Good Lord! Bush wanted to turn 100k arabs into American citizens

[peonyu]

The thing is Infohawk, people tend to tie certain religions to Ethnic groups. So if you insult Islam you are insulting Arabs in the eyes of simple minded people. They cant grasp that Islam is a religion [full stop]. And not a race. And because of that they throw out the idea right from the start that its possible to say a religion is full of shit, since if you say that its indirectly insulting Arabs [in Islams case]. They also cant grasp the concept that *yes* not all religions are peaceful.

Anyone can tell at a glance that Islam is not peaceful when compared to Buddhism. And of all the active religions today it is the most violent, there is no question about it. At the same time it can be a moderate religion if people dont take it literally, but most Muslims do. If you ask a devout Muslim about his faith he will say it is literally the word of God. They believe that the Quaran is what the Bible should have been, and Muhammed got the 'real' word from God while Jesus and others received a corrupted message.

Some Christians take the Bible literal to, but when they do that atleast they are reading about doomsday stuff such as Revelations, and that doesnt involve killing all non-believers like Islam says to do [and it does].

 

[McWatt]

Some Christians take the Bible literal to, but when they do that atleast they are reading about doomsday stuff such as Revelations, and that doesnt involve killing all non-believers like Islam says to do [and it does].

Deuteronomy 17
If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant; 17:3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; 17:4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel; 17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.

 

[peonyu]

Deuteronomy 17
If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant; 17:3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; 17:4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel; 17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.

Ok so you pulled a nice quote out there. Now back it up with some links to news stories showing Christians carrying these acts out. If you cant do so then crazy Christians are a tiny fringe movement and you helped to prove it. On the other hand do I even need to bother linking a story about Muslims stoning people ? Google Stoning and you will get tens of thousands, and those are only the ones reported.

 

[BeauJangles]

That's a lot of 9/11s. Can you imagine the wave of bombings across the country? Unacceptable. These Palestinians should be re-settled in Palestine or Israel, not Richardson, Texas.

Xenophobic much?

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

Do Muslims by definition hold the Quran to be sacred? Yes. Is the Quran barbaric? Yes. Which of these two statements do you disagree with?

Do Christians and Jews by definition hold the Old Testament to be sacred? Yes. Is the Old Testament barbaric? Yes. Which of these two statements do you disagree with?

 

[Infohawk]

Do Christians and Jews by definition hold the Old Testament to be sacred? Yes. Is the Old Testament barbaric? Yes. Which of these two statements do you disagree with?

LOL I knew you would resort to that. Pretty lame and not relevant to the questions I asked you (first).

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

LOL I knew you would resort to that. Pretty lame and not relevant to the questions I asked you (first).

Okay, my answers are
Yes, most Muslims hold the Quaran to be a sacred text
Yes, some (many? I haven't read it) parts of the text are barbaric
Corollary, most Muslims don't take the text to be literal, or they substitute in their own personal morals in the parts that are nasty, or they are just plain hypocritical. I substituted Christianity to your questions in the vain hope that you would try to relate your own familiar experiences to something you clearly know little about (Muslim people).

I mean, just think about it for a second Infohawk. Think about how many Muslim people there are out there. If the religion itself caused a large proportion (a majority or even a statistically significant minority) to become evil terrorists then the world would be an even bigger mess than it is now, just by the sheer numbers. I don't know why people like you can't understand that a vast, vast majority of Muslim people are just ordinary folks who want to live their lives like any one of us. They just happen to hold a particular faith that you find objectionable.

I used to be militantly opposed to religious people like you are now. I have grown. I hope one day you do too. (And for the record I still hold strong opposition to religion itself, but most of the religious people are just ordinary, hard-working good people.)

 

[manimal]

But all Muslims are superstitious people who have barbaric beliefs.

Your gross over generalization skill goes up by 1

Your level in over generalization is now 100 and gives you +10 to bigotry and hateful rhetoric skills.


I think you meant that as a joke btw hence my tongue and cheek response...

 

[Infohawk]

Okay, my answers are
Yes, most Muslims hold the Quaran to be a sacred text
Yes, some (many? I haven't read it) parts of the text are barbaric
Corollary, most Muslims don't take the text to be literal, or they substitute in their own personal morals in the parts that are nasty, or they are just plain hypocritical. I substituted Christianity to your questions in the vain hope that you would try to relate your own familiar experiences to something you clearly know little about (Muslim people).

