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Goodbye Research In Motion. Hello BlackBerry! (And BB10)

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dagamer34 said:
No one is going to buy a BB10 device instead of some other smartphone if it had a Cortex A15. This isn't Android.
Click to expand...

That's true. How many people here know the name of the model of the engine in their car? How many bought their car because of that specific engine?

Would you prefer a Corvette with an LT1 or an L98? None of us here probably care or know the difference, but go to a car forum and they'd be all over this.
 
dagamer34 said:
No one is going to buy a BB10 device instead of some other smartphone if it had a Cortex A15. This isn't Android.
Click to expand...

People who want fully inform themselves of the exact hw/sw differences between top Android/WP/iP will factor it in.
That may not represent the average smartphone user, but a smaller segment most definitely will.
 
jalyst said:
People who want fully inform themselves of the exact hw/sw differences between top Android/WP/iP will factor it in.
That may not represent the average smartphone user, but a smaller segment most definitely will.
Click to expand...

And most people will ignore them and get what they wanted anyways.

Tech boards are full of people who show the specs of a $2700 iMac and compare it to a $1500 Windows PC that is faster, then call everyone iSheep for paying for the iMac. It hasn't stopped people from buying iMacs much if at all.
 
silverpig said:
And most people will ignore them and get what they wanted anyways.

Tech boards are full of people who show the specs of a $2700 iMac and compare it to a $1500 Windows PC that is faster, then call everyone iSheep for paying for the iMac. It hasn't stopped people from buying iMacs much if at all.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what point you're making here, I simply stated that some people prefer to understand the similarities/differences in more depth.
 
BB needs a huge marketing scheme to make this successful. Consumers are sheep, they buy what they see. They don't care about hardware specs. They care about whether it's trendy and what it looks like when they pick it up. If BB can market it, then maybe people will buy it.

That said, I bet BB marketing will fail and they will continue to stay irrelevant. Too many competitors with more capital.
 
silverpig said:
That's true. How many people here know the name of the model of the engine in their car? How many bought their car because of that specific engine?

Would you prefer a Corvette with an LT1 or an L98? None of us here probably care or know the difference, but go to a car forum and they'd be all over this.
Click to expand...

But don't you think the phone would feel faster and potentially have a longer life span if they put a modern 2013 soc in it instead of last year's soc? That processor is already a year old, it's kinda like losing a year off the life span of the phone for apparently no good reason.

It's not like this is a budget phone if those $650 prices are accurate.

Again, I totally realize the average Joe has no idea about this. But unfortunately I do, and can't help but be surprised and dismayed.
 
Ravynmagi said:
It's not like this is a budget phone if those $650 prices are accurate.
Click to expand...
Official pricing at one of the Canadian carriers (Koodo) is $550. It's $600 at my carrier (Fido).

Ravynmagi said:
But don't you think the phone would feel faster and potentially have a longer life span if they put a modern 2013 soc in it instead of last year's soc?
Click to expand...
Not really. It would just be higher cost, and potentially worse battery life. I stopped worrying once the CPUs hit 1.x dual-core. I'm more concerned about memory and battery life now. If the OS lags, I blame the OS, not the CPU.

grkM3 said:
well rim stock took a 6% drop this morning,looks like investors don't like the device
Click to expand...
More than 6%, but what I heard on the business news was that the investors were not so concerned with the device's specs, but more concerned about the fact that it's launching later in the US.

---

P.S. It's pronounced zed-ten everywhere in the world, except the US, where it's pronounced zee-ten.
 
Ravynmagi said:
But don't you think the phone would feel faster and potentially have a longer life span if they put a modern 2013 soc in it instead of last year's soc? That processor is already a year old, it's kinda like losing a year off the life span of the phone for apparently no good reason.

It's not like this is a budget phone if those $650 prices are accurate.

Again, I totally realize the average Joe has no idea about this. But unfortunately I do, and can't help but be surprised and dismayed.
Click to expand...

