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Good overall workout without stressing the knee

A

Attrox

Golden Member
Like the title said, what's a good workout that doesn't stress the knee? I have an unbalance knee cap so I can't do any deadlift or squat.

I do different type of resistance training, training the biceps, triceps, chest, back, hips, etc plus at least half hour of elliptical at the gym. It takes too much time though doing a lot of different things at the gym. I have to spend at least 2 hours every time.

I'm almost at my target weight for now. 5'6", I was at 179 2-3 months ago, currently at 161 aiming for 155 and then planning to keep it at that range. I need a good workout routine that trains multiple different muscles so I don't waste too much time at the gym.

Another thing is, I got a pretty nice body tone right now but I notice my damn stomach gut only shrink a little. Is there another way to burn the fat there faster? Does running longer helps? Some people at my gym run like 1.5 to 2 hours and they sweat a lot but they are still out of shape.
 
Fixing the knee is tricky, you might be best to consult with a good trainer to determine what you can and can't do, our recommendations would be only guesses. Have any braces worked for your knee? That and/or tape is the best thing I can suggest if you want to squat or deadlift.

There are two reasons your gut or "pooch belly" didn't go down. No, you can't exercise and spot reduce fat. You either have fecal matter lodged in your gut from poor diet, or you have bad pelvic posture. These are both correctable. This 6 minute video explains it all. A third reason is you have a bad beer gut (this takes a long time) and the muscles that hold your guts in have basically failed, it all depends.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqQZ_K5hbFw

I just did what the guy said and found a CHEK practitioner in my state and consulted on posture correction. I don't have terrible posture but since I was always the tallest in my class the world isn't sized for me and I slouch. My trainer taught me how to stand with a straight spine for the first time in my life. I am doing exercises and stretches to correct my posture. When I stand straight now, my waistline reappears as my guts get sucked in, and my butt doesn't stick out as much.

Taken from the Cake song Comanche:

You need to straighten your posture and suck in your gut. You need to pull back your shoulders and tighten your butt.
Click to expand...
 
You can't spot reduce, I'm in the same boat as you, I'd say I'm pretty toned, especially when I flex but I got a minor spare tire that just doesn't go with the body. You just gotta keep at it, time and consistency will yield results. I've only been at it for 3 months and at the beginning, fat just melted off quickly, now it's excruciatingly slow to a point where you think you're not making any progress because weight isn't going down and you barely see any improvements. One you get to this stage, discipline with what you eat and consistent exercise below caloric intake is the only way to get there. I'd recommend taking a picture of your belly and compare every 2 weeks, you'll notice an improvement easier this way because if you look at the mirror day to day, it's like nothing is happening.

As far as running goes, 45mins - 1 hour is really the most you should go for on a given day. Unless you're training for endurance/marathon, running longer isn't very efficient use of time. Like food, you don't eat your days worth of calories in one sitting, running is sort of the same(albeit over a longer timeline)... that is to say instead of running 2 hours one day, just run one but if you feel you need more cardio just run another day for an hour meaning if you ran 3x/week for an hour, run 4x/week for an hour. That'll do more for you than say running 4 hours all in one day.

But again, I can't stress enough how important consistency is, just stick to it and it'll come to you... be patient.
 
Thanks for the advise.

I think my pose when sitting is pretty bad the way I slouch, it makes sense that I'm bulging more at the stomach, I gotta correct that.

I'm not gonna run for 2 hours that's gonna waste too much of my time at the gym. Like you said 45 to 1 hour is probably the max. I think I need a better exercise routine though. Like the sticky said, I need compound exercise but squat will be troublesome cos even when I squat now without any weight, I felt the tightness in my knee really badly.
 
Originally posted by: Attrox
Thanks for the advise.

I think my pose when sitting is pretty bad the way I slouch, it makes sense that I'm bulging more at the stomach, I gotta correct that.

I'm not gonna run for 2 hours that's gonna waste too much of my time at the gym. Like you said 45 to 1 hour is probably the max. I think I need a better exercise routine though. Like the sticky said, I need compound exercise but squat will be troublesome cos even when I squat now without any weight, I felt the tightness in my knee really badly.
Click to expand...

The main question is are you squatting correctly? I myself had a pretty bad knee in high school. When I started weightlifting and got my squat form down, the knee pain went away for the mostpart and when it flared up, it wasn't because of squatting. If you are doing squats wrong, they will hurt your knee. However, if you perfect your squat form, the knee has little chance for injury. Look at the Squat Rx series on youtube. It gives a lot of good info. If you can get your squat perfect at body weight, then you can 100% start to squat with weight and without problems.
 
