one peron's thought, but many have found it to include very logical explanations on a lot of topics including chrisitanity
one peron's thought, but many have found it to include very logical explanations on a lot of topics including chrisitanity
I agree! w00t w00t I'm in the top 0.1 percentile! But I went and ruined it with w00t w00t, oh well. no one's perfect. (Not even god)
Originally posted by: element
Originally posted by: Forsythe
Wait wait wait there young man! I'm studying physucs, gravity is predictableWe just don't know what it is!
Yes we do, study more.
Uhm... We do??? Please elaborate!
Originally posted by: AyashiKaibutsu
Originally posted by: upsciLLion
Originally posted by: Forsythe
Originally posted by: Darthvoy
Originally posted by: Forsythe
I am a complete atheist, nuff said about me.
Give me arguments on why i should believe. Please keep it trool free (as if
If you're unsure what a logical argument is? then look here: Wikipedia.org
I will naturally refer from namecalling, of _any_ sorts, and urge you to do the same.
Also, wouldn't it be cool in nobody else than religious ppl posted their arguments, so it wouldn't be a total flame post?
Let me tell you of the Intelligent design argument I learned in my philosophy class. If you think about a mechanical watch, it is obvious it was designed by an intelligent mind. Every part of the watch has its purpose and they all work together to make the whole thing work. If one part is taken out off of the watch it will stop working. Now, if you look at how we are designed, you can make the similar argument. We have billions of cells in our bodies and they all have their specific purpose. If you look at how our bodies break up food and how certain enzymes break up certain types of protein, and how our organs work together to keep us alive, one can conclude that we are of intelligent design. However, this type of argument tells us nothing about out our designer. e.i. whether he is good or bad.
I don't really see your point, but i don't see why you say it's a creator (the description "Intelligent design2 is used to make the "argument" sound plausible) that created us. With even a little brain-power, you can imagine the way evolution works, apply it to the current physiological view of our body (or any body), and then it all seems to make sense...
Until you start thinking about the numbers behind the probability of things falling into place on their own.
and then you realize how long the universe has measurably been around. Don't tell me your young earth stuff either. All the stuff I've read on it has been pure BS.
The first spark of life was the hard part. After that survival loaded the dice. When you look at all the galaxies and all the starts and all the planets it's not surprising that the dice came up "life" in atleast one of the cases.
The argument about a young earth comes from a very literal interpretation of Genesis. Ancient Hebrew is a much simpler language than the advanced modern English that you and I speak. The term, "day," in this context meant much closer to, "working time," or, "period of work," (you get the idea), not 23 hours 59 minutes and 15 seconds.
Of course that fact is seldom acknowledged as fundamentalists will always think they're right and it's easier to make fun of the Bible from a critic's standpoint if that fact is disregarded and instead the literal interpretation considered.
I don't see how the first spark loaded the dice. It still had to survive long enough to propogate. Each step along the way there were hazards that endangered each moment of existence. I'm not saying it's not possible, but to devote more probability to a possibility is just silly.
StageLeft
No Lifer
- Sep 29, 2000
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Give me good atheist arguements. OK, I'm out of the thread!
That's all I'll say on it. These threads 100% of the time are total sh*t, so I won't even bother returning to it, but goodluck!
Blind faith is ignorance. An educated guess is deduction. Nobody gets through life without making educated guesses and relying on probabilties. Thus, one can believe in something by taking a "leap of faith". They have reason and facts in front of them, but they can't quite connect every dot, so they take that leap.
That's all I'll say on it. These threads 100% of the time are total sh*t, so I won't even bother returning to it, but goodluck!
Ever notice these threads are always started by someone with very few posts (I'm not saying post count matters; it doesn't - but this is the general trend) and they never reply to the flamewar they start?
