Golf - How do I draw the ball?

[GobBluth]

What's the secret? An inside-out swing path generates draw spin but when I try to apply this I wind up pushing the ball right.

Secondly,

Anyone have any good drills for compressing the ball with your irons and taking a divot ahead of the ball like you are supposed to?

GB

 

[Drako]

How do you address the ball?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNauilZRzHk

 

[cardiac]

If you can close the club face a little, it might help with your push...

As far as your irons go, sometimes it comes down to how far forward or back you are playing the ball in your stance. Not a magician with my irons, either

 

[fustercluck]

Here ya go

hehe.

Golf is fuggin hard. Good luck with that.

 

[Fern]

What's the secret? An inside-out swing path generates draw spin but when I try to apply this I wind up pushing the ball right.

Simply put - Your club face must be "closed" when striking the ball. Closed means the face is (slightly) pointing to the left (for right handed players).

There are many ways to achieve this, and many ways to fail to achieve it.

Edit: The few inches your clubhead travels while in contact with the ball is important. E.g., even if your clubface is perfectly square to the target, if you cut across the ball - meaning from outside to inside path, you will put a slice spin on the ball. Also, if you do that with the clubface closed you'll up with a trap pull shot. A closed clubface and a inside/out swing path works out fine. The ball starts to the right but curves back to the left.)

Secondly,

Anyone have any good drills for compressing the ball with your irons and taking a divot ahead of the ball like you are supposed to?

GB

At the moment of impact your hands will be (slightly) in front/ahead of the ball. Many people try to 'help' the ball fly up high by 'scooping' it up (meaning hands are behind the ball). Instead you want to hit down on the ball; the resulting spin actually sends it much higher up in the air.

I.e., when hitting up/compressing the ball your hands lead the club face at impact.

Fern

 

[GobBluth]

How do you address the ball?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNauilZRzHk

I typically address the ball on the inside of my front foot with my feet parallel with the target line. This is off the tee. Off the grass I am slight forward of center.

 

[JulesMaximus]

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Simply put - Your club face must be "closed" when striking the ball. Closed means the face is (slightly) pointing to the left (for right handed players).

Simply put, you're an idiot. Your clubface does not have to be closed and trying to teach that as a method to draw the ball is something 30 handicap chops might suggest. ALWAYS try to get the clubface back to square, intentionally trying not to is asking for trouble.

Golf is a game of opposites, so what seems intuitive to fix a problem usually exacerbates it. The inside to out swingpath does produce a draw IF you do it right. If all you're doing is pushing the ball you're not really getting the idea of the proper swing path. It sounds like you're leaving your shoulders open and sliding into impact because that creates the feel of the inside-out swing you're trying to achieve. But it's not right.

Here are two drills to help you:

1) Make some 50% swing and make the first downward move an attempt to get your right elbow into the right hip pocket. That's impossible, but it creates the drop down move that will help the club get into the proper inside position.

2) Put another tee in the ground slightly in front of your tee ball and slightly to the right of the target line. Try to clip that with your swing, that will in-grain the inside to out movement.

Combine the two and you will create the path that allows you to draw the ball with a square face.


A good drill to create the downward angle of attack necessary to hit irons and even chips crisply is to place a headcover on the ground a few inches behind the ball. Come in too shallow and you clip the cover which provides instant feedback. And having the cover there forces your subconscious to adapt to it and you'll start getting the steeper angle down without even trying.

 

[sjwaste]

I typically address the ball on the inside of my front foot with my feet parallel with the target line. This is off the tee. Off the grass I am slight forward of center.

Address like that, then take your lead foot and close your stance maybe half a step (meaning take a step with that foot closer to the ball). For me, stance is the best way to control draw/fade.

Others do it by strengthening or weakening the grip. A strong grip draws more, and a strong grip is when your right hand (if you're right handed) is more open or "palm up" and your thumb line is basically behind the club.

The grip method doesn't work for me to draw because I hold the club with a completely strong grip (meaning I can't rotate my hand much further). I can fade by weakening it, but the resulting control isn't as good as if I use my feet.

Bottom line: Don't learn this as you go on the course. Hit the range, preferably one that has real golf balls. If they're marked "range" they will be lower compression and spin less. If so, remember that your results on the course will be exaggerated.

By the way, what kind of ball are you using? I'm not suggesting you switch, but you'll have to work harder for spin if you're using a two piece, lower compression, lower spin ball like a Magna, rather than say, a balata.

I can't wait to get back out there in the spring.

 

[sjwaste]

Oh, and closing the face to draw the ball isn't even something I'd suggest. That becomes a bad habit too easily, and you'll start hooding your irons and duck hooking or rolling the ball. Just don't do it that way. I suggest stance or grip, in that order, depending on your ability as a golfer.

There is no substitute for a good swing. If you don't have one, get one before you start trying to move the ball. Get good at "straight" first.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

By the way, what kind of ball are you using? I'm not suggesting you switch, but you'll have to work harder for spin if you're using a two piece, lower compression, lower spin ball like a Magna, rather than say, a balata.

Magna and balata? Holy crap, 1977 just called, they want their technology back.

