Good setup for a heavy graphics and game development computer

[uOpt]

Originally posted by: Orre

Originally posted by: Arcanedeath
Nothing is wrong w/ your system if you want top of the line, but as CheesePoofs suggested you could go w/ slightly lesser parts and not lose that much performance but save tons of cash. as an FYI I'd go w/ only 2GB of Ram as 4 sticks forces you to go to a 2T CMD rate which is a bad thing, otherwise everything looks good.

Edit: also as an FYI I would not do raid 5 unless you have a card w/ write cache, it's write performance w/out a cacheing controler is truely aweful (worse than a single drive in most cases) I'd suggest raid 0+1 if your going w/ 4 drives or add an Areca ARC-1120 (broadcom based) card or LSI Logic Megaraid based Sata raid card w/ at least 64mb of cache.

So if i choose to change the raid controller card to a Promise SATA150 Fasttrak RAID SX4M 64MB i would be a wise man?

And i guess 4gb of ram is overkill, but 2gb i need, that is what i have right now and some of our inhouse apps need 2gb ram to run. I'm currently looking at these:

4x 512mb - OCZ EL DDR PC-5000 Dual Channel Platinum DFI nF4 Special

2x 1gb - OCZ DDR PC-3200 2GB Dual Channel

Someone said that useing all 4 slots is a bad idea.... but they are alot faster? right?

The PC5000 RAM is ony faster if you overclock, otherwise it is used as PC3200. I don't think you want to do that on a development machine. And same thing, using 4 slots in a socket 939 (at least before Venice) sets you back at PC2700 as a starting point, no matter what your chips do.

I don't have experience with recent RAID controller (doing software RAID exclusively), but before getting one you want to watch the details very closely and spend 2 days hunting down forums and mailing lists of people who use that controller.

 

[uOpt]

Originally posted by: Orre
Thanx for the good advises.... and no, the price isn't an issue, i'm getting it all for free. *yeeeha* Thats why i'm even considering 4gb of ram... because it's free.. But i wont take it if it makes my computer slower of course!. That would be stupid.

So the changes so far will be:

1. Look for another Raid controller card that have at least 64mb cache
2. Go for 2gb of ram instead of 4gb. Any suggestions for a 2gb ram setup?
3. Consider antoher case, Tsunami sux
4. Go for AMD Athlon64 FX-55 2600MHz or an Dual Opteron system to take full advantage of the SLI conected Ultra cards
5. Change to Segate disks because RAID5 doesn't use the 16mb cache on the Maxtor disks anyways?
6. Go for OCZ Powerstream PSU 520W EU ATX because 600W is overkill

did i forget anything?

I think you want a socket 940 system, but that might be hard to couple with SLI. I don't know what the status of the Tyan K8WE and its SLI capabilities is.

Socket 940 gives you the freedom to do whatever the heck you want with RAM. Double capacity sImms - no problem. Mainboard with 6 or 8 slots - no problem. Filling all slots - no problem. But keep in mind many 940 booards are still picky about which RAM to get. Obviously you need registered and probably ECC (which you should want anyway), but even within that, if you can get RAM certified for your mainboard.

The FX is only better for overclocking. The 0.2 GHz extra sound nice but benchmarks indicate it doesn't do much when not overclocked and on PC3200.

I recommended against the Maxtor because they broke for me, and storagereview.com agrees. The cache will be useful with a RAID. Write cache needs in theory to be turned off for any kind of serious computing but with most IDE drives that is not sustainable, they are just too slow.

And if you ever develop multithreaded code you want a SMP machine, because it deadlocks much faster on bad code.

 

[Orre]

Anyone have some experience of these Raid controllers?

Adaptec AAR-2410SA SATA RAID 4Ch/64MB Kit

Promise SATA150 Fasttrak RAID SX4M 64MB

None of them is PCI-X so they should work on most motherboards... right?

 

[sandorski]

SLI-----Only works in Software that has been specifically coded to use SLI. Again I reiterate, make sure your Apps can use SLI Video Cards before buying a SLI setup. Otherwise you'll end up with a vidcard doing nothing and a bunch of money wasted.

