Good for WI

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,505
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http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...74953308680920.html?KEYWORDS=wisconsin+crisis

Wisconsin may not be able to refinance $165 million in debt as planned in the municipal bond market this week or next, but that doesn't mean the state is in any kind of immediate fiscal peril.

Wisconsin has taken center stage this budget season, as Gov. Scott Walker, a Republican, has pushed to eliminate most of the collective bargaining rights for the state's 170,000 public employees through a controversial budget "repair bill." Democratic state senators have fled the state to avoid voting on the measure.

Mr. Walker's latest tactic to lure them back has been threatening to make additional cuts or more layoffs, should the state be unable to refinance $165 million in debt for short-term budget relief. Under his plan, the state would issue a 10-year bond to restructure a debt payment that otherwise would be due May 1.

The state had originally planned to do the refinancing deal either this week or next, said Frank Hoadley, the state's capital finance director.

"We are like everyone else ... waiting to see what happens," he said. "As everything stands at the moment, if the legislation is not passed, then the opportunity [to refinance the bonds] would be lost."

According to the nonpartisan Wisconsin Legislative Fiscal Bureau, issuing new bonds typically takes at least two weeks, and that process must be complete by March 16. The new financing is projected to add $42 million in interest payments over the next 10 years, said Al Runde, a fiscal analyst with the bureau.

But the notion that the state needs to refinance the debt because it's broke and can't make its debt payments is "completely wrong," said Mr. Hoadley, the state finance director.

"This is about providing relief to the budget situation by rearranging the payments," over a longer period, he said.

However, there are other ways to address Wisconsin's current fiscal year budget deficit of $137 million other than refinancing the debt, said Joshua Zeitz, municipal finance analyst for MF Global.

On Monday, state Sen. Mark Miller, one of the 14 Democrats who fled to Illinois, proposed several accounting changes in the current state budget as an alternative to the bond refinancing.

A memo from the state's Legislative Fiscal Bureau has also suggested the governor could use $79 million in surplus funds from various state accounts.

Tax-anticipation notes might be another solution, as would be delaying payments to vendors, Mr. Zeitz said.

The shortfall is about 0.5% of the state's overall budget, a fairly inconsequential amount, he said.

And since unions have already agreed to proposed givebacks on compensation and benefits, "it's becoming increasingly clear that this is a question more of politics than it is of a budget crisis," Mr. Zeitz added.

Indeed, Wisconsin is considered a very creditworthy state, with a double-A credit rating, and compared with some lower-rated states like California and Illinois, its finances are more manageable.

While Wisconsin does face a $3.6 billion deficit in its spending cycle over the next two years, that is equivalent to about 0.75% of its economic output over that time. By comparison, California's $25.4 billion one-year budget gap is equivalent to more than 1.3% of its output and Illinois' $15 billion deficit is equivalent to almost 2.4%.

When looking at the projected budget deficits as a percentage of the current year's budget amount, the comparison becomes even more stark. Wisconsin's $1.8 billion deficit for fiscal 2012 is just 12.8% of its current fiscal year budget, according to the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities. Meanwhile, California's $25.4 billion shortfall is 29.3% of its current budget, while that figure for Illinois, which faces a $15 billion budget hole, is 44.9%, the nonprofit policy group said.

"There's a good amount of political theater in what you're seeing," said Tom Kozlik, municipal credit analyst at Janney Montgomery Scott. "With any state, I'd really question whether they are going to fall off a cliff over one budget cycle."

That may explain why Wisconsin's bonds have been little changed in the secondary market despite the recent turmoil in the state's capital over the collective bargaining issue.

According to Thomson Reuters Municipal Market Data, 10-year Wisconsin debt trades around 31 basis points, or 0.31 percentage point, over a benchmark scale of top-rated state bonds.

That's compared with 10-year debt from Illinois, which trades around 200 basis points, or 2 percentage points, over the same scale.

