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Goodbye Research In Motion. Hello BlackBerry! (And BB10)

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pure conjecture.

you're reaching hard, bro.

I think 1.3 million phones is a low ball number. I honestly think it is 2+ million from everything I have read.

As for the numbers, it's better to be approximately right than precisely wrong. That analyst who said 300,000 is both approximately and precisely wrong.

Conjecture is pulling one's numbers out of ones ass. This is more of an educated guess. See, I actually read about this stuff. And have for the past month. I know it's not 1 a day. I know that it's more than 2 a day. I know 8,9 or 10 a day is way overreaching. 3 is still a bit low. If anything ,that 5 should be a 4 or a 6. So, I went with 5. You know, being approximately right? if it is really 4 a day does it really matter? no.

Tell me though, what is your conjecture?
 
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the gs3 pre sold 9 million and good luck going up against the gs4 in the usa.

Samsung has said they have a target of 100 million for the gs4 and the gs3 is right about 60 million sold so far

Welcome to the USA, a collection of 5% of the world population.

As much as I want it to do well here, I just don't care. From a business standpoint, they could sell 0 phones here and be in very strong financial condition.

I'm personally getting one. And as an investor, it is becoming very clear that they are plenty enough to have it be considered an initial success.

Do me a favor though. When all your friends start seeing advertisements all over the USA and start talking about it, don't be shocked.
 
Welcome to the USA, a collection of 5% of the world population.

As much as I want it to do well here, I just don't care. From a business standpoint, they could sell 0 phones here and be in very strong financial condition.

I'm personally getting one. And as an investor, it is becoming very clear that they are plenty enough to have it be considered an initial success.

Do me a favor though. When all your friends start seeing advertisements all over the USA and start talking about it, don't be shocked.

yeah do us all a favor and stop pushing this pos cell on us and not taking any constructive criticism about it.

and Ill be the first to let you know when I start seeing friends ditch there iphones and androids for a cell that is 100% not catered after and is made for the corporate business market.
 
yeah do us all a favor and stop pushing this pos cell on us and not taking any constructive criticism about it.

and Ill be the first to let you know when I start seeing friends ditch there iphones and androids for a cell that is 100% not catered after and is made for the corporate business market.

Do you know what constructive criticism is?
 
Anyway, just looked over more info:
Rogers has 450 stores in Canada. I estimate that each got about 200 Z10s for the first week. Estimates are that they have been getting 120 or so more each week.

Now correct my math here or show me conflicting information that is more than just conjecture:
week 1: 200 sold
week 2: 120 sold
week 3: 120 sold

So, each rogers sold about 440 phones. Let's see here. 450 stores. So, Rogers alone sold 198,000 Z10s. Rogers is a big player though. Not all carriers sold that many.

When I say Canada probably sold 500K Z10s, it is an educated guess. yes, Rogers represents about 1/4 of Canadian carrier outlets but they are also one of the biggest carriers so I can't just take that 198K number and quadruple it. If I did that, the number would be more like 800K.

Everything I look at. No matter how I estimate it says that the UK and Canada combined probably sold 1.5 million Z10s so far. This is all consistent with estimates I have read about actual manufacturing. It's not going to be 500K. It's not going to be 5 million. It's probably going to be somewhere in between.
 
Uh no. If the Z10 fails hard in the US, then BB is dead.

Umm, no. That means that it failed in the USA.

This may be hard to grasp given your wealth of supporting information, but the USA is the only country in the world where there is an actual hatred for Blackberry. The other shocking tidbit. The brand is actually quite strong in most countries.
 
I think 1.3 million phones is a low ball number. I honestly think it is 2+ million from everything I have read.

As for the numbers, it's better to be approximately right than precisely wrong. That analyst who said 300,000 is both approximately and precisely wrong.

Conjecture is pulling one's numbers out of ones ass. This is more of an educated guess. See, I actually read about this stuff. And have for the past month. I know it's not 1 a day. I know that it's more than 2 a day. I know 8,9 or 10 a day is way overreaching. 3 is still a bit low. If anything ,that 5 should be a 4 or a 6. So, I went with 5. You know, being approximately right? if it is really 4 a day does it really matter? no.

Tell me though, what is your conjecture?

Except you're approximately wrong, too. "Everything you've read" with sales numbers, not production estimates, have been anecdotal evidence from front line sales at a few specific locations, and you're projecting that across 5000 stores without taking into account how widely ranging each store's sales are. Are all these stores located in urban areas where journalists are likely to interview? No, most aren't. Most are tiny kiosks in the middle of malls in the middle of small cities. So do they sell on average the same amount of phones? Probably not. I bet some of these places don't even sell 5 phones a day, total. You don't know, I don't know, and you definitely don't have an educated guess.