 

[Orre]

Originally posted by: sandorski
SLI-----Only works in Software that has been specifically coded to use SLI. Again I reiterate, make sure your Apps can use SLI Video Cards before buying a SLI setup. Otherwise you'll end up with a vidcard doing nothing and a bunch of money wasted.

Thanx... i don't know if 3ds max uses the SLI setup, but otherwise it works like just one card? right? ... the stuff we make at the company supports SLI setup, thats why i want it... and, it's free..

 

[MobiusPizza]

Originally posted by: Orre
Anyone have some experience of these Raid controllers?

Adaptec AAR-2410SA SATA RAID 4Ch/64MB Kit

Promise SATA150 Fasttrak RAID SX4M 64MB

None of them is PCI-X so they should work on most motherboards... right?

They uses PCI-X
"32-Bit/66MHz PCI 2.2 interface"
All RAID 5 adaptors wwith XOR engine built in I've heard of REQUIRES PCI-X
Even if you find one that don't, the 33Mhz PCI is going to be a bottleneck for performance

As I've mentioned, you ought to setup a server platform. If you are getting a server Tyran board they would have PCI-X slots anyway so you don't have to worry

I don't quite understand you seems to insist on getting desktop components even you are trying to build a workstation. All workstations uses server-class equipments for obvious reasons. Don't use GeForce series, they are not designed for workstation graphics. Use Socket 940 and Opteron Processors, and ECC Ram

 

[Twsmit]

Like most of the guys stated. There are a bunch of problems with this setup. First of all you ahve created some sort of hybrid gaming monster and combined it with peices from a workstation/server.

I would do the following.

-Either go with a HT P4 or dual opterons (or dual core from intel or AMD if you can wait for them)
-Smaller PSU
-If you go A64 or Opteron make sure you have the E revision so that you can use the 4 memory slots @ DDR400
-you probably dont need the raid, but its probably better to get OEM HDD's to save cash if they are cheaper. Also the 16MB cache is a waste if its costing more than 8MB varieties. Speed increase is minimal for the increased cost.
-Video is fine, but if you dont game, its a waste.
-Raid controller will not fit on the mobo, no PCI-X slots
-Case is not ideal for this, kind of a cheapo plastic case IMO.
-mobo is fine, but you may want an opteron board so that you can get a PCI-X slot.


EDIT: Personally i think all you need is a solid i915 mobo and 600 series P4 or a nice NF4 Ultra and a regular A64, and a regular setup. Getting all this 4 gigs of ram and raid 5 seems like overkill unless you really know what you are doing.

If you are serious about getting parts like this, then look into a workstation board, and an opteron (dual core if possible or dual socket)

It just seems weird you are pciking some parts then maiting them with a gaming mobo, GPU and video card.

 

[MobiusPizza]

Originally posted by: Twsmit
-Video is fine, but if you dont game, its a waste.

It's not a waste; rather it's Insufficient.
This guy is trying to develop games and heavy graphics. I have never seen anyone using a gaming card for that purpose. He ought to use workstation graphic carrds. The Nvidia Quadro FX series and ATi FireGL series are there for this purpose. They are much more powerful, reliable and percise

 

[Twsmit]

Originally posted by: AnnihilatorX

Originally posted by: Twsmit
-Video is fine, but if you dont game, its a waste.

It's not a waste; rather it's Insufficient.
This guy is trying to develop games and heavy graphics. I have never seen anyone using a gaming card for that purpose. He ought to use workstation graphic carrds. The Nvidia Quadro FX series and ATi FireGL series are there for this purpose. They are much more powerful, reliable and percise

Yeah i would agree with that. See my edit. He needs to make up his mind if he wants a gaming mahine or a real workstation, because right now the system seems very confused....

 

[MobiusPizza]

Yeah. A hybrid gaming and workstation platform just doesn't make sense.

If, as the topic say, it is used for heavy graphic design; And he said he doesn't worry about money...
My recommendation is either the new Opteron 1xx series (shipping Q3 this year) which would run happily even on socket 939 or a dual Opteron 2xx series which runs on socket 940 and requires ECC Registered RAM
Tyan workstation motherboards
RAID 5 controller card with XOR engines
RAID 5 three to four 74GB Raptors (Well assuming price isn't an issue)

 

[otispunkmeyer]

Originally posted by: CheesePoofs
You could save a couple hundred dollars and take almost no performance hit.