That shows that the muni bond market "is confident that the state of Wisconsin, despite the protests and disagreements, will continue to make principal and interest payments [on debt] in a timely fashion. End of story," said Gary Pollack, head of fixed income and research at Deutsche Bank Private Wealth Management.

Good fiscal news, but I still think collective bargaining has to go for all public employees (including police and firefighters).
 

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
40,730
670
126
Good fiscal news, but I still think collective bargaining has to go for all public employees (including police and firefighters).

That would have been the honest way for the governor to approach bargaining rights, instead of pandering to the police who typically vote Republican.

Saying all unions (except these ones that give me votes) must be busted is hypocrisy plain and simple.

If state workers having wage bargaining rights is bad for teachers then it's bad for firefighters too. If firefighters need the rights, why don't teachers?
 

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,505
2
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And the reason why is?

1. It will save money.

2. Most of the things that they've been using collective bargaining for are already afforded by WI's civil service law.

I'm a public employee.. and have been for most of my career. I've never been in any union, though.. and I don't want to be. Not only is it no one's responsibility but my own to be my advocate at the employment bargaining table, no one but me can do a better job of it.
 
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comptr6

Senior member
Feb 22, 2011
246
0
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And since unions have already agreed to proposed givebacks on compensation and benefits, "it's becoming increasingly clear that this is a question more of politics than it is of a budget crisis," Mr. Zeitz added.

Indeed, Wisconsin is considered a very creditworthy state, with a double-A credit rating, and compared with some lower-rated states like California and Illinois, its finances are more manageable.
Wow, more idiotic leftist propaganda. I'm surprised to see that the Journal allowed this garbage to be published.

I still think collective bargaining has to go for all public employees (including police and firefighters).

Absolutely. The budget issues are secondary, we need to stop the unions and their anti-American agenda right here and right now before it's to late.
 

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
22,350
4,973
136
If state workers having wage bargaining rights is bad for teachers then it's bad for firefighters too. If firefighters need the rights, why don't teachers?

Read up more. They are not taking away their ability to collectively bargain for wages. They are placing guidelines and limits on it to keep it within the realm of sanity.
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
0
I've always thought unions for public employees never made sense. But then again I've always thought the lack of a 50 thousand dollar salary cap for government employees is a bit ridiculous as well.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
3
0
Read up more. They are not taking away their ability to collectively bargain for wages. They are placing guidelines and limits on it to keep it within the realm of sanity.

So what you are suggesting is that those in charge of negotiating contracts for the government aren't up to it? Seems like they have done well in this instance, getting the unions tpo concede some benefits. I guess you feel comfortable stacking the deck on the Governments side. And you have the nerve to talk about the Government having to much power.

You know it wasn't hide behind the computer cowards like you that brought down the Communist Government in Poland, it was the Unions. And it's cowards like you that'll enable our government to enslave us.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Wow, more idiotic leftist propaganda...

Absolutely. The budget issues are secondary, we need to stop the unions and their anti-American agenda right here and right now before it's to late.

Irony of the week award.
 

feralkid

Lifer
Jan 28, 2002
16,858
4,972
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Absolutely. The budget issues are secondary, we need to stop the unions and their anti-Republican agenda right here and right now before it's to late.

Refreshing....
Now that the RNC has essentially admitted this whole kerfuffle had nothing to do with anything except trying to fuck the Democrats.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,948
126
Refreshing....
Now that the RNC has essentially admitted this whole kerfuffle had nothing to do with anything except trying to fuck the Democrats.

Yeah this was on the news. They basically said that since union members are paid by taxes and union members give money to the unions and the unions are giving that money to democrats that the tax payers are giving money to democrats. hehehe. Slimy little fucks they are.
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126
Yeah this was on the news. They basically said that since union members are paid by taxes and union members give money to the unions and the unions are giving that money to democrats that the tax payers are giving money to democrats. hehehe. Slimy little fucks they are.

Taxpayers paid union worker's salaries... union workers buy gasoline for their cars... the gasoline money goes to oil companies... the oil companies use that money to buy more oil from the middle east... those countries use that money to fund TURRRRISTTS.

