Goodbye 2.4c, need advice on building an E6600 system!

[kastachu]

Background:
I've been using an old 2.4c system for the past 3-4 years. After hearing about the C2D a few months ago, I did some research here and there, salivating at the thought of building a new system. My current system is as follows:

Pentium 4 2.4c (oc'd to 3.0)
2x512 Corsair CMX512-4000
Abit IC7-Max3 Motherboard
2x Raptor 36gb (Raid0)
ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 128MB
2x Samsung 191T 19" LCD

This system has served me quite well throughout the last 3-4 years of college. However, the various fans on the system have been going to crap lately, and are making a ridiculously large amount of noise. Also, my system has been crashing more and more frequently lately. I decided that this winter would be a nice time to finally upgrade. I use my current PC for a wide array of tasks. My main use for my system is image-manipulation (Photoshop), 3d animation (Maya and 3DSMax), and video editing (Premiere Pro and After Effects). I play games casually (only DotA pretty much), but this is mostly because my current system can't seem to run any of the latest games. I'd like to be playing Oblivion, Rainbow 6 Vegas, etc.


Shopping List
EDIT: Updated Thursday, Dec. 14th @ 7:36pm PST

Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 Conroe 2.4GHz Retail $309.00
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819115003
ASUS P5B Deluxe Motherboard Retail $182.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131045
BUFFALO Firestix 2GB (2x1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) - Retail $244.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820150054
Western Digital Raptor X WD1500AHFD 150GB OEM $199.99 ($229.99-$30rebate)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822136011
Creative SB Audigy2 ZS Platinum 70SB035000003 PCI - Retail $82.99 ($182.99-$100rebate)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16829102163
Thermaltake W0106RU Complies with ATX 12V 2.2 & EPS 12V version 700W $144.99 (169.99-$25rebate)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817153039
SAMSUNG 18X DVD±R, LightScribe IDE Model SH-S182M/BEBN - OEM $31.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16827151136
Thermaltake CL-P0114 CPU Cooler with Heatsink - Retail $43.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835106061
COOLER MASTER Centurion 532 RC-532-SKN1 ATX Mid Tower Case - Retail $54.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811119094
Scythe S-FLEX SFF21E 120mm Case Fan - Retail $19.38($9.69x2)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835185005
Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound - OEM $5.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835100007

eVGA 768-P2-N831-AR GeForce 8800GTX 768MB $629.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814130072
24 in Dell 2407FPW Ultrasharp? Flat Panel Monitor Wide $679.15

Sub-Total:
$1321.29 (missing tax, shipping, monitor, video card)
$1951.28 (missing tax, shipping, monitor)
$2630.43 (missing tax, shipping)


Wrapping it up...
I also added the sound card to my build as I think I can afford to get something better than Realtek'97. The two extra 120mm fans are for: 1) rear exhaust, since the case only comes with one fan, 2) replace stock front fan with Scythe (less noise). As the P5B Deluxe only has one IDE connector, I'll be able to use that for the Samsung DVD drive and a spare 200GB old IDE storage drive. I'm pretty happy that the "full" build with monitor and sweet video card turned out to be around $3000 after tax and shipping. After reading that Dell plans to release a 27" LCD (same resolution as the 24") in Jan. 2007, I think I'll wait on the LCD purchase. That means the full system with everything I possibly need clocks in at under 2000 (before tax and shipping). Will probably make the purchase pretty soon, as I think I figured out a good swap for the 500w PSU I had chosen before. Now I just need to double check to make sure that DX10.1 isn't gonna make a $629.99 card obsolete in 6 months!

 

[xitshsif]

Drop the raptor. There are many drives these days that offer almost the same level of performance for much much cheaper.

Wait on RAM (if you can). I bough that exact product (CORSAIR XMS2 2 x 1GB) over the summer for $160 after $40 rebate.

As for the CPU, go with the E6300 or E6400 and OC it, seeing as you're comfortable with OCing. Save at least $100 that way.