I mean, just think about it for a second Infohawk. Think about how many Muslim people there are out there. If the religion itself caused a large proportion (a majority or even a statistically significant minority) to become evil terrorists then the world would be an even bigger mess than it is now, just by the sheer numbers. I don't know why people like you can't understand that a vast, vast majority of Muslim people are just ordinary folks who want to live their lives like any one of us. They just happen to hold a particular faith that you find objectionable.

I used to be militantly opposed to religious people like you are now. I have grown. I hope one day you do too. (And for the record I still hold strong opposition to religion itself, but most of the religious people are just ordinary, hard-working good people.)

Enough with your stupid assumptions already and STFU with your condescension please. Maybe, as someone who hasn't read the Quran, you should stop acting like you know more about Islam?

How would you know what Muslims do or don't take literally? The Quran makes it pretty clear that wife-beating is legit. These aren't exactly parables either and there's not much room for interpretation. I'm tired of apologists constructing their own fake visions of a moderate Islam. The rest of your post are just strawmans and more of your assumptions. What is "militant" about calling out religious BS when I see it? Nobody is saying Muslims need to be hunted down and killed. All I said is that Muslims are by definition superstitious and have barbaric beliefs. That has nothing to do with whether many of them are nice people or not. (Which you wouldn't know anyway.)

 

[Infohawk]

Your gross over generalization skill goes up by 1

Your level in over generalization is now 100 and gives you +10 to bigotry and hateful rhetoric skills.


I think you meant that as a joke btw hence my tongue and cheek response...

Again, care to dispute the statement that Muslims are a) superstitious or b) have barbaric beliefs? Yes or no. Not interested in your other shenanigans.

Edit: Never mind. I don't want to play into OP's game of making it seem like Arabs = Muslims. Same goes for GodlessAstronomer.

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

Edit: Never mind. I don't want to play into OP's game of making it seem like Arabs = Muslims. Same goes for GodlessAstronomer.

How am I playing that game? I specifically made the distinction in an earlier post. I'm done talking to you, you're dumber than a bag of Christine O'Donnells and totally unwilling to listen or try to understand other people.

 

[werepossum]

Do Christians and Jews by definition hold the Old Testament to be sacred? Yes. Is the Old Testament barbaric? Yes. Which of these two statements do you disagree with?

The part where you infer that holding a barbaric text sacred is somehow equal to acting out those barbaric parts of another barbaric sacred text. Within Islam, the Quran is the sacred word of G-d as dictated to Muhammed. Where Muhammed's earlier text differs from his later text, the official position within all of Islam is that Muhammed being infallible, obviously G-d changed his mind. (Evidently G-d, unlike Muhammed, is not infallible.) The mainstream practice of Islam is in no way comparable to the mainstream practice of Christianity or Judaism. Luckily for us, most Muslims are good people who ignore most of the worst parts. Compare this to Christianity where the worst parts of the Bible are not considered part of G-d's plan for us today, or Judaism where the worst parts of the Bible are not considered part of Jewish law (the Torah), and you will see there is no comparison.

 

[BeauJangles]

Enough with your stupid assumptions already and STFU with your condescension please. Maybe, as someone who hasn't read the Quran, you should stop acting like you know more about Islam?

How would you know what Muslims do or don't take literally? The Quran makes it pretty clear that wife-beating is legit. These aren't exactly parables either and there's not much room for interpretation. I'm tired of apologists constructing their own fake visions of a moderate Islam. The rest of your post are just strawmans and more of your assumptions. What is "militant" about calling out religious BS when I see it? Nobody is saying Muslims need to be hunted down and killed. All I said is that Muslims are by definition superstitious and have barbaric beliefs. That has nothing to do with whether many of them are nice people or not. (Which you wouldn't know anyway.)

The Bible makes it pretty clear that rape and incest are legit... does that mean most Christians think that rape and incest are good?

Think about the core tenants of Christianity and how crazy the story is. Virgin birth? A guy who dies and comes back to life who ultimately turns out to not only be himself but be his father? Sounds pretty wacky to me, yet people believe that. We don't call them barbaric.