Send all taxpayers to GITMO for supporting terrorism.

I am using foxnews logic.
 

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
22,350
4,973
136
(1) So what you are suggesting is that those in charge of negotiating contracts for the government aren't up to it?

(2) I guess you feel comfortable stacking the deck on the Governments side. And you have the nerve to talk about the Government having to much power.

(3)You know it wasn't hide behind the computer cowards like you that brought down the Communist Government in Poland, it was the Unions. And it's cowards like you that'll enable our government to enslave us.

1) I'm not suggesting anything. I was only pointing out the fact that they are not trying to take away Collective bargaining in its entirety. They want to place limits tied to the economy.

2) I never said stack the deck either way. I never stated anything about the government having too much power.

3) Yeah right. The union... what ever. What makes me a " Computer Coward "? I really don't know what the fuck you are babbling about, it didn't make much sense as a response to my post that you quoted.
 
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sao123

Lifer
May 27, 2002
12,653
205
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I've always thought unions for public employees never made sense. But then again I've always thought the lack of a 50 thousand dollar salary cap for government employees is a bit ridiculous as well.

I'm sure they'll take a 50K pay cap as soon as all the workers in the private industry do...
 

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,505
2
0
I've always thought unions for public employees never made sense. But then again I've always thought the lack of a 50 thousand dollar salary cap for government employees is a bit ridiculous as well.

In perpetuity, regardless of inflation?
 

tk149

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2002
7,253
1
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I don't know much about this organization, but if these facts are true, how could ANYONE http://www.unionfacts.com/states/state.cfm?state=WIjustify this?

Wisconsin is not a 'right to work' state. Employees in a unionized company can be forced to pay "agency fees" to the union, even if they refuse to be union members.

State-level Political Donations
Public sector unions give thousands of dollars to local legislators, often in an effort to guarantee exorbitant benefits from the state.

Total Contributions
Democrat $ 473,152
Other $ 26,632
Republican $ 20,960
Source: Institute on Money in State Politics, 2004-2006
 

thraashman

Lifer
Apr 10, 2000
11,112
1,587
126
Wow, more idiotic leftist propaganda. I'm surprised to see that the Journal allowed this garbage to be published.



Absolutely. The budget issues are secondary, we need to stop the unions and their anti-American agenda right here and right now before it's to late.

Wow, this guy is fast trying to earn the award for the most unintelligent poster in P&N. Unions are in fact a very American concept. The right of the common worker and the ability to be represented in a fashion on equal grounds to powers in charge is about the most American thing there is. It's all about equality and free speech. Unions represent the free speech of the worker with a voice loud enough to be heard. I can see that you have no idea of what it means to be American. It saddens me to think that there are people who call themselves American who think like you.
 

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
13,755
11,374
136
Wow, this guy is fast trying to earn the award for the most unintelligent poster in P&N. Unions are in fact a very American concept. The right of the common worker and the ability to be represented in a fashion on equal grounds to powers in charge is about the most American thing there is. It's all about equality and free speech. Unions represent the free speech of the worker with a voice loud enough to be heard. I can see that you have no idea of what it means to be American. It saddens me to think that there are people who call themselves American who think like you.

My guess is he's had that award before under a different username ...
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Wow, this guy is fast trying to earn the award for the most unintelligent poster in P&N. Unions are in fact a very American concept. The right of the common worker and the ability to be represented in a fashion on equal grounds to powers in charge is about the most American thing there is. It's all about equality and free speech. Unions represent the free speech of the worker with a voice loud enough to be heard. I can see that you have no idea of what it means to be American. It saddens me to think that there are people who call themselves American who think like you.

I have no problem with people who don't think enough of themselves wanting to join a group that they think will make their voice heard... however this is not what unions are today. They've become what they used to fight and have infact become anti-american and anti-freespeech. Try speaking out on something you have a different opinion on if you are in a union... yeah, that gets you pretty far. Forcing others to pay and/or join? yeah, that's american :rolleyes: