Good circumaural headphones, ~$50

[moonboy403]

Cheesehead, if you hate headphones so much, why do you use them?

Better yet, why even go for a UE 10?

 

[cheesehead]

Originally posted by: moonboy403
Cheesehead, if you hate headphones so much, why do you use them?

Better yet, why even go for a UE 10?

Headphones, for all of their flaws, are much more convenient. You can use them without annoying anyone in the room next door, you can take them almost anywhere, and you can use them to ignore external noise. Furthermore, you don't have the endless headaches involved with room placement, tweeter level, off-axis dispersion, and the many other problems specific only to speakers. I own headphones for the same reason that someone might trade their Miata for a minivan - while the latter is horrible to drive, uncomfortable, and inefficient, it's the only way to go if you want to haul around a bunch of kids.

The UE10s are the first IEMs I've ever listened to that I actually liked. (Previous IEMs include E3Cs and im716s - the latter weren't too bad for the $45 I paid for them.) If I can finagle some more comfortable eartips, I might even sell the DT250s. And the prices keep dropping as the sound quality keeps rising: the use of compression drivers means that it's possible to use separate drivers for different frequency bands, something not possible with traditional cone-based headphones.

 

[moonboy403]

Besides the lack of chest thumping bass and soundstaging, what are the flaws in headphones in terms of sound quality?

The use of separate drivers in iems don't mean that they're any better than their full size counterpart at the same price range. Have you ever tried higher end full size headphones with a decent amp? Maybe even Stax as you can have overall sound quality that can't be bested by dynamic headphones for a mere $300?

 

[hans030390]

Originally posted by: Cheesehead
V6s are pretty good in terms of low noise leakage - they're the only non-IEM headphones I've used that could be listened to on a bus without cranking up the output to absurd levels.

I tested them out. Maybe they weren't a good pair or something, but I thought they sounded like crap.

Actually, to be honest, I listened to these, but they are apparently the exact same headphone (just with a gold plated plug and different label on the outside).

 

[cheesehead]

Originally posted by: moonboy403
Besides the lack of chest thumping bass and soundstaging, what are the flaws in headphones in terms of sound quality?

Harmonic distortion is high, energy storage is high, the frequency response is not flat, and there's a major roll-off at around 60hz and 8khz on most headphones.

Originally posted by: moonboy403
The use of separate drivers in iems don't mean that they're any better than their full size counterpart at the same price range. Have you ever tried higher end full size headphones with a decent amp? Maybe even Stax as you can have overall sound quality that can't be bested by dynamic headphones for a mere $300?

IEMs are currently a technology in development, but using a driver optimized for high frequencies and one or two drivers optimized for lower frequencies is easier than building headphones to work over the whole range. While even the best of IEMs are still a category below such headphones as the DT880s and HD650s, the combination of portability and noise isolation make them much more practical than a big pair of cans. (The DT250s, for example, must be cranked up to unsafe levels if you want to listen to them on the bus.)

I have listened to full-size headphones with a decent amp - say, my now-sold K240s and current DT250s. I'm currently trying to get a pair of HD600s as well.

I have never listened to any Stax products, mostly because I really can't justify spending that much cash on a pair of headphones that are fragile, non-portable, have nearly zero noise isolation, and still won't sound as good as my speakers.

Originally posted by: hans030390

I tested them out. Maybe they weren't a good pair or something, but I thought they sounded like crap.

I'm not a huge fan of the MDR-V6's sound - this is why I bought the Beyerdynamics. However, I prefer them to the SR60s, and in terms of durability and noise isolation, they're pretty impressive.

 

[moonboy403]

I don't know what speakers you have but as many speakers enthusiasts have found out when they were converted to using headphones, speakers in the $10k range are matched by headphones and amp combos that cost around $1k in terms of sound quality save for the cheat thumping bass that I mentioned and soundstaging.

As for the frequency response of headphones not looking flat, it's because in order for someone to hear a flat/neutral sound from headphones, those headphones must be EQ'd at a setting other than neutral/flat. In other words, a headphone with a perfectly flat frequency response will NOT sound flat/neutral. Headphones are just different than speakers.

 

[Tiamat]

Originally posted by: moonboy403
I don't know what speakers you have but as many speakers enthusiasts have found out when they were converted to using headphones, speakers in the $10k range are matched by headphones and amp combos that cost around $1k in terms of sound quality save for the cheat thumping bass that I mentioned and soundstaging.

As for the frequency response of headphones not looking flat, it's because in order for someone to hear a flat/neutral sound from headphones, those headphones must be EQ'd at a setting other than neutral/flat. In other words, a headphone with a perfectly flat frequency response will NOT sound flat/neutral. Headphones are just different than speakers.

I have to say that I enjoy speakers far more than headphones. Headphones lack the stereo soundstage that speakers have (except on binaural recordings through headphones). They lack the bass impact, and the high treble. Every headphone I have tried (while playing stereo) has the "inside your head" type soundstage that just does not sound realistic at all.

