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Good place to learn VB?

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The unfortunate thing is, that most people like Nothinman, get their opinion from VB based on an older version

Actually 6.0 was the one I used. If .NET runs as MS says it will and VC, VB, C# projects all run well in the CLR then I will lose some dislike for VB, but until I see that I'm going to keep telling people VB is a bad language (hell I'll probably do it after then just to piss the Microserfs off too), no matter who thinks I'm a fool.

It really irratates me. People like that just need to keep their mouth shut

Why? This is a public forum, I can voice my opinion all I want (so long as I follow the forum guidelines which I do). Would I get the same reaction for saying I don't like the automatic transmission but do like the manual?

Programming language is a preference, just because one's technically better, easier, whatever than another doesn't mean everyone should love it and use it.

Man, and I thought Linux zealots were bad...
 


<< The unfortunate thing is, that most people like Nothinman, get their opinion from VB based on an older version

Actually 6.0 was the one I used. If .NET runs as MS says it will and VC, VB, C# projects all run well in the CLR then I will lose some dislike for VB, but until I see that I'm going to keep telling people VB is a bad language (hell I'll probably do it after then just to piss the Microserfs off too), no matter who thinks I'm a fool.

Why? This is a public forum, I can voice my opinion all I want (so long as I follow the forum guidelines which I do). Would I get the same reaction for saying I don't like the automatic transmission but do like the manual?

q]

Sure this is a public forum and you can voice any opinion you want. But if someone asks for advice, please preface your response by saying you have an irrational hatred of Microsoft's products and that you don't make your living off coding. That way they can take what you say with a grain of salt. Some of us need our programming languages to be productive, and not just some kind of hobby. If this was the case, I don't think they could feed their families writing C code for Linux (at least not as easily as writing VB or VBA code).

Also, .Net had already been released and the differences between VB.Net and C# are miniscule.
 


<< Sure this is a public forum and you can voice any opinion you want. But if someone asks for advice, please preface your response by saying you have an irrational hatred of Microsoft's products and that you don't make your living off coding. That way they can take what you say with a grain of salt. Some of us need our programming languages to be productive, and not just some kind of hobby. If this was the case, I don't think they could feed their families writing C code for Linux (at least not as easily as writing VB or VBA code). >>



Exactly. I think statements should be further qualified instead of just regurgitating the typical, "Windows sucks", or "VB isn't a real language", or "IIS sucks" diatribes. I've always found, that those who slander the most, know the least. As a professional programmer, I have to get a job done. I can't tell my client that a project will take longer simply because I want to feel cool by writing it in C++. If I can save them money by using VB (in most cases), then that's what I'll do. Obviously it's never a black and white issue. VB isn't always the best solution, nor is C++ or any other language. You could coerce any language into solving a problem, but that doesn't mean it's done eloquently.



<< So you would say Apache, GTK+, Ethereal, etc don't contain lucid code? Sure you have to touch the OS specific stuf eventually, but a few #ifdef's around #includes and wrapper functions isn't as terrible as some think. >>



Apache for win32 isn't a direct port of the *nix version. In other words, the codebase is not platform independent. I haven't looked at the source for GTK+ for win32, but I doubt it's a direct port of the *nix version. Remember, just because a given product exists for multiple platforms does not, in any way, imply platform independence. Also, Ethereal was written in Java, which is inherently platform independent (contingent upon the presence of a jvm of course). The code for each platform may be lucid, but it wouldn't be so if they had one codebase for all supported platforms (i.e. platform independent).

Face it; true platform independence can only be achieve by abstracting the underlying platform (a la Java or .NET). Without this necessary abstraction, your code will never take full advantage of a platform, remain lucid, and still be platform independent. In languages without such an abstraction, you're forced to riddle your code with conditional compilation directives that's specific to each platform you target. This is hardly lucid code. Also, you're forced to deal with discrepencies in the supported features of each platform. For instance, data access technologies obviously differ between Windows and *nix applications. If you take advantage of *any* of the more advanced data access features of Windows (ODBC API, wrappers classes for ODBC API, COM components like ADO) you're automatically tied into one platform. How many applications these days don't require some form of data access? C and C++ simply cannot do this in a platform independent manner, you will either have to write your own abstraction layer (like a data access layer), or write your code in something inherently platform independent like Java, or one of the .NET languages (assuming we'll have a .NET runtime for other platforms in the future).

Sorry for the loquacious post.
 
VB makes you sterile.

C is about as portable as you really need. Look at NetBSD, some of the most portable code ever developed 😉

ethereal is written in C (thats what it looks like to me), as is libpcap (which is necessary for both ethereal and windump).

Oh, and Im not a programmer, but I couldnt use VB since it only runs on workstations/desktops/server wannabe's. Plus, I dont like viruses 😛
 
Sure this is a public forum and you can voice any opinion you want. But if someone asks for advice, please preface your response by saying you have an irrational hatred of Microsoft's products and that you don't make your living off coding.

And if someone's going to take my advice without doing some manual research on their own they deserve what they get. A quick forum search on me will show where my interests lie.

Also, .Net had already been released and the differences between VB.Net and C# are miniscule.

I know it's out, but the Linux (and FreeBSD AFAIK) CLRs aren't so there's no way to see how cross-platform it really is.

Apache for win32 isn't a direct port of the *nix version. In other words, the codebase is not platform independent.