First off, change power supply to OCZ Powerstream 520W; the 600W is way overkill for your system.
Second, change CPU to 3500, or 3200. 3000 if your willing to overclock it. You will save 2-3 hundred by doing this, but will loose very little performance.
Third, do NOT get 4 sticks of ram with an athlon 64, it forces them to run at a lower speed. 4g is complete overkill, even 2g is overkill. 1g is the optimal amount of ram, any more and it runs at higher latencies, any less and you have too little ram. I'd suggest the 2x512 pack of Corsair Value Select ram. its by far the best bang for the buck of any ram out there, it only costs about $80.
Fourth, I'd suggest getting a 6800gt or X800XL instead of the 6800ultra, but that is more of a personal choice on my part; I don't believe in getting super high end parts because they often cost way too much for the amount of performance they give you.

now now venice cores have this fixed

 

[Orre]

1 - Tyan Thunder K8WE SLI AMD-8131 8DDR-DIMM 2PCIe 2PCI-X 64 1PCI SATA II Raid Audio GB-LAN Dual Opteron Socket940 SSI EEB

2 - AMD Opteron 250 64bit 2400MHz/2.4GHz Boxed (with cpu-cooler!) Socket940

4 - Western Digital Raptor WD740GD 74Gb 10000rpm 8Mb cache S-ATA in RAID-5

2 - Seagate Barracuda ST3400832AS 7200.8 400Gb 7200rpm 8Mb NCQ S-ATA

1 - Adaptec AAR-2410SA SATA RAID 4Ch/64MB Kit RETAIL

4 - Samsung 1024Mb/1Gb DDR PC2100/DDR266 184pin 266MHz ECC REG

2 - (SLI) Leadtek WinFast PX6800 Ultra GeForce 6800Ultra 256Mb DDR3 TV-out DVI HDTV RETAIL PCI Express

1 - OCZ Powerstream 600W EU ATX

1 - Lian Li PCV1000 Aluminium Miditower Silver ATX without PSU

1 - Logitech Cordless Desktop MX3100

1 - Dell 24" Ultrasharp Wide

------------------------------------------------

Someting like this then???

 

[uOpt]

There is no reason not to go DDR400 with the K8WE.

 

[Pariah]

Unless you plan on stapling the motherboard to the outside of the case, you're going to need to get a bigger case to accomodate that board.

Your storage setup doesn't make much sense either the way you have it arranged. Ignoring the fact I still don't see why you are trying to use RAID 5, if you're going to blow that much money on a system, you might as well get it right, and again, use 3Ware RAID controllers for RAID 5.

 

[Orre]

Originally posted by: MartinCracauer
There is no reason not to go DDR400 with the K8WE.

i took the "Corsair PC3200 2-3-2-6 400Mhz ECC REG" instead... and the order has been sent now!... weeeha.... thanx all of you for your help and time.


Final order:

Tyan Thunder K8WE SLI AMD-8131 8DDR-DIMM 2PCIe 2PCI-X 64 1PCI SATA II Raid Audio GB-LAN Dual Opteron Socket940 SSI EEB

2x AMD Opteron 250 64bit 2400MHz/2.4GHz Boxed (with cpu-cooler!) Socket940

4x Corsair TWINX1024RE-3200LL 512Mb DDR PC3200 2-3-2-6 400Mhz ECC REG Heatsink

2x (SLI) Leadtek WinFast PX6800 Ultra GeForce 6800Ultra 256Mb DDR3 TV-out DVI HDTV RETAIL PCI Express

OCZ Powerstream 600W EU ATX

Lian Li PCV1000 Aluminium Miditower Silver ATX without PSU

4x Seagate Barracuda ST3300831AS 7200.8 300Gb 7200rpm 8Mb cache NCQ S-ATA in RAID-5

Adaptec AAR-2410SA SATA RAID 4Ch/64MB Kit


----------
Thanx again all of you!