Most of my music, games, etc. are encoded in stereo so that is how I rate them.

 

[moonboy403]

Originally posted by: Tiamat

Originally posted by: moonboy403
I don't know what speakers you have but as many speakers enthusiasts have found out when they were converted to using headphones, speakers in the $10k range are matched by headphones and amp combos that cost around $1k in terms of sound quality save for the cheat thumping bass that I mentioned and soundstaging.

As for the frequency response of headphones not looking flat, it's because in order for someone to hear a flat/neutral sound from headphones, those headphones must be EQ'd at a setting other than neutral/flat. In other words, a headphone with a perfectly flat frequency response will NOT sound flat/neutral. Headphones are just different than speakers.

I have to say that I enjoy speakers far more than headphones. Headphones lack the stereo soundstage that speakers have (except on binaural recordings through headphones). They lack the bass impact, and the high treble. Every headphone I have tried (while playing stereo) has the "inside your head" type soundstage that just does not sound realistic at all.

Most of my music, games, etc. are encoded in stereo so that is how I rate them.

I'm just curious, which headphones have you tried since treble is one of the things that headphones do especially well in.

I certainly agree that headphones lack bass impact and the natural soundstaging capability of speakers though. On the other hands, there are quite a few headphones that are capable of the "out of your head" or at least "not completely in your head" experience without the use of binaural material.

 

[Tiamat]

Originally posted by: moonboy403

Originally posted by: Tiamat

Originally posted by: moonboy403
I don't know what speakers you have but as many speakers enthusiasts have found out when they were converted to using headphones, speakers in the $10k range are matched by headphones and amp combos that cost around $1k in terms of sound quality save for the cheat thumping bass that I mentioned and soundstaging.

As for the frequency response of headphones not looking flat, it's because in order for someone to hear a flat/neutral sound from headphones, those headphones must be EQ'd at a setting other than neutral/flat. In other words, a headphone with a perfectly flat frequency response will NOT sound flat/neutral. Headphones are just different than speakers.

I have to say that I enjoy speakers far more than headphones. Headphones lack the stereo soundstage that speakers have (except on binaural recordings through headphones). They lack the bass impact, and the high treble. Every headphone I have tried (while playing stereo) has the "inside your head" type soundstage that just does not sound realistic at all.

Most of my music, games, etc. are encoded in stereo so that is how I rate them.

I'm just curious, which headphones have you tried since treble is one of the things that headphones do especially well in.

I certainly agree that headphones lack bass impact and the natural soundstaging capability of speakers though. On the other hands, there are quite a few headphones that are capable of the "out of your head" experience without the use of binaural material.

Above 10khz, most headphones have problems due to the early reflections within the headphone and perhaps other reasons.

I've listened to Koss Portapros, Grado SR-80, SR-125, SR-225, Sennheiser HD-555, HD-595, Beyer DT-990, AKG K601. Most if not all headphones I have seen measured have dips above 10khz making cymbals and bells just sound unrealistic.

The one headphone that I would like to hear is the Denon D2000. Unfortunately, I just don't have the funds and nowhere I can audition them.

Now, if binaural material was more readily available, headphones + subwoofer would be completely awesome. No compromises due to room dimensions especially if the subwoofer is playing only below 35hz.

 

[moonboy403]

The dips that you have seen in the frequency response graphs of the headphones are due to compensation of the headphones' drivers being so close to the ear which is another reason why if a headphone has a perfectly flat frequency response, it will NOT sound neutral or flat.

There should also be a hump around 40hz to 500hz to compensate for the fact that headphones don?t give you the physical punch or 'impact' that the sound waves from a room speaker have; so a slight compensation for increased bass response is needed for "natural" sound.

 

[moonboy403]

As for the headphones + subwoofer combo, some people use something like bass shaker which works on the concept that low bass is mostly felt and not heard. The bass shaker vibrates whenever it reaches a certain range of frequency (can be set manually). I have not personally tried it, but people have reported that they work very well even with a real subwoofer (for added physical impact).

I can tell you right now that the D2000 is a bit recessed in the mids and the bass is a bit uncontrolled. Still, it's a pretty good value around the $200 range.

 

[Malladine]

Instead of starting a new thread I thought i'd add to this one and ask if any of the recommended ~$50 headphones are closed? I have a pair of SR-80s but would like a pair of closed with good sound quality.

 

[Ika]

Originally posted by: Malladine
Instead of starting a new thread I thought i'd add to this one and ask if any of the recommended ~$50 headphones are closed? I have a pair of SR-80s but would like a pair of closed with good sound quality.

JVC HA-RX700s are closed. I got them for $34 shipped from Buy.com. For the past three years, I've had SR-60s as main headphones - absolutely loved the sound. Switching to RX700s was actually pretty smooth - no sonic shock, and going back and forth between the two is surprisingly easy. The RX700s are now my main headphone, until I can get a better set of Grados 🙂

 

[Malladine]

Thanks Aflac i'll look into those!