I don't squat that much yet though but the problem is my knee hurts even from playing basketball and running on the hard ground (that's why I run on elliptical now). I checked with the doctor and he basically said that my knee cap moved to the side more than normal and the constant friction movement of the knee cap when I bend and straighten the knee is causing the irritation and pain.

So squatting is out of the question until I recover the knee (or operate on it but I won't do it til this upcoming winter season finishes cos I'm snowboarding no matter what lol). What I need to find out is if there's another effective compound muscle training out there that doesn't burden the knee (I will train to strengthen the muscle around the knee separately as part of my rehab).
 
What are you doing to recover the knee?

Squat can hurt the knee depending on your particular knee condition, even with good form.

In any case, if you're past whatever traumatic event or influence damaged your knee and it's not getting better, your only alternatives are surgery or rehab, generally the last one being your first choice. Rehabing a knee can take a long time but is often worth it and if it works out well you do better than if you'd taken a knife to it.

If your doctor is right on his diagnosis there are plenty of routines to help your tracking knee cap.
 
Originally posted by: Attrox
I don't squat that much yet though but the problem is my knee hurts even from playing basketball and running on the hard ground (that's why I run on elliptical now). I checked with the doctor and he basically said that my knee cap moved to the side more than normal and the constant friction movement of the knee cap when I bend and straighten the knee is causing the irritation and pain.

So squatting is out of the question until I recover the knee (or operate on it but I won't do it til this upcoming winter season finishes cos I'm snowboarding no matter what lol). What I need to find out is if there's another effective compound muscle training out there that doesn't burden the knee (I will train to strengthen the muscle around the knee separately as part of my rehab).
Click to expand...

Basketball and running are both knee-strenuous. They are both relatively high impact. Squat is not at all. You need to try working your way into the perfect squat. Trust me. However, you should probably be seeing a physical therapist first to help you deal with your knee cap and its tracking problems.
 
You know, it's really rediculous that people still think that jumping on a treadmill for an hour is the best way to exercise. I was talking to a girl yesterday and the fact that she goes to the gym everyday came up:

"What do you do there?"
"I run on the elliptical, I used to run on the treadmill, but then I got shin splints, knees, blah blah blah"

Yeah, no kidding. Who would have thought that pounding your body weight down on each knee thousands of times a day would be a problem? But gradually building strength by going through a natural, no impact motion a few times a week is dangerous? 😕

It's really long past time for the popular experts out there that actually have influence over how people exercise to speak up and tell them to stop wrecking their knees.

If they're that worried about cardio health, 20 minutes of HIIT is far better.

JMO anyway.
 
Originally posted by: Attrox
Another thing is, I got a pretty nice body tone right now but I notice my damn stomach gut only shrink a little. Is there another way to burn the fat there faster? Does running longer helps? Some people at my gym run like 1.5 to 2 hours and they sweat a lot but they are still out of shape.
Click to expand...
There is no effective way to spot reduce. That is, you can't lose fat on just a single part of your body. All you can do is create the conditions for overall fat loss and your body will decide where that fat comes from (which is usually from all over). See the fat loss sticky for more info on weight loss.

Originally posted by: Attrox
I checked with the doctor and he basically said that my knee cap moved to the side more than normal and the constant friction movement of the knee cap when I bend and straighten the knee is causing the irritation and pain.

So squatting is out of the question until I recover the knee
Click to expand...
Is that your conclusion or the doctor's? In either case, the first thing I'd recommend is getting an expert's advice on your knee rather than the people on this forum. I'm not sure who your doctor is, but unfortunately, the vast majority of doctors (general practitioners, to be exact) have very little training/knowledge with regards to exercise. So if you are just going to your PCP, it's probably a much better idea to discuss this kind of issue with someone who specializes in sports (and knee) injuries.

Having said that, depending on the type of injury you have, a properly performed squat is actually beneficial to the knee and not harmful. I don't know about knee cap issues in particular (hence my recommendation to find a specialist), but most people who have knee pain find that squatting actually helps them. However, proper form is essential and it's not something you're like to get right on your own. If you are going to try it, I highly recommend picking up a copy of Starting Strength, which has some of the best instructions I've seen for teaching the squat (as well as all the other major lifts). The complementary dvd, squat Rx and stronglifts are also great resources.

Finally, the deadlift should not cause any issues for your knee at all. The proper starting stance (as in this pic) doesn't require much bending of the knee, and if you can't do that, then I don't see how you could be running, playing basketball, or snowboarding either...
 
Originally posted by: Attrox
Like the title said, what's a good workout that doesn't stress the knee? I have an unbalance knee cap so I can't do any deadlift or squat.

I do different type of resistance training, training the biceps, triceps, chest, back, hips, etc plus at least half hour of elliptical at the gym. It takes too much time though doing a lot of different things at the gym. I have to spend at least 2 hours every time.