It'd be the same as me saying "I know 4 people out of my group of 40 friends who are planning to buy Z10 over the next month" and projecting that across Canada. Which would over 3 million sales. Absurd, isn't it? But I know it's not 1 friend, or 0 friend, or 5 or 6. Does it matter if its 3? No. "Approximately right", right?

No carrier has gone on record with any numbers; only wirelesswave have said it was outselling the GS3 and iphone 5. So, a Canadian branded phone on first week of release outselling, in Canada, the iphone which has been out since Oct, and the GS3, which is nearly a year old and has a successor announcing in less than a month? Shocking. But again, no numbers. And despite such news, every analyst have been cutting estimates. The only other positive outlook came out of the blackberry CEO - someone with an absolute interest to see the stock price go up.

That's why I said you were overreaching with those projections.

It's pretty apparent from your active replies, tone, and your self admittance that you're financially vested in blackberry doing well. So maybe you're just seeing everything through a filter, and why you're pushing this phone so hard despite not having one. I mean, you also think blackberry is worth $45 - contrary to what every analyst and trader in the world has thought for the last two years, and more than 3.5x its current trading price. I'd love to see your financial modelling and your basis to arrive at such numbers, and I hope it's not filled with the same "approximately right" projections that you've used to estimate current sales. Maybe you're actually onto something that all these analysts missed, but most likely not. I'm inclined to side with the analysts on this one.

This will be my last post on this subject barring any reasonable financial modelling out of you. Your bias is apparent and this whole thread is cancer.
 
Umm, no. That means that it failed in the USA.

This may be hard to grasp given your wealth of supporting information, but the USA is the only country in the world where there is an actual hatred for Blackberry. The other shocking tidbit. The brand is actually quite strong in most countries.

And it's world wide market shares have still dropped...........
 
Hmmm... I don't buy that at all. The key proving grounds are first world countries, not emerging markets.
The only reason BB even pretends to be relavent is because of emerging markets are still using old BB phones/buying them in mass quantities.
 
The only reason BB even pretends to be relavent is because of emerging markets are still using old BB phones/buying them in mass quantities.

if emerging markets are buying/using BB in mass quantities, it is clearly relevant in today's market then. it's not relevant in the US anymore though. but the US comprises a small percentage of today's market.
 
if emerging markets are buying/using BB in mass quantities, it is clearly relevant in today's market then. it's not relevant in the US anymore though. but the US comprises a small percentage of today's market.
Will BlackBerry be able to compete with FireFox's mobile OS, cheap Android handsets from ZTE/Huawei/Samsung, and the cheap Nokia Lumia Windows Phones and Nokia's Asha in emerging markets? And for how long? That is the question.
 
yeah do us all a favor and stop pushing this pos cell on us and not taking any constructive criticism about it.

and Ill be the first to let you know when I start seeing friends ditch there iphones and androids for a cell that is 100% not catered after and is made for the corporate business market.

I ditched my iPhone for the Z10. And it's a consumer phone that works well on the corporate networks. The whole idea is people bring these to work and then only have to carry 1 phone.
 
Unfortunately for Blackberry they're like 5 years too late. People en masse already switched to Android phones and iPhones for their one and only device.
Huh? It's not as if the Z10 is 5-year old tech being sold in 2013. It's a competitive 2013 phone. That doesn't automatically mean BB will be successful overall, but this "5 years too late" statement is hyperbole.

I ditched my iPhone for Android, and so far I haven't been thoroughly impressed. If a couple of apps I want showed up by 2014, I may ditch Android to go BlackBerry. Or I might stay with Android, or I may go back to the iPhone, but I'm certainly not wedded to either of them, esp. Android.
 
Huh? It's not as if the Z10 is 5-year old tech being sold in 2013. It's a competitive 2013 phone. That doesn't automatically mean BB will be successful overall, but this "5 years too late" statement is hyperbole.

I ditched my iPhone for Android, and so far I haven't been thoroughly impressed. If a couple of apps I want showed up by 2014, I may ditch Android to go BlackBerry. Or I might stay with Android, or I may go back to the iPhone, but I'm certainly not wedded to either of them, esp. Android.

It's not about the Z10 specifically, more BB's response. It took them ~5 years to come out with a phone like the Z10. That is what's pathetic and ended up costing them so much market share and money.
 
It's not about the Z10 specifically, more BB's response. It took them ~5 years to come out with a phone like the Z10. That is what's pathetic and ended up costing them so much market share and money.
Well, I haven't considered Android to even be in the running against iOS at the high end until ICS shipped. Everything before Android 4.0 just sucked too much.
 
Well, I haven't considered Android to even be in the running against iOS at the high end until ICS shipped. Everything before Android 4.0 just sucked too much.

The only thing that iOS had above android before 4.0 was a fully GPU accelerated UI.

Functionality was miles past iOS since Donut.
 
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