 

[Fern]

Simply put, you're an idiot. Your clubface does not have to be closed and trying to teach that as a method to draw the ball is something 30 handicap chops might suggest. ALWAYS try to get the clubface back to square, intentionally trying not to is asking for trouble.

You're clueless.

If you don't close the clubface through impact you'll never get a draw. It is that simple.

The vast majority of people who hit fades or slices have the clubface in an open position while hitting through the ball.

In any case, the position of the clubface is relative to the swing path. If you have an inside-out path and the clubface is aimed at a target to the left of that line/path, technically your clubface is in a closed position. If he has an inside-out swing path and the ball is merely pushed, his clubface is obviously open (in relation to the target)

Fern

 

[Fern]

-snip-

Bottom line: Don't learn this as you go on the course. Hit the range, preferably one that has real golf balls. If they're marked "range" they will be lower compression and spin less. If so, remember that your results on the course will be exaggerated.

By the way, what kind of ball are you using? I'm not suggesting you switch, but you'll have to work harder for spin if you're using a two piece, lower compression, lower spin ball like a Magna, rather than say, a balata.

I can't wait to get back out there in the spring.

I've been told that balata balls are no longer made. I sure haven't been able to find any in golf stores. All I see are old supplies sold on Ebay etc.

Fern

 

[sjwaste]

I've been told that balata balls are no longer made. I sure haven't been able to find any in golf stores. All I see are old supplies sold on Ebay etc.

Fern

They're not. You can get better spin characteristics out of a two piece these days. Still the example I use because I can't think of anything that spun like that, albeit unpredictably.

 

[sjwaste]

Magna and balata? Holy crap, 1977 just called, they want their technology back.

No shit, but they're opposite ends of the spectrum and you clearly understood what I was talking about, so the point was apparently made. I can't think of anything else to illustrate a ball that spun just enough to go straight vs one that spun out of control.

 

[Kyle]

Interesting article in the latest golf digest

http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-instruction/2012-12/sean-foley-law-of-the-draw

Among other things, it states club face is open to target line at impact. It's a feel thing- I can hit a draw but no way in hell could I ever instruct someone else how to do it. I definitely have the "swing to the right" feeling.

 

[GobBluth]

@SJ I'm using Pro V1s for the most part. If I am on a hole where I'm in danger of losing one (they're $5/ball) I switch to Pennicle Gold's. I guess I have a relatively weak grip then because my thumb lays right down the center of the grip.

@Gag Thanks for the drills, I'm going to try that. I really want to start shaping a lot more shots (planning on moving to MB irons soon).

 

[sjwaste]

@SJ I'm using Pro V1s for the most part. If I am on a hole where I'm in danger of losing one (they're $5/ball) I switch to Pennicle Gold's. I guess I have a relatively weak grip then because my thumb lays right down the center of the grip.

@Gag Thanks for the drills, I'm going to try that. I really want to start shaping a lot more shots (planning on moving to MB irons soon).

That's a neutral grip, if I had to guess without seeing it. You can try strengthening it, might have better results than closing your stance. It's all going to require practice and repetition, though.

If you're worried about losing a $5 ball for a particular shot, stop using $5 golf balls entirely. You'll know when you've moved into the type of game where the type of ball you play matters. I consider myself a fairly decent golfer and there's not a chance in hell I'm spending $60 a dozen. I do play the ProV1, but it's mostly because I find 'em all over the course that my work league plays at

If I'm buying, I like the Nike Mojo ($20 for 2 dozen) a lot. The noodle is also a good ball, despite its ridiculous name. Pinnacle Gold are just fine too. I've never felt I was using the wrong ball for a particular type of shot. Until you're really good, your scoring comes from play around the green and putting, and no ball fixes a bad short game.

Just stick to a lower cost ball until you're there. You need confidence in every shot, and worrying about losing your ball shouldn't even be on your mind at approach. If it is, play with disposables and remove one more mental piece. Seriously, this could be one instance where playing with the lost bin in my garage would lower your score.

 

[GobBluth]

That's a neutral grip, if I had to guess without seeing it. You can try strengthening it, might have better results than closing your stance. It's all going to require practice and repetition, though.

If you're worried about losing a $5 ball for a particular shot, stop using $5 golf balls entirely. You'll know when you've moved into the type of game where the type of ball you play matters. I consider myself a fairly decent golfer and there's not a chance in hell I'm spending $60 a dozen. I do play the ProV1, but it's mostly because I find 'em all over the course that my work league plays at

If I'm buying, I like the Nike Mojo ($20 for 2 dozen) a lot. The noodle is also a good ball, despite its ridiculous name. Pinnacle Gold are just fine too. I've never felt I was using the wrong ball for a particular type of shot. Until you're really good, your scoring comes from play around the green and putting, and no ball fixes a bad short game.

Just stick to a lower cost ball until you're there. You need confidence in every shot, and worrying about losing your ball shouldn't even be on your mind at approach. If it is, play with disposables and remove one more mental piece. Seriously, this could be one instance where playing with the lost bin in my garage would lower your score.

Noted, I'll take that into consideration. Thanks for the advice. I'll hit the range and try a stronger grip.

