Good Linux support they say...

[cmdrdredd]

Really, it is quite adorable. You are apparently completely incapable of grasping why Linus hates Nvidia. Hint: it has nothing to do with driver quality.

Is it because Nvidia doesn't think Linus' toys are worth playing with and now he has a fit?

Really...Nvidia wants to make money, Linux doesn't seem to be the place for them to do it. If I were Nvidia I know I wouldn't devote much in the way of resources to Linux.

 

[blackened23]

You're really defending nvidia on this, which is cool whatever. IMO, you're kidding yourself if you think nvidia cards are used exclusively for gaming, there are uses for cards in the corporate world. A lot of firms i'm aware of prefer ATI because they can drive a ton of monitors from a single card (6) and those features work in linux as well...

I'm definitely not the linux expert but it is widely used in the corporate world. Like you said, gamers don't care about linux but i'd venture a guess that there are a few non gamers using nvidia cards as well.

*I have no opinion on the linux matter, like I said, i'm not the expert on the open source driver situation. I'll digress now because I don't fully understand what features don't work in linux for nvidia, but I don't think "screw linux" is the proper answer. Thats all i'm saying

 

[cmdrdredd]

Well, 3dsmax...not on Linux. There's a 3D program I forget the name of but I don't know about it.

The people who use Quadro cards (not gamers BTW) can't run many of their professional programs on Linux either. Again...Nvidia is about money and no it's not all games either.

 

[Elixer]

Linux and AMD are in bed together... they both support the FOSS ideology, while Nvidia supports proprietary bullshit.

AMD is sympathetic to Linux's cause... they just don't have the resources Nvidia does.

That is only partly true, AMD doesn't release *everything* about their GPUs...

AMD use to have close-drivers until recently.. and compared to Nvidia.. their support is elementary.

Have you tried AMD ? I have been using them for a few years now, and while they do have some issues, overall, they are pretty stable.

Is it because Nvidia doesn't think Linus' toys are worth playing with and now he has a fit?

Really...Nvidia wants to make money, Linux doesn't seem to be the place for them to do it. If I were Nvidia I know I wouldn't devote much in the way of resources to Linux.

So, it is better to keep all documents secret, and let everyone reverse engineer their GPUs ?
What happens when they drop support for some card, and no more drivers are available ? Then what ? You are forced to buy new hardware, which is fine for Nvidia, they will glady take more money...

I see this as no different than people trying to repair / restore old cars. Sure, the automakers want you to buy new, but lots of people rather repair or restore their current car even if they had plenty of money to buy new stuff.

I don't have a problem with using binary blobs from either nvidia or AMD, but some people do.

 

[cmdrdredd]

That is only partly true, AMD doesn't release *everything* about their GPUs...


Have you tried AMD ? I have been using them for a few years now, and while they do have some issues, overall, they are pretty stable.




So, it is better to keep all documents secret, and let everyone reverse engineer their GPUs ?
What happens when they drop support for some card, and no more drivers are available ? Then what ? You are forced to buy new hardware, which is fine for Nvidia, they will glady take more money...

I see this as no different than people trying to repair / restore old cars. Sure, the automakers want you to buy new, but lots of people rather repair or restore their current car even if they had plenty of money to buy new stuff.

I don't have a problem with using binary blobs from either nvidia or AMD, but some people do.

Nvidia keeps updating support for their line going back years. They continue to offer improvements in performance and features to even the GTX400 series and the GTX 200 series even got adaptive vsync support. What other driver team releases updates that support cards released back in 2008/2009?

 

[Homeles]

That is only partly true, AMD doesn't release *everything* about their GPUs...

FOSS isn't only about drivers.

 

[Cerb]

Linux evolves around him. He behaves like he does. Anyone else see´s the problem?

Skip to just past 1:01, please. His response the NVidia guy should tell you all you need to know about his personality, as far as why he is still deferred to, even though Linux could easily be forked under someone else's leadership.

nVidia might be wrong and all. But this is not how you solve it. It only makes sure you burn more bridges. And why Linux marketshare is what it is.

...very high?

He's not really so much interested in solving the problem, at this Q&A, as making the problem very clear to those far outside the LKML. If you've been an interested Linux user for some time, it's pretty much non-news.

NVidia's support the Linux Kernel with their ARM devices has gotten the ire of Linus and others more than once. They want to say they support Linux, but then help make the mess that is the ARM kernel even worse. Others would take up the problem, if they could, but some hardware features won't even be known until after they are working, and reverse-engineered from NV's patches...or worse, not working, and unfixable, with poor support from newer kernels.

If direct customers for their hardware start wanting it opened up, I'm sure NVidia will have little choice. But, I do thinkt hat's what it will take. Otherwise, they will keep selling chips, and once they've stuck someone with their chip, their job is done.

Desktop/notebook/server x86 is a whole different universe than embedded, which also a whole different universe than phones and tablets. We take documentation, and years of decent support, for granted, as part of the cost of the hardware and software.