 

[GuitarDaddy]

Originally posted by: Orre
1 - Tyan Thunder K8WE SLI AMD-8131 8DDR-DIMM 2PCIe 2PCI-X 64 1PCI SATA II Raid Audio GB-LAN Dual Opteron Socket940 SSI EEB

2 - AMD Opteron 250 64bit 2400MHz/2.4GHz Boxed (with cpu-cooler!) Socket940

4 - Western Digital Raptor WD740GD 74Gb 10000rpm 8Mb cache S-ATA in RAID-5

2 - Seagate Barracuda ST3400832AS 7200.8 400Gb 7200rpm 8Mb NCQ S-ATA

1 - Adaptec AAR-2410SA SATA RAID 4Ch/64MB Kit RETAIL

4 - Samsung 1024Mb/1Gb DDR PC2100/DDR266 184pin 266MHz ECC REG

2 - (SLI) Leadtek WinFast PX6800 Ultra GeForce 6800Ultra 256Mb DDR3 TV-out DVI HDTV RETAIL PCI Express

1 - OCZ Powerstream 600W EU ATX

1 - Lian Li PCV1000 Aluminium Miditower Silver ATX without PSU

1 - Logitech Cordless Desktop MX3100

1 - Dell 24" Ultrasharp Wide

------------------------------------------------

Someting like this then???

Now your in the right ballpark However the SLI'd 6800 ultras would be ultimate for gaming, but not what you want for graphics design or game development. I've seen people using this board put in one Quaddro/FireGL for graphics development, and one 6800U/XT850 for gaming. This seems like the ultimate way to utilize the two PCI-E 16x slots, SLI will do nothing for graphics design or development.

 

[Orre]

Originally posted by: GuitarDaddy


Now your in the right ballpark However the SLI'd 6800 ultras would be ultimate for gaming, but not what you want for graphics design or game development. I've seen people using this board put in one Quaddro/FireGL for graphics development, and one 6800U/XT850 for gaming. This seems like the ultimate way to utilize the two PCI-E 16x slots, SLI will do nothing for graphics design or development.

i stay with the SLI 6800Ultra because we develop SLI applications and i want to run them at max.... but i will buy a Quaddro/FireGL for the next project!

 

[Pariah]

Orre, you're not listening. The K8WE will NOT fit in the case you have chosen. The PCV1000 is an ATX case for motherboards up to 12" by 9.5" or something like that, the Thunder is an SSI EEB board which is 12" by 13". You have to choose a different case unless you plan on using the stapling method I mentioned above.

 

[imported_Kensai]

Get the v2000B. It's what I have.
And don't get dual 250s.. Get dual 275s.

 

[MobiusPizza]

Originally posted by: Orre

Originally posted by: GuitarDaddy


Now your in the right ballpark However the SLI'd 6800 ultras would be ultimate for gaming, but not what you want for graphics design or game development. I've seen people using this board put in one Quaddro/FireGL for graphics development, and one 6800U/XT850 for gaming. This seems like the ultimate way to utilize the two PCI-E 16x slots, SLI will do nothing for graphics design or development.

i stay with the SLI 6800Ultra because we develop SLI applications and i want to run them at max.... but i will buy a Quaddro/FireGL for the next project!

It may be too late but...

do you know you can run SLI off Quadro as well?
http://www.nvidia.com/object/quadro_sli.html

 

[Orre]

Originally posted by: Pariah
Orre, you're not listening. The K8WE will NOT fit in the case you have chosen. The PCV1000 is an ATX case for motherboards up to 12" by 9.5" or something like that, the Thunder is an SSI EEB board which is 12" by 13". You have to choose a different case unless you plan on using the stapling method I mentioned above.

aaaah, crap.. i didn't see your post. I will check for another case... and the Adaptec AAR-2410SA SATA RAID 4Ch/64MB Kit was the best raid controller they could get... what is wrong with it? to small cache? to slow?

 

[Orre]

Originally posted by: AnnihilatorX


It may be too late but...

do you know you can run SLI off Quadro as well?
http://www.nvidia.com/object/quadro_sli.html

Cool! I didn't know that.... i have to buy two of those later... i can put the two 6800Ultra in another computer at work and order two Quadro later ...when i'm finished with the Ultras....

 

[Orre]

any recomendations for another chassi? anyone?

 

[Gomce]

chieftec dragon series