I'm pretty happy with my game to this point. Just want to be able to draw the ball around some doglegs and move the ball right and left. Thanks again for all your input.

 

[zanemoseley]

Try to fade the ball.... then you will draw it lol. Golf is frickin hard, I'm 2 full seasons in and wish I could just hit it straight 80% or more of the time.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Noted, I'll take that into consideration. Thanks for the advice. I'll hit the range and try a stronger grip.

I'm pretty happy with my game to this point. Just want to be able to draw the ball around some doglegs and move the ball right and left. Thanks again for all your input.

Expensive balls do nothing for we average-to-worse-than-average duffers.

Unless you are consistently shaping shots, you simply do not need (or want!) a ball with high spin, and low-spin balls are cheap.

As neat as it is to hit a short-mid iron onto the green with some 'action' the reality is if you're shooting in the 80s and 90s you're only hitting a shot like this in regulation about 3-4 times a round, and half those times you're on the wrong half of the green anyway.

As a teenager I had a swing consistent enough to reliably shape shots. Now I play 8-10 times a year and never practice. There's no point playing with balls that are intended for skilled players. I'm not one.

 

[actuarial]

Address like that, then take your lead foot and close your stance maybe half a step (meaning take a step with that foot closer to the ball). For me, stance is the best way to control draw/fade.

I use my stance to promote a draw, but I line up like normal then move my back foot back, as opposed to my front foot forward. It's usually such that my toe is at about the halfway point of my front foot.

The effect is similar, but I find it easier to hit that ball as opposed to getting closer to it.

If I try to move my stance for a fade I always pull the ball so I don't do it. Instead I try to swing too hard as that gives the fade I used to have before I fixed my swing.

I only shape the ball with my driver off the tee, and only if the whole more or less requires it. No success shaping irons.

 

[sjwaste]

Noted, I'll take that into consideration. Thanks for the advice. I'll hit the range and try a stronger grip.

I'm pretty happy with my game to this point. Just want to be able to draw the ball around some doglegs and move the ball right and left. Thanks again for all your input.

Keep in mind, and I learned this the hard way, that you're very often FAR better off playing the ball to the correct side of the fairway on a straight shot than you are trying to shape it. It's fun, and I'm not saying it's a part of your game you shouldn't try to develop, but at some point you're going to go nuts trying to follow the midline of every fairway on every hole. These days, if there's a sharp leg, I'll often tee off with an iron or 3W and just try to keep it on the far side of the bend. For me, that usually puts me in the range of a good approach club, rather than getting in between wedges.

Course management was, is, and always will be the biggest factor working against my score.

I use my stance to promote a draw, but I line up like normal then move my back foot back, as opposed to my front foot forward. It's usually such that my toe is at about the halfway point of my front foot.

The effect is similar, but I find it easier to hit that ball as opposed to getting closer to it.

If I try to move my stance for a fade I always pull the ball so I don't do it. Instead I try to swing too hard as that gives the fade I used to have before I fixed my swing.

I only shape the ball with my driver off the tee, and only if the whole more or less requires it. No success shaping irons.

Yeah that works too. As long as you're comfortable and practice it enough to repeat it, it can be useful. I don't try to move my driver though. If I need it off the tee, I've learned that I'm better off trying with a long iron. Beyond that, I just work the natural draw off of the grass. The way I see it, there's not enough room between me and the hole to do much shaping with a 7i. At most, I might try to hit a neutral shot or fade a couple yards, but only if absolutely necessary.

 

[lupi]

It took to post 7 before the proper response, I am disappoint.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

You're clueless.

If you don't close the clubface through impact you'll never get a draw. It is that simple.

The vast majority of people who hit fades or slices have the clubface in an open position while hitting through the ball.

In any case, the position of the clubface is relative to the swing path. If you have an inside-out path and the clubface is aimed at a target to the left of that line/path, technically your clubface is in a closed position. If he has an inside-out swing path and the ball is merely pushed, his clubface is obviously open (in relation to the target)

Fern

Fat drunk and stupid is no way to go through life son. Simple physics will tell you that it is possible to draw the ball even with an open face if the swing path is inside to outside to a sufficient degree. That is of course unless you yourself are too simple to understand the physics. You're just taking the bassackward hacker approach to something a decent golfer can accomplish easily. A closed face imparts counter-clockwise spin to the ball (for a rightie) and will cause it to move right to left. A dead square face moving cross the target line will produce exactly the same spin. You're suggesting creating a 2nd problem to counteract an existing problem, I'm suggesting eliminating the first problem. Which one will work better in the long run?

And you're also wrong about why most people slice, FAR more will slice due to an improper outside to inside swing path which causes the club to cut across the ball. I can teach ANY golfer to hit a draw without touching their clubface, their grip or their stance. Once you eliminate that over-the-top casting move the slice vanishes because the swing path gets into the proper position.

Please, please, please grow a single brain cell. That won't be enough to help you understand golf, but it hopefully might keep you from blathering on about things you clearly don't understand. That will be helpful in two ways, it will prevent aspiring golfers from getting bad advice that will make them worse and it will help you look less foolish.