P.S. It seems Google's date range search is fundamentally broken. All recently-indexed news sites are returning hits that link to this event in sidebars an such, but the articles are unrelated. I would really have hoped Google would have dated, and discarded, new changes in indexed content, when performing a search for older dates. I was hoping to link to seevral prior anti-NV statements by Linus Torvalds, but have had little luck separating out the Aalto chaff.

 

[KompuKare]

This thread has turned out as expected. Rather than looking at the substance (is Nvidia's proprietary binary drivers a bad thing - or at least try to understand why the Linux kernel guys do not like binary kernel drivers), it seems to have descended into the usual for any thread mentioning Nvidia: lots of posters siding with Nvidia irrespectively.

Yes, Nvidia is about making money selling hardware and the more upgrades the better, but their Tegra and Tesla lines depend on linux and the linux kernel so it's not like they're not making money of the kernel group's work.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Well he also attacks Microsoft, Apple etc in the same way. So the BS about people siding with nVidia is nonsense. The man is pissy and cant behave himself in public to say it directly. I dont care if he is a legend, if he is a tech guru or anything else. You simply dont behave like he does.

 

[bleucharm28]

This isn't about Nvidia or any other companys. This guy has issues and is looking for someone to vent on. The way i see it, it's always the same type of people that like to bitch and moan when he or she can't have there way.

 

[KompuKare]

Hm, Microsoft and Apple too. I wonder why the Linux kernel people and free software people in general might have choice words to say to two of the biggest proprietary companies around.

 

[Keysplayr]

Do you even realize and understand who Linus Torvolds is? He's legendary in the software world and is the chief architect of the linux kernel. So i'd say linux does evolve around him.

Yet again, others posters bash AMD since that is somehow related to how Torvolds views nvidia. How is that even relevant? Interesting, very interesting.

Who he is? I think he is a bit unstable to publicly lash out at a company who he wished he had better relations with. I thought this guy was smart? Apparently not so much. And isn't Linux just a GUI for the Unix OS? If Unix didn't exist, I don't think Linus could have created the Linux Kernel, no? I'm not saying what he did wasn't cool, but, I think he was the one who just happened to do it first. That's all. I gave up on Linux many years ago. I wasn't a mainstream user, but I did dabble with it as a side interest. Haven't looked back.
I will say that Android, which is supposed to be based on the Linux Kernel, is awesome. If only they would make a desktop OS interface like my smartphone. Oh yeah, they did. It's called Windows.

 

[Jaydip]

Only 2-3% of the current kernel code was developed by Linus Torvolds.Also he is no saint,he had quite a few issues regarding Linux with Richard Stallman

 

[Lonbjerg]

Really, it is quite adorable. You are apparently completely incapable of grasping why Linus hates Nvidia. Hint: it has nothing to do with driver quality.

False, the reson why NVIDIA driver work so well under Linux is because they are not open source, but NVIDIA proporitary..and that ticked off poor little Linux...who now look like Richard Stallman...not a good thing.

"Open source" POLICIES are the crux here...not performance...people who cannot wrap their brains around this, should refrain from posting.

This is software politics...nothing more...but keep posting...I'll find some popcorn

And this is why linux will never matter to consumers...ditch the fanboy glases...and widen the picture

 

[Genx87]

Really, it is quite adorable. You are apparently completely incapable of grasping why Linus hates Nvidia. Hint: it has nothing to do with driver quality.

I have been saying he is whining about Nvidia's lack of an open source driver. Not the quality of the driver. Did you even read what you just responded to?

 

[blackened23]

False, the reson why NVIDIA driver work so well under Linux is because they are not open source, but NVIDIA proporitary..and that ticked off poor little Linux...who now look like Richard Stallman...not a good thing.

"Open source" POLICIES are the crux here...not performance...people who cannot wrap their brains around this, should refrain from posting.

This is software politics...nothing more...but keep posting...I'll find some popcorn

And this is why linux will never matter to consumers...ditch the fanboy glases...and widen the picture

lol

 

[Homeles]

False, the reson why NVIDIA driver work so well under Linux is because they are not open source, but NVIDIA proporitary..and that ticked off poor little Linux...who now look like Richard Stallman...not a good thing.

"Open source" POLICIES are the crux here...not performance...people who cannot wrap their brains around this, should refrain from posting.

This is software politics...nothing more...but keep posting...I'll find some popcorn

And this is why linux will never matter to consumers...ditch the fanboy glases...and widen the picture

You apparently are severely lacking in reading comprehension, because that's exactly what I'm saying. It's more than just GPU drivers though.

Although open vs. closed has nothing (or very little) to do with performance.

I have been saying he is whining about Nvidia's lack of an open source driver. Not the quality of the driver. Did you even read what you just responded to?

You have continually insinuated that driver quality is somehow related:

If he doesnt like Nvidia, AMD is worse.

You mean their promotion of closed drivers that work? Boohooo.

