Golfers - Titleist Pro V1 is worth the money

[GagHalfrunt]

Originally posted by: KnickNut3
For 99% of golfers, the ball they use makes no difference. Sure, when you play a spin ball you should take the longer club when you're in between clubs, but no appreciable performance difference.

That's another myth. Having a ball that fits your game is just as important as having clubs that fit your game and shoes that fit your feet. Due to USGA rules balls pretty much have the same performance potential. Nobody can manufacture a ball that outperforms other balls. It's how they arrive at that performance that's the key. Some balls fly high and spin a lot and others fly low and spin less. Players who hit the ball low on their own would be better fit by having a ball with a higher trajectory and a higher spin rate. Guys who hit it too high or with too much spin need a ball with less spin and a lower initial launch angle. That's why Titleist came out with the ProV1x in addition to the ProV1. The regular ProV1 doesn't fit everyone. It's the same reason that Bridgestone has the B330 and the B330s, why Callaway has the Hx Tour and HX Tour 56, why Nike has the One Black and One Platinum, why Taylormade has the TP Red and the TP Black, why Srixon has the Z-UR and the Z-URS and why every ball company on earth has models that play slightly differently at every price point. The pros spend hours and hours and hours testing balls to get the exact right blend of initial speed, launch angle, full swing spin rate, half-swing spin rate, sound, feel and trajectory. With a million dollars as first place for most tournaments and successful pros making 5-25 million a year (Tiger, Phil, Ernie and guys like that earn significantly more) nobody would be intentionally screwing up their careers just to play a certain ball. They play what works and what fits. The fact that so many guys are playing so many different brands and models proves to anyone with a brain (that leaves JEDIYoda out) that there is no best ball. If there was everyone would be playing it.

 

[BUTCH1]

Don't know if anyone remembers or if it matters, but Tiger signed a $40 million dollar
contract with Nike before he even set foot on the PGA tour..

 

[spidey07]

Well, off to get custom fitted. Maybe they'll tell me what kind of ball I should be playing as well. I've always preferred a softer ball.

But there is something about those MC Laddies/Lady's, I swear they are 30 yards longer on the drive than most other balls I've played. On your home course you'll generally know where and how far your drive is going to be as you hit that area often. These MCs are considerable longer. And cheap to boot.

 

[dethman]

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt
There are many many other balls just as good or better for a lot less money.

thats the favorite saying of a complete neophyte..

ROFLMAO!! Just because you're stupid enough to get suckered into buying something that you don't need, can't use effectively and is overpriced, don't think that everyone is as stupid as you. The world rankings prove that ball superiority is a myth and anyone that can read and understand them knows that. The "read" and "understand" parts are the place where you're failing. The #1 player in the world can use any ball he wants. He uses Nike. The #2 player in the world can use any ball he wants, he choose to play Srixon. The #3 can play any ball he wants, he chooses to use Callaway. Now tell me, please explain it in a way that even your simple mind might be able to grasp is. How are those guys #1-#2-#3 IN THE WORLD if the balls they use are not as good as the ProV1? Go ahead, take your time, don't hurt yourself now.

though i absolutely agree with you that the NOP, hx tour, tp, b330s and other balls can be just as good as the prov1, i don't think the top 3 in the world can use any ball they want.

with their massive endorsement contracts they do have some level of contractual obligation and pressure to play certain balls. it may not be spelled out in writing, but nike would give tiger HUGE pressure if he wanted to switch back to a titleist ball. callaway would raise a royal stink with phil if he wanted to switch to a precept ball.

i think it'd be a fallacy to say since they are ranked 1-2-3-4-5-6 and therefore their choice of ball is better than the prov1, these guys are just so good they just play the ball that pays them the most money.

it IS hard to ignore that the prov completely dominates the amateur and professional tours. whether it's marketing or not is an entirely different issue.