At any rate, concerning the watch analogy; the odds against it have been at least partially offset by the many billions of years life has existed and evolved on earth. Also, consider that if it didn't work out, we wouldn't be here to wonder about it. We haven't a clue about life on other planets, what has worked & what hasn't, if we're lucky, average, or unlucky, etc. You have no frame of reference to make a statement such as "Until you start thinking about the numbers behind the probability of things falling into place on their own".
BTW good find Schadenfroh, I had read (or maybe seen on Discovery or PBS... *shrug*) something about that but could never be bothered googling it for when it has come up in theological discussions here There's not a shred of doubt in my mind that religion (among many other things we wouldn't think of or wouldn't care to admit) is based in our genetic code. /bookmark
At any rate, concerning the watch analogy; the odds against it have been at least partially offset by the many billions of years life has existed and evolved on earth. Also, consider that if it didn't work out, we wouldn't be here to wonder about it. We haven't a clue about life on other planets, what has worked & what hasn't, if we're lucky, average, or unlucky, etc. You have no frame of reference to make a statement such as "Until you start thinking about the numbers behind the probability of things falling into place on their own".
BTW good find Schadenfroh, I had read (or maybe seen on Discovery or PBS... *shrug*) something about that but could never be bothered googling it for when it has come up in theological discussions here
There's not a shred of doubt in my mind that religion (among many other things we wouldn't think of or wouldn't care to admit) is based in our genetic code. /bookmark"Belief to me is ignorance."
So if you have never smashed your finger with a hammer but beileve that it would indeed hurt. What are you ignorant of?
Intelligent design looks at the result of 1,000 coin flips and says "the probability of that exact result is only 1/(2^1000) therefore God must have flipped the coin."
The argument has no merit since they consider the probability of that exact result, and not all of the similar possible results.
Read a little science fiction (or study some xenobiology I suppose) and you'll realize hairless ape-men with upside-down optic sensors and helper bacteria are just one of an almost inifinite set of possible ways that intelligent life could have evolved.
The argument has no merit since they consider the probability of that exact result, and not all of the similar possible results.
Read a little science fiction (or study some xenobiology I suppose) and you'll realize hairless ape-men with upside-down optic sensors and helper bacteria are just one of an almost inifinite set of possible ways that intelligent life could have evolved.
Does he say that all the time or something? is that like an athiest motto? Cuz i've heard it in a debate a while back. I wonder if you're quoting from it or another place...
lol, this is reminding me more and more of the presidential debate! That was what i ment, religious belief, because i think there is absolutely noindication of a god, the opposite ofcourse, is in abundance!
The attitude you present is the problem. You say you are an atheist, and will not change. Why should I bother posting my reasons for believing in a god?
exactly...you have to be open to listen/reading other points of view before you can truly accept yours as being the correct one.
Look... Here's the fact, there's as big a reason in believing in santa claus, as there is to believe in god!
And if you know human nature as well as i do, you definently know why people start believing!
If we examine the cheical's in her brain, we'll be able to se that she does. Why is something neurobiologists will be able to tell us once!
That's partly why I'm an agnostic rather than an atheist.
There is no scientific evidence for the existence of a god or gods, and their exsitence is not required for the appearance of the universe or intelligent life. But that does nothing (despite what atheists might like) to disprove the existence of a god or gods.
I have no faith, and only faith can create belief in supernatural forces that can't be proven logically. But I like the idea of a spiritual component to mankind and the existence of being(s) that ask us to strive to better ourselves.
Sorry about that mistake! I am indeed very open! If i see at least one shred of evidence, i will become religious! I'm very proud of that feat. as i'm like that under any circumstances, and i never have any problems admitting my mistakes! This is probably also the only thing about myself i have to be proud of! Infact, it is the only thing in the world i'm proud off. But that's a rather deep story!
then please...i would encourage you to read the book:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obi...p;s=books&n=507846
Too complicated; it's as simple as the fact that there's evidence for it; mothers tend to tell their children they love them and do selfless things for them. The fact that it's merely one of the evolved behaviors concerning propagation is beyond the scope of this thread
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