 

[frostedflakes]

Also I think the Sennheiser HD201 I was asking about earlier are closed as well, but it sounds like the RX700 are better cans. 🙂

 

[herm0016]

you thought the most popular headphone in recording studios across the world "sounded like crap"? the 7506 has a little more around 2k. they are more fatiguing to listen to than the v6. otherwise they are nearly identical in every way. these are the headphones you will find on just about every mixing console at every concert you ever go to, and in most professional recording studios. watch the extra features about making the music on your DVD's, you will see people wearing them. these both have pretty flat responce, so if you are used to very colored sound they will sound different.

 

[evident]

i think headfi had a sale on grado sr-60's for around $60 around christmas time. dunno if they are still on sale anymore though.. those grados are heralded as the best headphones under $100

 

[cheesehead]

I might point out that most mastering products don't necessarily sound that good. The point of a good pair of studio headphones or monitors is to give a mix that sounds good on other peoples' equipment; as such, some truly horrible speakers can make absolutely brilliant monitors.

Originally posted by: evident
i think headfi had a sale on grado sr-60's for around $60 around christmas time. dunno if they are still on sale anymore though.. those grados are heralded as the best headphones under $100

New, the 7506s/V6s are $100, and, as such, are not in the same sub-$100 category.

Which is why you should buy them refurbished instead. It's not like you have to worry about them wearing out.

 

[hans030390]

Originally posted by: herm0016
you thought the most popular headphone in recording studios across the world "sounded like crap"? the 7506 has a little more around 2k. they are more fatiguing to listen to than the v6. otherwise they are nearly identical in every way. these are the headphones you will find on just about every mixing console at every concert you ever go to, and in most professional recording studios. watch the extra features about making the music on your DVD's, you will see people wearing them. these both have pretty flat responce, so if you are used to very colored sound they will sound different.

I'm used to a more bass colored sort of sound, but I try to keep things as natural as possible. The Sony headphones just made my music sound like crap...it didn't even sound like I was listening to real instruments or something.

 

[swbsam]

Originally posted by: herm0016
you thought the most popular headphone in recording studios across the world "sounded like crap"? the 7506 has a little more around 2k. they are more fatiguing to listen to than the v6. otherwise they are nearly identical in every way. these are the headphones you will find on just about every mixing console at every concert you ever go to, and in most professional recording studios. watch the extra features about making the music on your DVD's, you will see people wearing them. these both have pretty flat responce, so if you are used to very colored sound they will sound different.

There's a huge difference between professional gear and consumer gear. I shoot a lot of indie film/ video and our sound guys would love the V6 - clinical sound, good isolation and they would hate the grados - poor isolation and more "musical" sound... So techs using the v6 don't necessarily mean that they're superior, especially for casual listening.

 

[moonboy403]

A lot of the house sound such as Grado and Audio Technica have this love or hate relationship. People either LOVE em or HATE em.

 

[cheesehead]

Originally posted by: moonboy403
A lot of the house sound such as Grado and Audio Technica have this love or hate relationship. People either LOVE em or HATE em.

On the other hand, headphones like the DT880 are very, very flat. They supposedly don't really have a sound at all. Which is why I want a pair. 🙂

 

[Ika]

Originally posted by: frostedflakes
Also I think the Sennheiser HD201 I was asking about earlier are closed as well, but it sounds like the RX700 are better cans. 🙂

They are, but they're not really worth your time with the JVC around 😉. I'll be hard-pressed to find ANYTHING that competes with the JVC in it's price range. I really wish I had access to A-T A700s or A900s for reference, but it's rumored that the HA-RX700/RX900 use the same drivers that are in the Audio Technicas... for 1/5th of the price, that's pretty exciting.

 

[frostedflakes]

Well they showed up yesterday and so far I'm liking them. Not as close to the A500 sound as I was expecting (maybe because these are semi-open), but I still like them. Also I used a cheap CMoy when I had my A500s, so that probably makes a difference (been a while, but I remember the A500s having a bit more punch than the RX700). Cord is thicker than I was expecting, and very flexible, which is nice. Build quality in general seems good, at least for $35 cans. Pretty comfy. They do let in a bit more sound than I would have preferred, but that's far from a deal-breaker, I can live with it.

Don't know, I'm not a big audiophile so I don't know how much insight I can offer into sound quality. If you guys have any specific questions though ask away, I'll do my best to answer them. 🙂

 

[hans030390]

Buy.com just sent me a shipping confirmation, so I'll also have thoughts on them in a few days. I'll burn them in as well and see how much of a difference that makes.

I also ordered a Fiio E3 amp from Dealextreme, so hopefully that will be a nice add on.

How are the HA-RX700s as far as sound leakage is concerned? With my Grado SR-60s, people complain about how easily they can hear them.