 

[DrPizza]

I think the best way to settle it would be to take someone who claims the ball makes a big difference to a long driving range (something with a green to aim at ~par 3 distance), and have them drive a half dozen each of several different brands... don't let them know which brand they're hitting on each shot. After a quick stroll, it should be easy to figure out if they actually make a difference.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Originally posted by: DrPizza
I think the best way to settle it would be to take someone who claims the ball makes a big difference to a long driving range (something with a green to aim at ~par 3 distance), and have them drive a half dozen each of several different brands... don't let them know which brand they're hitting on each shot. After a quick stroll, it should be easy to figure out if they actually make a difference.

Been done a million times. The ball that wins depends upon the conditions of the test. Some balls do better downwind, some do better into the wind. Some balls do better with soft turf where carry is critical and others come out ahead when the turf is firm and roll is maximized.

You ever see those ads that claim "Brand A is the longest ball" and others that say "Brand B is the longest ball" and still others that say "Brand C is the longest ball"? Which one is telling the truth? Thanks to truth in advertising laws, they're all telling the truth and they all have the data to back it up. if you take 10 random balls and test them you can make them finish in any order you want just by juggling the test conditions. The ball that finishes first when hit at 90mph into a 25mph wind can finish last if the test is repeated with a 110mph swing speed and with a 15mph trailing wind.

Each ball launches slightly differently. They all have different spin rates and different launch angles. The best ball for one player will be the worst for another based on their swing conditions. That's why there's no best ball and no worst. Every aspect of a balls performance is a tradeoff. Increasing spin makes the ball fly higher. That's good for some players and bad for others. Making it firmer might make it perform better at higher swing speeds and worse at lower swing speeds. Changing the dimples will change the trajectory. That will make it better for some swings and worse for others. THERE IS NO BEST BALL just like there's no best driver head, no best shaft, no best irons and no best putter. There's what fits a given player and what doesn't fit a given player. PERIOD.

 

[caboob]

Originally posted by: BUTCH1
Don't know if anyone remembers or if it matters, but Tiger signed a $40 million dollar
contract with Nike before he even set foot on the PGA tour..

and when he initially set foot on tour, he started playing Titleist clubs and balls for the first couple of years of that contract.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: caboob

Originally posted by: BUTCH1
Don't know if anyone remembers or if it matters, but Tiger signed a $40 million dollar
contract with Nike before he even set foot on the PGA tour..

and when he initially set foot on tour, he started playing Titleist clubs and balls for the first couple of years of that contract.

And if I recalled there was some heat that eventually became of that. Nike wasn't even on the golf radar until Tiger.

But then again I'm going from memory here.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: caboob

Originally posted by: BUTCH1
Don't know if anyone remembers or if it matters, but Tiger signed a $40 million dollar
contract with Nike before he even set foot on the PGA tour..

and when he initially set foot on tour, he started playing Titleist clubs and balls for the first couple of years of that contract.

That was a pretty well handled contract - Tiger is pretty much exclusively Nike now, but he never put a Nike product in his bag until he was convinced they were the best thing available for his game (which they should be, since he helped create them).

In the beginning all he had was the Nike hat wasn't it?

 

[Lemodular]

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Originally posted by: caboob

Originally posted by: BUTCH1
Don't know if anyone remembers or if it matters, but Tiger signed a $40 million dollar
contract with Nike before he even set foot on the PGA tour..

and when he initially set foot on tour, he started playing Titleist clubs and balls for the first couple of years of that contract.

That was a pretty well handled contract - Tiger is pretty much exclusively Nike now, but he never put a Nike product in his bag until he was convinced they were the best thing available for his game (which they should be, since he helped create them).

In the beginning all he had was the Nike hat wasn't it?

he played Titliest and wore Nike. Then he played with Nike blades when it became available but stuck to the Titliest for driver(s). Interestingly, his game started to slip at that time. Tiger eventually went all Nike once he help developed the set (and had more time with it).

I used to practice at the PGA Golf center in Port Sait Lucie. For $15 you can hit all day long. For that $15, one can hit endless bucket of their "range" balls which is either Titliest DT, NTX or ProV1!....your choice. One of the nicest facility in the nation.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Originally posted by: Lemodular

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Originally posted by: caboob

Originally posted by: BUTCH1
Don't know if anyone remembers or if it matters, but Tiger signed a $40 million dollar
contract with Nike before he even set foot on the PGA tour..

and when he initially set foot on tour, he started playing Titleist clubs and balls for the first couple of years of that contract.