People don't buy it knowing how it will perform in 3 years. They don't care either because it'll be time for a new one.

The original iPhone was "fast enough". The 3G was "fast enough". By the time the 4S came out, the 3G was slow as crap, yet people still buy the 4S, despite the knowledge that in a year the 5 will come out.

If you can pick it up, switch between apps, swipe the app pages back and forth, and it seems okay, that's "fast enough" considering how most people buy their phones.
 
OK, this is definitely not what I was expecting to hear:
@anandshimpi said:
@nkj @nerdtalker BlackBerry is using both, depends on region apparently
Click to expand...
bizarre...
@nerdtalker said:
So @anandshimpi did a great job confirming, Z10 hardware platform varies by region - LTE has MSM8960, non has OMAP4470.
Click to expand...
 
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Ravynmagi said:
Can you explain why you think a phone with a TI 4470 dual core A9 will feel as fast and hold up as long as a dual core Krait or A15?

I don't understand why you would disagree.
Click to expand...
First, I'm still not convinced A15 is appropriate unless you add A7 in the mix. Like I said, battery life is just as important as compute performance IMO. In fact, I'd say it's more important once you hit a certain performance level.

Second, some (but not all) of Krait's advantages came from smaller process tech and higher clock speeds. However, we already knew the CPU there was 1.5 GHz, regardless of if it was A9 or something else. A9 at 1.5 GHz (your TI 4470) is not the fastest but it is no slouch either.

Third, I think the effective life of a smartphone really is about 2 years. Anything beyond that is a bonus. I don't buy phones with that kind of future proofing, but if that's going to be a consideration I'd argue that memory is probably more important. Despite this for some strange reason for the Nexus 7 for example people always talk about its 4-core CPU, without mentioning its 1 GB RAM limitation. Which is better future proofed in your opinion hardware wise, the BB10 with 2 GB RAM and dual-core CPU, or the Nexus 7 with 1 GB RAM and quad-core CPU?

It's analogous to computers. After you reach a certain point, the CPU is no longer the limiting factor. It's the memory. Indeed, I'm typing this on a G4 iBook right now. It generally works fine for basic AnandTech browsing, but every so often it slows to a crawl... because it runs out of memory and has to page out to disk.
 
Eug said:
First, I'm still not convinced A15 is appropriate unless you add A7 in the mix. Like I said, battery life is just as important as compute performance IMO. In fact, I'd say it's more important once you hit a certain performance level.

Second, some (but not all) of Krait's advantages came from smaller process tech and higher clock speeds. However, we already knew the CPU there was 1.5 GHz, regardless of if it was A9 or something else. A9 at 1.5 GHz (your TI 4470) is not the fastest but it is no slouch either.

Third, I think the effective life of a smartphone really is about 2 years. Anything beyond that is a bonus. I don't buy phones with that kind of future proofing, but if that's going to be a consideration I'd argue that memory is probably more important. Despite this for some strange reason for the Nexus 7 for example people always talk about its 4-core CPU, without mentioning its 1 GB RAM limitation. Which is better future proofed in your opinion hardware wise, the BB10 with 2 GB RAM and dual-core CPU, or the Nexus 7 with 1 GB RAM and quad-core CPU?

It's analogous to computers. After you reach a certain point, the CPU is no longer the limiting factor. It's the memory. Indeed, I'm typing this on a G4 iBook right now. It generally works fine for basic AnandTech browsing, but every so often it slows to a crawl... because it runs out of memory and has to page out to disk.
Click to expand...

You seem really worried about A15's battery performance. I'm not sure where this is coming from. I haven't seen that it's an issue.

Regarding 2 years being the life of a phone. Since we like to use the "general public" as an excuse, I think the general public does keep their smart phones longer than that.

It's an okay phone. But the 4470 is already a year old. And while it works great for BB10 I imagine, how about BB11 next year (or whatever their release schedule ends up being)?