 

[hofan41]

so why is it that you're willing to spend $300 for overclocking RAM, but not $50 for a better heatsink?

granted I have no experience with overclocking my e6600 on its stock heatsink, but it doesn't make any sense to not get a heatsink with better cooling properties if you are spending so much already to get the best overclocking components.

anyways, depending on what stepping/individual properties of your chip, ive heard of some people reaching 3.6 ghz e6600 on stock.

 

[kastachu]

Any recommendations on particular HD's that are in the same tier of performance as the Raptor? I'm comfortable with overclocking, but in the event that I get really unlucky and get a poor-performing chip, I would like to at least have the speed/extra L2 of the E6600. However, if it makes the difference in being able to afford an LCD, I'll look more deeply into the E6300.

As for the expensive ram, I'm actually not quite too sure what ram to buy. I've read conflicting reports on people who are getting screaming speeds outta their stock HSF+E6600+PC2 6400. Is there an average level of OC for a stock HSF? Or a particular HSF that seems to be very popular amongst E6600 OC'ers? The only reason I am hesitant on replacing my HSF is that it is the one component that has always made me nervous whenever I build a new system.

"Did I put too much thermal paste? Did I put enough? Is the chip slightly crooked? Is the fan slightly crooked? How come this huge HSF doesn't fit in my case? I have to mod my case to get this to fit?!"

However, I'd also like to note that a reasonable level of silence is another aim of this system. Right now, the "Awesome Blossom" shaped HSF I have on my P4 is audible even when I'm playing MP3's. There seem to be no shortage of horribly ugly cases, but I think I've narrowed it down to a few Lian-Li's and some of the Coolermasters - looking for something cheap and quiet.

Still doing research but all help and information is appreciated, thanks.

 

[Genx87]

It will be hard to find a drive short of the 10-15K SCSI drives that are in the same tier as the Raptors. That argument imo comes to down to cost\GB and if you can justify the increase in performance for the vastly increased cost per GB of the Raptor.

I have been using Raptors for the past 2.5 years, my latest 6600 build has th enext 16MB 74GB version. The drive never disappoints.

If you are worried about space you can still pickup a 300GB drive for like 100 bucks /shrug.

 

[Roguestar]

Seconding get an aftermarket heatsink. Pick up the Thermaltake Big Typhoon, Zalman 9500/9700, Artic Freezer 7 Pro or Scythe Ninja.

 

[xitshsif]

I'm running an e6600 at 3.2GHz with stock HSF. Rock solid.

 

[kastachu]

Edit: Check OP for most recent shopping list.

Ok, I've decided to stick with the Raptor, as after using them for the past few years, I don't think I could go back to a normal HD. For extra storage, I'll hopefully able to use my old 200gb Maxtor IDE. I picked a pretty generic optical drive that seemed to be popular among system builders. Am I cutting myself short in terms of PSU here? After some more reading, it seems that anyone running a 8800 has a 700-1000W PSU. I don't plan to add any componenets to this PC after it's built - will the PSU I have chosen be sufficient for my needs? If not, any other better choices that are also quiet?

As for the heatsinks... wow. The four that Roguestar recommended look ridiculous! I thought my old Zalman copper HSF for my P4 was absurd, but these HSF's are like the size of half the motherboard. Is there a particular HSF that is best recommended for an E6600 system? I'm mostly looking for a very quiet HSF - even my current Zalman is kinda noisy. After some quick research, it seems the Thermaltake's beastly HSF seems to be a popular choice. From the design of this HSF, wouldn't it be a necessity to have an open side vent on your case over the area where this fan is blowing air? I also have some left over Artic Silver 5 from 3-4 years ago, should I just buy a new tube or does the stuff stay ok?

As for the cases... I was wondering if there are significant differences in airflow and temperature between an aircooled Mid Tower ATX system versus a Full Tower ATX system. I'd rather stick with a Mid Tower cause I simply don't buy that many drives. However, I saw my friends 8800 yesterday, and the thing is ginormous. I don't think it would even fit in my current Mid-ATX case. Also, that Thermaltake HSF looks like it might require a certain case, or some case modding? Are there cases that are particularly quiet and able to accomodate both a 8800GTX and a ThermalTake CL-P0114?