Looking at the source it looks like that since 1.3 the win32 stuff is in the main tree.

Also, Ethereal was written in Java,

Ethereal is a GTK+ app written in C.
 


<< Every time I get advice on this forum I should research the poster's background? >>



Do you spend a couple hundred of dollars on an online retailer you have never heard of without checking up on them a bit first?
 


<< VB makes you sterile. >>



Seems like a really poor analogy to me, unless you're talking in relation to *nix. Either way, poor analogy.



<< C is about as portable as you really need. Look at NetBSD, some of the most portable code ever developed >>



Spoken from a true non-C developer.



<< ethereal is written in C (thats what it looks like to me), as is libpcap (which is necessary for both ethereal and windump). >>



My fault, I believe you're right. It always had a Java "feel" to it, so I thought it was Java.



<< Oh, and Im not a programmer, but I couldnt use VB since it only runs on workstations/desktops/server wannabe's. Plus, I dont like viruses >>



Well, it's confirmed, development opinions from a non-developer. Hmmm? Also, I'm sure you're aware that you can't even write a true virus in VB? Your "wannabe" reference shows the true naivete in your statements. Perhaps you shouldn't speak about something which you know nothing about?
 


<<

<< VB makes you sterile. >>



Seems like a really poor analogy to me, unless you're talking in relation to *nix. Either way, poor analogy. >>



It was a paraphrase of a quote that I wont be able to find easily 🙂



<<

<< C is about as portable as you really need. Look at NetBSD, some of the most portable code ever developed >>



Spoken from a true non-C developer. >>



Thats correct, but the project I mentioned does run on 20 some platforms...



<<

<< ethereal is written in C (thats what it looks like to me), as is libpcap (which is necessary for both ethereal and windump). >>



My fault, I believe you're right. It always had a Java "feel" to it, so I thought it was Java. >>



🙂



<<

<< Oh, and Im not a programmer, but I couldnt use VB since it only runs on workstations/desktops/server wannabe's. Plus, I dont like viruses >>



Well, it's confirmed, development opinions from a non-developer. >>



I dont think I mentioned anything about development.



<< Hmmm? Also, I'm sure you're aware that you can't even write a true virus in VB? >>



Then email worms, whatever keeps clogging peoples' outlook boxes.



<< Your "wannabe" reference shows the true naivete in your statements. >>



Windows servers seem to be Windows desktops with a couple of extra software packages and without a couple of artificial limits built in. There is no reason for a server to have many of the things that Windows servers have.



<< Perhaps you shouldn't speak about something which you know nothing about? >>



Maybe, maybe not. 🙂
 
Every time I get advice on this forum I should research the poster's background?

You should never blindly take advice, who knows what motivates people. For all we know Descartes could work for Microsoft, not that that makes him an instant evil person but it would mean he's got alterior motives for recommending MS products.
 
I obviously wasn't saying anyone should blindly take any advice. The point I'm trying to make is that if someone asks for help on a particular subject, you shouldn't spew your irrational hatreds. And if you do, it would be good to say your being irrational. This is why the General Hardware forum sometimes sucks. Someone asks what motherboard they should get with their Pentium, and some idiot says Pentium sucks go with Athlon. The original poster asked for a good way to learn VB, and the thread turned into a rant against VB.

If you are so anti-VB, why do you post in a thread with subject line: "Good place to learn VB?"
 
Huh?! What's wrong with Nothinman's statements about VB? Why is the rest of you so "angry"

about him? I dunno if he's troll No.1 or not in these forums, and I honestly don't care. But

what he said was just his opinion. Whether it's based on experience, knowledge or neither of

that... Sure, it's nice to read some opinions from "real" VB developers but it's not right

to kick someone if he's only made a few small VB apps. Well, he has then some experience

(very little) but at least he has some, so he can post his opinion on this forum. And even

with no experience you can post on this forums... well, that's what 99% of US DO! (includes

me!)

<My opinion>
Now about VB (version 6.0 and prior):
VB is nice. Nice for RAD, that's all. Agent Smith would say it like that: "VB is a disease

and OO-languages are the cure!"
</My opinion>

VB.Net could be the cure. Attention! I said "could", that means my opinion is based on very

little to no knowledge/experience/whatever... I've read a lot about C# (just went through

the language spec), .NET and the whole stuff around but very little about VB.Net and how far

the OO-concepts have been "hacked" into it. (Guess, that's all what MS has done...)
And, I highly doubt that "C# is like VB.Net" as somebody said... Well, that's a comment you

can flame...

cool


PS: I'm neither Nothinmans nor Agent Smith's lawyer!

PPS: Saying that "VB is a disease" doesn't mean that all you VB programmers out there are

dumb idiots. Absolutely NO! You choose VB over other languages because it makes you more

productive or because your customers wants their apps in VB. And there's nothing wrong about

it, you earn your money with it! I just find, that VB is limiting. And the syntax is dirty.

Hell, even VB.Script looks better than VB itself. But then it's called a scripting language

and not a programming language. Oops, getting out of control... 😉

PPPS: Just to be on-topic:
http://www.visualbasicbooks.com/
http://www.freevbcode.com/
http://www.codeguru.com/vb/
http://www.citilink.com/~jgarrick/vbasic/
http://msdn.microsoft.com/vbasic/
http://www.a1vbcode.com/
http://64.23.12.52/
 
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