I'm almost at my target weight for now. 5'6", I was at 179 2-3 months ago, currently at 161 aiming for 155 and then planning to keep it at that range. I need a good workout routine that trains multiple different muscles so I don't waste too much time at the gym.

Another thing is, I got a pretty nice body tone right now but I notice my damn stomach gut only shrink a little. Is there another way to burn the fat there faster? Does running longer helps? Some people at my gym run like 1.5 to 2 hours and they sweat a lot but they are still out of shape.
Click to expand...

An "unbalanced knee" based on your description in a follow up post, sounds like runner's knee or "Patellofemoral Pain Syndrome". Basically your knee cap doesn't track properly, comes out of its groove etc.. This is usually caused by some type of muscle imbalance and/or tightness.

I would go see a PT about it. My runner's knee went away after about 5-6wks of PT. Most of it involved "plyometrics" and stretching.

As for the stomach fat, eat less, exercise more. Running is NOT a waste of time if your goal is to burn calories. It's about the most efficient calorie burning "mainstream" exercise you can do.

Gene
 
Originally posted by: gar655
Originally posted by: Attrox
Like the title said, what's a good workout that doesn't stress the knee? I have an unbalance knee cap so I can't do any deadlift or squat.

I do different type of resistance training, training the biceps, triceps, chest, back, hips, etc plus at least half hour of elliptical at the gym. It takes too much time though doing a lot of different things at the gym. I have to spend at least 2 hours every time.

I'm almost at my target weight for now. 5'6", I was at 179 2-3 months ago, currently at 161 aiming for 155 and then planning to keep it at that range. I need a good workout routine that trains multiple different muscles so I don't waste too much time at the gym.

Another thing is, I got a pretty nice body tone right now but I notice my damn stomach gut only shrink a little. Is there another way to burn the fat there faster? Does running longer helps? Some people at my gym run like 1.5 to 2 hours and they sweat a lot but they are still out of shape.
Click to expand...

An "unbalanced knee" based on your description in a follow up post, sounds like runner's knee or "Patellofemoral Pain Syndrome". Basically your knee cap doesn't track properly, comes out of its groove etc.. This is usually caused by some type of muscle imbalance and/or tightness.

I would go see a PT about it. My runner's knee went away after about 5-6wks of PT. Most of it involved "plyometrics" and stretching.

As for the stomach fat, eat less, exercise more. Running is NOT a waste of time if your goal is to burn calories. It's about the most efficient calorie burning "mainstream" exercise you can do.

Gene
Click to expand...

Yup it's pretty much like you said. I'm improving the muscles that support the knee right now but the therapy is a chore and a bore.

I'm gonna read more on the replies when I finish working today. I don't think I will have a problem if my pose is like the dead-lift picture. I'm more worried if I really squat down that my butt almost touch the floor, the knee feel really really tight if I do that.
 
Originally posted by: Attrox
Btw gar655, what kind of "plyometrics" and stretching did you do? That might helps in improving my knee.
Click to expand...

The problem with this is that it may be a different problem. Different knee injuries require different exercises and the solution to one injury can aggravate another. You need to see an expert. Jumping plyo's of any sort will be a bad idea for your knee. Go see a doctor and get a prescription for physical therapy. Get the evaluation and some exercises. After that, you can do them on your own.
 
Originally posted by: Attrox
I'm more worried if I really squat down that my butt almost touch the floor, the knee feel really really tight if I do that.
Click to expand...
In a deadlift, your butt never goes below parallel (below the knee, as seen from the side). In a squat, it goes just below parallel. Neither case will get it to "almost touch the floor". And again, I can't stress enough the importance of proper form when doing something like squatting! Learning to stay on your heels, push your butt back, and keeping your knees over your toes will make the difference between a squat that's good for the knees and one that will hurt you.
 
Originally posted by: brikis98
Originally posted by: Attrox
I'm more worried if I really squat down that my butt almost touch the floor, the knee feel really really tight if I do that.
Click to expand...
In a deadlift, your butt never goes below parallel (below the knee, as seen from the side). In a squat, it goes just below parallel. Neither case will get it to "almost touch the floor". And again, I can't stress enough the importance of proper form when doing something like squatting! Learning to stay on your heels, push your butt back, and keeping your knees over your toes will make the difference between a squat that's good for the knees and one that will hurt you.
Click to expand...

Also, I'd like to mention that very few people can actually keep good form as they almost touch the floor from a squat. You have to be trained and fairly flexible. Assuming you aren't either, your form was bad. Anyways, an ATG squat is not required to do good squatting.
 
Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged
Originally posted by: Attrox
Btw gar655, what kind of "plyometrics" and stretching did you do? That might helps in improving my knee.
Click to expand...

The problem with this is that it may be a different problem. Different knee injuries require different exercises and the solution to one injury can aggravate another. You need to see an expert. Jumping plyo's of any sort will be a bad idea for your knee. Go see a doctor and get a prescription for physical therapy. Get the evaluation and some exercises. After that, you can do them on your own.
Click to expand...

Yep, best to go see a qualified PT. The guy I went to specializes in sports. He interviewed me for about 45 minutes with a physical exam as well before he decided on a course of action.

I had two problems. First I had a torn adductor muscle that ultimately resulted in my runner's knee.

So first we worked on the adductor and then started off slowly on the knee problem. For me the plyometrics worked very well and I noticed an improvement quite quickly.

Gene
 
Originally posted by: Attrox
Btw gar655, what kind of "plyometrics" and stretching did you do? That might helps in improving my knee.
Click to expand...

A guy I knew in college injured his knee during practice one night. I have no idea what the diagnosis was, but my guess was that he had a severely strained or torn ACL or MCL. He went to a doctor, who told him that intensive rehab might be able to fix the problem, but he'd highly recommend surgery.

This guy only heard the rehab part and then commenced his own unsupervised rehab. At age 19. With absolutely zero knowledge of body mechanics. I would see him around the gym doing various exercises or jogging or something and he knee never looked right. He transferred to another school later that year, but I've heard that even now (3+ yrs later) he cannot run properly or really do anything and continues to refuse to seek professional medical help.

Don't be the asshole who thinks you can fix it on your own, especially with your knees. Take care of them. See a professional. Do not self-diagnose or self-treat.
 
Everyone seems to agree you need a trainer. Make sure you find a good one trained in Biomechanics. I don't care about cost, you can't put a price on your health - take a loan out if you have to. If you don't fix it now it will only get worse.

If you wanna kill two birds with one stone and correct your posture to get rid of the pooch belly, I recommend a CHEK trainer certified in Biomechanics, like the guy I found. He was expensive, but really good. You're in CA so they must be everywhere, look up the directory at www.chekconnect.com. My guy spent 3 hours assessing my flexibility and posture and gave me a set of stretches and exercises tailored to my needs and goals. I don't know what the levels are, but he was listed as a "level 2" CHEK Biomechanics trainer.

 
Originally posted by: Titan
Everyone seems to agree you need a trainer. Make sure you find a good one trained in Biomechanics. I don't care about cost, you can't put a price on your health - take a loan out if you have to. If you don't fix it now it will only get worse.

If you wanna kill two birds with one stone and correct your posture to get rid of the pooch belly, I recommend a CHEK trainer certified in Biomechanics, like the guy I found. He was expensive, but really good. You're in CA so they must be everywhere, look up the directory at www.chekconnect.com. My guy spent 3 hours assessing my flexibility and posture and gave me a set of stretches and exercises tailored to my needs and goals. I don't know what the levels are, but he was listed as a "level 2" CHEK Biomechanics trainer.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't trust someone who is just certified. I believe their certification process is 1) not accredited by any organization, 2) short in duration, 3) not regulated by anyone but themselves. I would go see a physical therapist. They're trained for 7 years total (bachelor's and DPT) on comprehensive movement, biomechanics, anatomy, physiology, etc. I wouldn't trust a CHEK trainer over a PT any day.
 
Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged
Originally posted by: Titan
Everyone seems to agree you need a trainer. Make sure you find a good one trained in Biomechanics. I don't care about cost, you can't put a price on your health - take a loan out if you have to. If you don't fix it now it will only get worse.

If you wanna kill two birds with one stone and correct your posture to get rid of the pooch belly, I recommend a CHEK trainer certified in Biomechanics, like the guy I found. He was expensive, but really good. You're in CA so they must be everywhere, look up the directory at www.chekconnect.com. My guy spent 3 hours assessing my flexibility and posture and gave me a set of stretches and exercises tailored to my needs and goals. I don't know what the levels are, but he was listed as a "level 2" CHEK Biomechanics trainer.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't trust someone who is just certified. I believe their certification process is 1) not accredited by any organization, 2) short in duration, 3) not regulated by anyone but themselves. I would go see a physical therapist. They're trained for 7 years total (bachelor's and DPT) on comprehensive movement, biomechanics, anatomy, physiology, etc. I wouldn't trust a CHEK trainer over a PT any day.
Click to expand...

Oh I agree totally. If anything a physical therapist might be covered under your insurance. Maybe get your doctor to refer you. My point was to find someone better than your average personal trainer from a gym. As I've learned, most of them suck. You need to evaluate each individual and in my case it worked finding my guy but I'm sure not all CHEK trainers are up to the same standard.
 
Any mention of a PT in my posts refers to a physical therapist. Not some moron working at gym to pick up girls or maybe guys ;-)

Gene
 
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