Also, in the event that I chose to limit myself to a stock HSF 3ghz~ OC with the E6600, how much money could I save by purchasing lesser ram? Or rather, what is the cost of the cheapest ram that will reliably and safely get me somewhere above 3ghz, while using stock HSF. Just curious to see how much money I can save here if I decide I don't need those last 500~ mhz.

 

[Roguestar]

The heatsinks I recommended may look silly but they'll do the job well!

By the way, get this RAM instead of the corsair: it's overpriced and doesn't use Micron D9 chips any more, it seems. The Buffalo Firestix do use Micron D9 and are cheaper and will overclock easier. You should be able to get 3.6Ghz no problem with that RAM.

The Thermaltake and 8800 don't need larger cases, to the best of my knowledge, they're just a bit big looking .

 

[compressor]

Here is the system I just put together last week.
My needs were similiar to yours.
This P5B-E has on board firewire and 10 USB ports vs the P5b Deluxe which has no firewire and 8 USB ports.
Something to consider since you are doing video editing.
CPU cooler to aid in overclocking.
The Corsair PSU is sweet and modular.
The 3 Seagate 320G drives give me plenty of space and I can Raid 0 them for speed.
The video card is a compromise between price and performance.
I don't game much but it will handle it if I do.
And I love the case with its top USB and firewire ports.
Dual layer DVD burner and media reader card complete the package.

All shipped from New Egg for $1377.

ASUS P5B-E
G.SKILL (2 x 1GB) DDR2 800
Core 2 Duo e6600
ARCTIC COOLING Freezer 7 Pro CPU cooler
eVGA 256-P2-N615-TX GeForce 7600GT 256MB
Three Seagate Barracuda ST3320620AS (Perpendicular Recording) 320GB
(1 for system, 2 for Raid 0)
COOLER MASTER Centurion 532 case
SAMSUNG IDE Multi-DVD (DL) Burner With 12X DVD-RAM
CORSAIR HX520w ATX12V v2.2 and EPS12V 2.91 520W
MITSUMI 3.5" Internal USB 2.0 digital card reader with Floppy Drive

 

[bob4432]

have a look at this -
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...atid=28&threadid=1966035&enterthread=y

enjoy

also, please edit your first post to reflect changes. not everybody will scroll down to read what you changed, assuming you did this in the original post.

 

[kastachu]

Ok, I've edited the OP to make note of changes I have made throughout the thread. Most importantly, I think I'm gonna stall on the video card for now, as described in OP.

 

[bob4432]

Originally posted by: kastachu
Ok, I've edited the OP to make note of changes I have made throughout the thread. Most importantly, I think I'm gonna stall on the video card for now, as described in OP.

i wouldn't say this is the worst time to buy, other than ram prices being high, things are pretty good. imho, i would go a 6400 and save some $$$ since you can o/c pretty easy with the c2d cpu, and getting a 6400 to 6600 performance is nearly guaranteed.

 

[compressor]

It doesn't matter when you buy because there is always someting new or better coming
out. We all suffer through buyers remorse.

But again, since you are doing video editing you should consider the P5B-E
with its onboard firewire. It is considered the replacement for the P5B Deluxe.
Go to ASUS' website and it will let you do a side by side comparison.
Of course you could add a firewire card.

Regarding the 6600 vs 6400, the extra cache does help in encoding and rendering
video.

p.s. the 7600 GT I got from New Egg was $109 after rebate.

 

[Roguestar]

True, true. There's always a deal on the day after you place your order, there's always something new out the week after you put it all together.

Go for it and hope for the best . You could also go for the 8800GTS whenever the prices come down; it's no GTX but it's still amazing.

 

[bob4432]

Originally posted by: compressor
Regarding the 6600 vs 6400, the extra cache does help in encoding and rendering
video.

do you have numbers on how much it helps? i have been curious of this but didn't think it really amounted to much, especially and additonal $100 for the cpu, but i could be wrong. do you have any comparisons betwenn both the 6400 and 6600 clocked at the same speed encoding into mpeg2/4 with different encoders?

i would really like to see these as i am starting to do more xvid encoding - putting my dvds into nice small 450MB packages so i can take them with me on the laptop. with rig in sig it is taking me about 1hr (1:02, 1:03 or so) do do a movie that is 1:30 long - this is a two pass xvid encoding using the full version of fair use wizard 2.5. if i could substantially lower this i may definately look into moving over as time is usually of the importance.

 

[kastachu]

I think I'm going to stick with the E6600 - my reasoning may not be sound, but it is partially because I bought a 2.4c and now it doesn't OC as well as it used to. If I had just purchased a slightly higher clocked chip, I probably wouldn't have as many issues. Also, that extra L2 cache's gotta do something right!?

As for the video card, now I kind of just want to get the 8800GTX. It'll probably come down to a last-minute thing. Seems like a waste to get such a nice new system and not get a nice new video card to go along with it. As for biting the bullet and purchasing the system, I've decided I'll be doing it pretty soon actually (within a week or two), as just today I had to lower my OC due to overheating on my current system.

Originally posted by: compressor
But again, since you are doing video editing you should consider the P5B-E
with its onboard firewire. It is considered the replacement for the P5B Deluxe.
Go to ASUS' website and it will let you do a side by side comparison.
Of course you could add a firewire card.

compressor: From what I can see on NewEgg's site, the P5B Deluxe has a firewire port on the back; do I have to purchase an extra controller card or something to make use of it? You also say it's the successor to the P5B Deluxe, but it's 32 bucks cheaper on NewEgg? Does it OC just as well as the P5B Deluxe? What's the lowdown on this motherboard? Thanks!

 

[compressor]

do you have numbers on how much it helps? i have been curious of this but didn't think it really amounted to much, especially and additonal $100 for the cpu, but i could be wrong. do you have any comparisons betwenn both the 6400 and 6600 clocked at the same speed encoding into mpeg2/4 with different encoders?

Here is a link from a site where they
downclocked a 6600 and ran some tests.

Here is another where they compare at native clock speeds.

And of course, here are some links from this very board.
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2802&p=4

and
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...atid=28&threadid=1963455&enterthread=y

And there are links within these links.

It does make a bit of difference.

 

[compressor]

compressor: From what I can see on NewEgg's site, the P5B Deluxe has a firewire port on the back; do I have to purchase an extra controller card or something to make use of it? You also say it's the successor to the P5B Deluxe, but it's 32 bucks cheaper on NewEgg? Does it OC just as well as the P5B Deluxe? What's the lowdown on this motherboard? Thanks!

There is a firewire port on back and an internal one on the board.
Nothing else required. (well, a firewire hard drive, camera, video deck etc. )
If you go with the COOLER MASTER Centurion 532 case it comes with
an additional firewire port with cable on the front. Just plug it in to the board
and you are ready to go.
Simple and convenient.

I did have an issue when I updated the bios to the latest. I had to change the
memory voltage from "Auto" to "2.0 volts" to get it to post
with the GSkill memory I purchased because the memory was rated 1.8-2.0v.

I read many reviews and asked lots of questions here and elsewhere before
finally deciding on the P5B-E over the P5B Deluxe. (and others)
To clarify the AnandTech article below says the P5B-E is the replacment for
the P5B (non-deluxe). My bad but not that it really matters. The board rocks.

I have had it up and running for over week at stock speed and have completed
all the benchmarks and torture tests with no problems.
I am now getting ready to OC. I am new to OCing so I am still doing my homework
but it seems as if it should be no problem.
(Other than me understanding what the heck I'm doing)

Even at stock speed it blows away my mpeg2 encoding times from my old system
using TMPGENC with no tweaks.
My P4 3.0 Gig - encode 1 minute DV file takes 2 minutes
My e6600 - encode 1 minute DV file takes 30 seconds

The side by side comparison at ASUS site helped a lot in breaking it down.
ASUS Comparison
Just select which boards and compare.

Here are some links courtesy of this beloved board.

Second board reviewed in this article.
Intel P965: Mid-Range Performance Sector Roundup

ASUS P5B-E: P965 stepping C1 versus C2, Round One

Trying to Overclock the P5B-E

P5B-E Up and Running

 

[kastachu]

Wrapping it up...
I also added the sound card to my build as I think I can afford to get something better than Realtek'97. The two extra 120mm fans are for: 1) rear exhaust, since the case only comes with one fan, 2) replace stock front fan with Scythe (less noise). As the P5B Deluxe only has one IDE connector, I'll be able to use that for the Samsung DVD drive and a spare 200GB old IDE storage drive. I'm pretty happy that the "full" build with monitor and sweet video card turned out to be around $3000 after tax and shipping. After reading that Dell plans to release a 27" LCD (same resolution as the 24") in Jan. 2007, I think I'll wait on the LCD purchase. That means the full system with everything I possibly need clocks in at under 2000 (before tax and shipping). Will probably make the purchase pretty soon, as I think I figured out a good swap for the 500w PSU I had chosen before. Now I just need to double check to make sure that DX10.1 isn't gonna make a $629.99 card obsolete in 6 months!

 

[bendixG15]

Originally posted by: compressor

Even at stock speed it blows away my mpeg2 encoding times from my old system
using TMPGENC with no tweaks.
My P4 3.0 Gig - encode 1 minute DV file takes 2 minutes
My e6600 - encode 1 minute DV file takes 30 seconds

I find that hard to believe......4 times faster .....no way

 

[BadThad]

I'd personally pick different ram, check out this:

Patriot PC2 5300

I have the 800MHz version of this ram, I belive it's the same thing, just lower voltage. A friend of mine has the PC2 5300 and he oc's it to around 1000MHz with 2.2v. The 800MHz POSTed on my new P5B Deluxe last night, no problem with the shipping BIOS, unlike some other mfgs whose ram won't post at BIOS default voltage.

 

[Hulk]

Originally posted by: compressor
Here is the system I just put together last week.
My needs were similiar to yours.
This P5B-E has on board firewire and 10 USB ports vs the P5b Deluxe which has no firewire and 8 USB ports.
Something to consider since you are doing video editing.
CPU cooler to aid in overclocking.
The Corsair PSU is sweet and modular.
The 3 Seagate 320G drives give me plenty of space and I can Raid 0 them for speed.
The video card is a compromise between price and performance.
I don't game much but it will handle it if I do.
And I love the case with its top USB and firewire ports.
Dual layer DVD burner and media reader card complete the package.

All shipped from New Egg for $1377.

ASUS P5B-E
G.SKILL (2 x 1GB) DDR2 800
Core 2 Duo e6600
ARCTIC COOLING Freezer 7 Pro CPU cooler
eVGA 256-P2-N615-TX GeForce 7600GT 256MB
Three Seagate Barracuda ST3320620AS (Perpendicular Recording) 320GB
(1 for system, 2 for Raid 0)
COOLER MASTER Centurion 532 case
SAMSUNG IDE Multi-DVD (DL) Burner With 12X DVD-RAM
CORSAIR HX520w ATX12V v2.2 and EPS12V 2.91 520W
MITSUMI 3.5" Internal USB 2.0 digital card reader with Floppy Drive

Actually the P5B-E uses the VIA firewire chipset and the P5B Deluxe DOES indeed have firewire, AND it uses the TI chipset, which video editors strongly prefer.

 

[bob4432]

Originally posted by: bendixG15

Originally posted by: compressor

Even at stock speed it blows away my mpeg2 encoding times from my old system
using TMPGENC with no tweaks.
My P4 3.0 Gig - encode 1 minute DV file takes 2 minutes
My e6600 - encode 1 minute DV file takes 30 seconds

I find that hard to believe......4 times faster .....no way

i don't find it hard to believe at all. using the encoding setup i use - fairuse wizard i got a huge benefit from going from a 2.8 @ 3.0 P4 northwood to my stock opteron 144, then the o/c to 2.5 on the 144 was an even wider spread, then the move to a stock 3800 wa wider to what i am at now with my 3800 @ 2.55GHz.

there is portion during the encoding with fairuse where i get 100+fps, where a buddy of mine with a 3GHz P4 gets 20-30fps - with total encoding time for me being around 1hr to his being 3-4hrs - same movie, same settings.

being that the c2d series is even more efficient than the a64 line, this is expected.