That was a pretty well handled contract - Tiger is pretty much exclusively Nike now, but he never put a Nike product in his bag until he was convinced they were the best thing available for his game (which they should be, since he helped create them).

In the beginning all he had was the Nike hat wasn't it?

he played Titliest and wore Nike. Then he played with Nike blades when it became available but stuck to the Titliest for driver(s). Interestingly, his game started to slip at that time. Tiger eventually went all Nike once he help developed the set (and had more time with it).

Not quite right. When Tiger turned pro there was no Nike golf gear other than shoes and gloves. So he wore Nike clothes, hat, shoes and glove and played almost exclusively Titleist clubs. He *might* have had a Mizuno club or two in the bag at that point. The first Nike he put into play was the Tour Accuracy TW ball in either late 2000 or early 2001. So he went 4 full years without any Nike clubs at all. I think the first "Nike" clubs he used were the irons which were actually rebadged Miuras custom ground especially for him. Then he went to the Nike driver shortly after, but he flip-flopped back and forth between that and his old Titleist. So as of around 2003 or 2004 he had Nike driver, irons and ball and Titleist 3-wood, wedges and putter. I don't recall whether he swapped out the 3-wood or the Vokey wedges next, but he did both eventually and now has all Nike gear except for his putter. That's still a Titleist Scotty.

His game starting to slip had nothing to do with the clubs. He underwent massive swing changes and lost #1 in the world to David Duval, but that was well before moving to Nike gear. When Duval passed Tiger Tiger was still exclusively Titleist clubs and balls. He overtook Duval after the swing changes took hold and lost it again briefly to Vijay before taking it back.

Don't read too much into that clause Tiger has in his contract that says he's not obligated to play anything he doesn't want to. The standard PGA brand contract is to carry 9-11 clubs from your club sponsor. As a golfer carries 14 clubs they ALL have plenty of wiggle room to add, remove or change gear as they see fit. Most guys are not wall-to-wall with one brand. Most often they'll use different drivers and putters than their sponsor, but they might change hybrids or wedges instead. Name players have even more latitude than that. Nike won't fire Tiger if he only uses 6 Nike clubs, Callaway won't fire Phil or Ernie if they make some extra changes now and again. Hell, there are thousands of instances of guys doing advertising for gear they don't have in the bag. If Tiger stops playing Nike balls temporarily they'll still run the commercials where he's hawking them.

 

[spidey07]

GagHalfrunt,

You boil it down for everybody. Play what is right for you.

Fitting wasn't too impressive, not enough analysis for me - just tape on the bottom of the head and a basic launch monitor - but only on a driver. WTF!

Told me what I already know - I need an inch on the clubs and 1/32 on the grip, regular steel. I expected a lot more.

Cleveland was there to sell drivers, not to truly fit a player to his clubs. I simply asked for a fitting for irons as i was ready to buy and get hooked up. "Well, we don't really fit for irons and don't have much to fit you with." No sale. He wanted to sell me an ENTIRE line of hybrid clubs - 3-PW. Didn't like them.
:thumbsdown:

 

[Lemodular]

Not quite right. When Tiger turned pro there was no Nike golf gear other than shoes and gloves. So he wore Nike clothes, hat, shoes and glove and played almost exclusively Titleist clubs. He *might* have had a Mizuno club or two in the bag at that point. The first Nike he put into play was the Tour Accuracy TW ball in either late 2000 or early 2001. So he went 4 full years without any Nike clubs at all. I think the first "Nike" clubs he used were the irons which were actually rebadged Miuras custom ground especially for him. Then he went to the Nike driver shortly after, but he flip-flopped back and forth between that and his old Titleist. So as of around 2003 or 2004 he had Nike driver, irons and ball and Titleist 3-wood, wedges and putter. I don't recall whether he swapped out the 3-wood or the Vokey wedges next, but he did both eventually and now has all Nike gear except for his putter. That's still a Titleist Scotty.