I'm sure the 4470 is "good enough", I'm not arguing that it isn't. I just don't see why a phone of this cost isn't using something more modern. A Krait or A15 will hold up longer than an A9, because the A9 is last generation technology. We are still quite a ways off from the soc not being a limiting factor. There is plenty of performance still to be gained from faster mobile processors.
 
silverpig said:
People don't buy it knowing how it will perform in 3 years. They don't care either because it'll be time for a new one.

The original iPhone was "fast enough". The 3G was "fast enough". By the time the 4S came out, the 3G was slow as crap, yet people still buy the 4S, despite the knowledge that in a year the 5 will come out.

If you can pick it up, switch between apps, swipe the app pages back and forth, and it seems okay, that's "fast enough" considering how most people buy their phones.
Click to expand...

Well damn. Why is RIM in such bad shape when Blackberry users apparently have very low expectations? 🙂
 
Ravynmagi said:
I'm sure the 4470 is "good enough", I'm not arguing that it isn't. I just don't see why a phone of this cost isn't using something more modern. A Krait or A15 will hold up longer than an A9, because the A9 is last generation technology. We are still quite a ways off from the soc not being a limiting factor. There is plenty of performance still to be gained from faster mobile processors.
Click to expand...

Why do you keep asserting it is using only 4470?
Latest info suggest that your part of the world (and possibly others that are getting LTE version) is getting Krait/A15.
 
jalyst said:
Why do you keep asserting it is using only 4470?
Latest info suggest that your part of the world (and possibly others that are getting LTE version) is getting Krait/A15.
Click to expand...

Because that is what everyone is this thread is saying. So I'm just going along with the discussion. I haven't seen any solid information on what processor it has, but people in this thread are saying 4470 and I'm just giving my opinion that it seems like odd choice if true.
 
Eug said:
People are pessimistic about BlackBerry, but I'm even more pessimistic about Windows Phone succeeding.
Click to expand...

Sorry, today isn't my "argue with Eug" day. Haha. But I kinda think Microsoft has been finally doing mobility right or at least significantly better than the past. I'm not even close to switching to Windows Phone 8 yet. But with Microsoft's money and it's integration with it's desktop OS and gaming console, I feel like Microsoft has a better chance and turning Windows Phone 8 into a strong third player than Blackberry does.
 
Eug said:
First, I'm still not convinced A15 is appropriate unless you add A7 in the mix. Like I said, battery life is just as important as compute performance IMO. In fact, I'd say it's more important once you hit a certain performance level.

Second, some (but not all) of Krait's advantages came from smaller process tech and higher clock speeds. However, we already knew the CPU there was 1.5 GHz, regardless of if it was A9 or something else. A9 at 1.5 GHz (your TI 4470) is not the fastest but it is no slouch either.

Third, I think the effective life of a smartphone really is about 2 years. Anything beyond that is a bonus. I don't buy phones with that kind of future proofing, but if that's going to be a consideration I'd argue that memory is probably more important. Despite this for some strange reason for the Nexus 7 for example people always talk about its 4-core CPU, without mentioning its 1 GB RAM limitation. Which is better future proofed in your opinion hardware wise, the BB10 with 2 GB RAM and dual-core CPU, or the Nexus 7 with 1 GB RAM and quad-core CPU?

It's analogous to computers. After you reach a certain point, the CPU is no longer the limiting factor. It's the memory. Indeed, I'm typing this on a G4 iBook right now. It generally works fine for basic AnandTech browsing, but every so often it slows to a crawl... because it runs out of memory and has to page out to disk.
Click to expand...

Remember. Android is the most battery inefficient out of iOS and Windows Phone. That's why you're worried. 1st gen LTE devices did terribly on Android, but on Windows Phone I can get 2 days of battery life easily. I'd say my Windows Phone compares to my iPhone 5. They don't really sync and pull much data so it's not a killer.
 
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