This is completely and utterly not the case. No matter how many times you try and bring up the issue, it's completely irrelevant to the topic at hand. Your incessant need to bring it up is quite showing.

Linus's problems with Nvidia extend farther than the issue of open vs. closed source drivers.

 

[amenx]

Linus's problems with Nvidia extend farther than the issue of open vs. closed source drivers.

OK. Thanks for letting us know. I'm quite torn up about this. *grabs sledge hammer to smash NV card*.

 

[Cerb]

Well he also attacks Microsoft, Apple etc in the same way. So the BS about people siding with nVidia is nonsense. The man is pissy and cant behave himself in public to say it directly. I dont care if he is a legend, if he is a tech guru or anything else. You simply dont behave like he does.

If you're not out to please everyone you meet, sure you do. The big business people save their venting for private meetings. He's not there to be the next Steve Jobs, and he doesn't try to be. He's there to make sure the least amount of crap gets merged.

Who he is? I think he is a bit unstable to publicly lash out at a company who he wished he had better relations with.

No, a company he wishes would act differently, and which we all know will not, until real hardware customers need them to. He doesn't really care about having better relations with them. He'd probably prefer not to need to have any relations with them.

I thought this guy was a businessman? Apparently not so much.

FTFY. He's an OS programmer with enough management skills not to have royally screwed up Linux's early development. He's not CEO of Linux, inc., and he's not trying to sell anything.

And isn't Linux just a GUI for the Unix OS?

No. It is a Unix clone. It mimics Unix in most ways, but is not Unix. Solaris, for instance, is a real Unix. It has only fairly recently begun to get any meaningful graphics functionality, and by itself, offers no GUI. You can run it entirely from a serial port, if you'd like to (for some embedded platforms, that's basically your one I/O option, though USB and ethernet have been marginalizing that sort of thing). Technically, the Linux kernel doesn't even give you a usable command line interface, by itself, though nobody really distributes it or works with it without at least Busybox.

If only they would make a desktop OS interface like my smartphone. Oh yeah, they did. It's called Windows.

Windows 8, maybe. No released Windows does, and the longer we get to keep such interface away from desktops and notebooks, the better.

 

[exar333]

I know who he is. But what he is doing is very damaging. If Linux only evolves around Linus. Then what happens when Linus aint there anymore? His behavious is very destructive, specially towards Linux.

Agreed.

He acts like an upset little child and wonders why more people don't use his software. What an a$$.

 

[Vesku]

I'd actually say Linus was showing a lot of restraint for the years and years he kept telling the rest of the kernel devs to patiently request cooperation. You can't burn a bridge that doesn't exist. He probably should have said F-U to a few other companies as well, but the persons question was regarding Nvidia and Linus seemed extra annoyed that people often place blame for things not working with the OS instead of the device makers.

Who he is? I think he is a bit unstable to publicly lash out at a company who he wished he had better relations with. I thought this guy was smart? Apparently not so much. And isn't Linux just a GUI for the Unix OS? If Unix didn't exist, I don't think Linus could have created the Linux Kernel, no? I'm not saying what he did wasn't cool, but, I think he was the one who just happened to do it first. That's all. I gave up on Linux many years ago. I wasn't a mainstream user, but I did dabble with it as a side interest. Haven't looked back.
I will say that Android, which is supposed to be based on the Linux Kernel, is awesome. If only they would make a desktop OS interface like my smartphone. Oh yeah, they did. It's called Windows.

 

[Lonbjerg]

This is in the wrong subforum.
this has nothing to do with videocards...but all to do with open source and the hippies around that policy.

Move this garbage to this forum:

http://forums.anandtech.com/forumdisplay.php?f=46

It's the only place an open source vs closed source debate has it's home...even though I know the red camp is dying for something positive...this isn't.

 

[AnandThenMan]

Only 2-3% of the current kernel code was developed by Linus Torvolds.

It's Torvalds.

How many lines of code do you think Bill Gates wrote himself for Windows? Firstly, Linus is widely known as a coding genius, but his real genius is knowing how to merge all the contributing code together and make it work. Linux is an incredibly fast and stable system, and it utilizes multi-core and memory far better than Windows for starters. The network stack is also really amazing.

I thought this guy was smart? Apparently not so much.

You are judging his intelligence based on a single statement?

 

[Imouto]

Well, 3dsmax...not on Linux. There's a 3D program I forget the name of but I don't know about it.

Blender. Fully functional and free while 3dsmax is 3,500 USD. Wonder which one will become the starting point for new 3D artists. It's true that the current professional software is better but the gap is smaller every year like right now you dont need Windows for your everyday's software.

 

[Gordon Freemen]

Is it because Nvidia doesn't think Linus' toys are worth playing with and now he has a fit?

Really...Nvidia wants to make money, Linux doesn't seem to be the place for them to do it. If I were Nvidia I know I wouldn't devote much in the way of resources to Linux.

Your not very smart being that Linux is better than Windows in almost every way and Steam will be Native on Linux at some point soon. OPENGL FTW !