His game starting to slip had nothing to do with the clubs. He underwent massive swing changes and lost #1 in the world to David Duval, but that was well before moving to Nike gear. When Duval passed Tiger Tiger was still exclusively Titleist clubs and balls. He overtook Duval after the swing changes took hold and lost it again briefly to Vijay before taking it back.

thanks for the clarification

 

[Miramonti]

Thanks for the tip. :thumbsup:

Next time I'm scavenging for balls I'll try to focus on them exclusively, and with a little success I should be able to quit collecting aluminum cans altogether.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: jjsole
Thanks for the tip. :thumbsup:

Next time I'm scavenging for balls I'll try to focus on them exclusively, and with a little success I should be able to quit collecting aluminum cans altogether.

Rarely does one come across a good ball just sitting there like an easter egg. Sometimes yes, but for the most part no.

Although if you look at the water hazard in #8 at my local course, directly in front of the green you will find a proV1. And a few others of mine.

Damn up hill, 190 yard shots. Grrrr.

 

[tfinch2]

So what's your handicap spidey?

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
I'm not good enough for the ball to make any difference in my game. 🙁

You don't have to be very good before you can really tell the difference between a distance ball and a spin ball, but I certainly can't claim that a good ball saves me more than a stroke a game over a lesser one.

In all honesty, a ball that feels good to putt is probably more important.

I finally found a driver that works for me. Got to play with it this afternoon... 😀

But in my bag there is a mish-mash of balls. And, sad to say, it doesn't seem to matter which one I pick... Brand new Titleist or some dirty foundling... But now that I can play consistantly I have noticed that my game is sharpening up. Where I would normally shoot 100-110 I'm now in the low 90's. (Except for Makena - For some reason that course takes me out back, beats me up and steals all my balls)

My goal is to be able to shoot in the 80's on a regular basis by the end of the year. (And keep the ball loss to under 6)

 

[BigToque]

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt

Originally posted by: KnickNut3
For 99% of golfers, the ball they use makes no difference. Sure, when you play a spin ball you should take the longer club when you're in between clubs, but no appreciable performance difference.

That's another myth. Having a ball that fits your game is just as important as having clubs that fit your game and shoes that fit your feet. Due to USGA rules balls pretty much have the same performance potential. Nobody can manufacture a ball that outperforms other balls. It's how they arrive at that performance that's the key. Some balls fly high and spin a lot and others fly low and spin less. Players who hit the ball low on their own would be better fit by having a ball with a higher trajectory and a higher spin rate. Guys who hit it too high or with too much spin need a ball with less spin and a lower initial launch angle. That's why Titleist came out with the ProV1x in addition to the ProV1. The regular ProV1 doesn't fit everyone. It's the same reason that Bridgestone has the B330 and the B330s, why Callaway has the Hx Tour and HX Tour 56, why Nike has the One Black and One Platinum, why Taylormade has the TP Red and the TP Black, why Srixon has the Z-UR and the Z-URS and why every ball company on earth has models that play slightly differently at every price point. The pros spend hours and hours and hours testing balls to get the exact right blend of initial speed, launch angle, full swing spin rate, half-swing spin rate, sound, feel and trajectory. With a million dollars as first place for most tournaments and successful pros making 5-25 million a year (Tiger, Phil, Ernie and guys like that earn significantly more) nobody would be intentionally screwing up their careers just to play a certain ball. They play what works and what fits. The fact that so many guys are playing so many different brands and models proves to anyone with a brain (that leaves JEDIYoda out) that there is no best ball. If there was everyone would be playing it.

I agree with you and I agree with KnickNut as well. Obviously you should play with equipment that is best suited to your playing style. But, most golfers do not have consistent games. Sometimes shoot high, sometimes shoot low, someimes put on a lot of spin, etc.

For most golfers, going to a professional for some lessons and playing with the 50 cent used balls would be a much greater investment than buying the expensive balls because you think they'll make your already crummy game good. No ball is going to make up for a poor swing.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Originally posted by: BigToque

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt

Originally posted by: KnickNut3
For 99% of golfers, the ball they use makes no difference. Sure, when you play a spin ball you should take the longer club when you're in between clubs, but no appreciable performance difference.

That's another myth. Having a ball that fits your game is just as important as having clubs that fit your game and shoes that fit your feet. Due to USGA rules balls pretty much have the same performance potential. Nobody can manufacture a ball that outperforms other balls. It's how they arrive at that performance that's the key. Some balls fly high and spin a lot and others fly low and spin less. Players who hit the ball low on their own would be better fit by having a ball with a higher trajectory and a higher spin rate. Guys who hit it too high or with too much spin need a ball with less spin and a lower initial launch angle. That's why Titleist came out with the ProV1x in addition to the ProV1. The regular ProV1 doesn't fit everyone. It's the same reason that Bridgestone has the B330 and the B330s, why Callaway has the Hx Tour and HX Tour 56, why Nike has the One Black and One Platinum, why Taylormade has the TP Red and the TP Black, why Srixon has the Z-UR and the Z-URS and why every ball company on earth has models that play slightly differently at every price point. The pros spend hours and hours and hours testing balls to get the exact right blend of initial speed, launch angle, full swing spin rate, half-swing spin rate, sound, feel and trajectory. With a million dollars as first place for most tournaments and successful pros making 5-25 million a year (Tiger, Phil, Ernie and guys like that earn significantly more) nobody would be intentionally screwing up their careers just to play a certain ball. They play what works and what fits. The fact that so many guys are playing so many different brands and models proves to anyone with a brain (that leaves JEDIYoda out) that there is no best ball. If there was everyone would be playing it.

I agree with you and I agree with KnickNut as well. Obviously you should play with equipment that is best suited to your playing style. But, most golfers do not have consistent games. Sometimes shoot high, sometimes shoot low, someimes put on a lot of spin, etc.

For most golfers, going to a professional for some lessons and playing with the 50 cent used balls would be a much greater investment than buying the expensive balls because you think they'll make your already crummy game good. No ball is going to make up for a poor swing.

Absolutely 100% correct. Without a doubt, there's no way to fit an inconsistent swing and for golfers in that category a hacked up Top-Flite from 1985 is going to perform as well as as a new Pro V1. Building a somewhat repeating swing is step one, then and only then can clubs and balls be fit to it.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: jjsole
Thanks for the tip. :thumbsup:

Next time I'm scavenging for balls I'll try to focus on them exclusively, and with a little success I should be able to quit collecting aluminum cans altogether.

Rarely does one come across a good ball just sitting there like an easter egg. Sometimes yes, but for the most part no.

Although if you look at the water hazard in #8 at my local course, directly in front of the green you will find a proV1. And a few others of mine.

Damn up hill, 190 yard shots. Grrrr.

I scavenged an entire pack of pro v1s one very slow day. (And almost nothing else - other people were spending some time doing the same thing)

It made me wonder if thre was one very bad golfer about two groups in front of me with too much money.

It also made me wonder how many balls he actually lost!

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: jjsole
Thanks for the tip. :thumbsup:

Next time I'm scavenging for balls I'll try to focus on them exclusively, and with a little success I should be able to quit collecting aluminum cans altogether.

Rarely does one come across a good ball just sitting there like an easter egg. Sometimes yes, but for the most part no.

Although if you look at the water hazard in #8 at my local course, directly in front of the green you will find a proV1. And a few others of mine.

Damn up hill, 190 yard shots. Grrrr.

I scavenged an entire pack of pro v1s one very slow day. (And almost nothing else - other people were spending some time doing the same thing)

It made me wonder if thre was one very bad golfer about two groups in front of me with too much money.

It also made me wonder how many balls he actually lost!

If you had followed me around today you could have found yourself a brand new package of Maxfli's...

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
I'm not good enough for the ball to make any difference in my game. 🙁

You don't have to be very good before you can really tell the difference between a distance ball and a spin ball, but I certainly can't claim that a good ball saves me more than a stroke a game over a lesser one.

In all honesty, a ball that feels good to putt is probably more important.

I finally found a driver that works for me. Got to play with it this afternoon... 😀

But in my bag there is a mish-mash of balls. And, sad to say, it doesn't seem to matter which one I pick... Brand new Titleist or some dirty foundling... But now that I can play consistantly I have noticed that my game is sharpening up. Where I would normally shoot 100-110 I'm now in the low 90's. (Except for Makena - For some reason that course takes me out back, beats me up and steals all my balls)

My goal is to be able to shoot in the 80's on a regular basis by the end of the year. (And keep the ball loss to under 6)

I'm now using a TiBubble2 that I found in the used bin for $30 last summer. Ten years ago when I worked at a driving range that clubs was the big new thing!

It's not quite as forgiving as the new top-of-the-line stuff, and it gives up about 5-7 yards, but that's mostly not my problem. I can work the ball pretty well with it, etc.

I must have the world's worst short game though, cause I GIR about half the time, lose a ball about every second round, and still have a handicap well into the teens🙁

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
I'm not good enough for the ball to make any difference in my game. 🙁

You don't have to be very good before you can really tell the difference between a distance ball and a spin ball, but I certainly can't claim that a good ball saves me more than a stroke a game over a lesser one.

In all honesty, a ball that feels good to putt is probably more important.

I finally found a driver that works for me. Got to play with it this afternoon... 😀

But in my bag there is a mish-mash of balls. And, sad to say, it doesn't seem to matter which one I pick... Brand new Titleist or some dirty foundling... But now that I can play consistantly I have noticed that my game is sharpening up. Where I would normally shoot 100-110 I'm now in the low 90's. (Except for Makena - For some reason that course takes me out back, beats me up and steals all my balls)

My goal is to be able to shoot in the 80's on a regular basis by the end of the year. (And keep the ball loss to under 6)

I'm now using a TiBubble2 that I found in the used bin for $30 last summer. Ten years ago when I worked at a driving range that clubs was the big new thing!

It's not quite as forgiving as the new top-of-the-line stuff, and it gives up about 5-7 yards, but that's mostly not my problem. I can work the ball pretty well with it, etc.

I must have the world's worst short game though, cause I GIR about half the time, lose a ball about every second round, and still have a handicap well into the teens🙁

HA! No way! That's the driver I had before I got this one yesterday. I couldn't hit it to save my life. I was always using my TiBubble 3 wood to tee off.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
HA! No way! That's the driver I had before I got this one yesterday. I couldn't hit it to save my life. I was always using my TiBubble 3 wood to tee off.

In the grand scheme of things, it is an unforgiving bitch of a club, but as I said, contact is not really my issue, and I actually hit more fairways than I miss with it. I tried out an R7 on a stiff shaft last summer, and it was fantastic. I mean really amazing - the first and only time I hit a true 300 yarder. But I was definitely having to put a lot in to get the shaft to kick properly, so I if I bought one it would be a regular shaft.

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
HA! No way! That's the driver I had before I got this one yesterday. I couldn't hit it to save my life. I was always using my TiBubble 3 wood to tee off.

In the grand scheme of things, it is an unforgiving bitch of a club, but as I said, contact is not really my issue, and I actually hit more fairways than I miss with it. I tried out an R7 on a stiff shaft last summer, and it was fantastic. I mean really amazing - the first and only time I hit a true 300 yarder. But I was definitely having to put a lot in to get the shaft to kick properly, so I if I bought one it would be a regular shaft.

That it was...

That's what I got... regular shaft. I can't hit anywhere near 300 but I managed a solid 250 today.

And for the record... I LOVE my TiBubble 3 and 5. I can do no wrong with those clubs. It was just that damn driver that kicked my butt. The R7 Draw is a VERY forgiving club (and I need a lot of forgiveness). I'm still trying to figure it out but it's being very nice to me while I learn.

It sounds like you know what you're doing better than I. I'd reccommend one of the other r7s... the ones they build for people who know how to play golf. 😛 My r7 is the short bus version.