Goldman Sachs posts $1.8 billion profit

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: GoPackGo

Originally posted by: senseamp
Looks like now that the losses have been socialized, it's time to privatize the gains again.

what part of repaying the government didn't you get?

Are they going to repay the government for their counter party risk which was assumed by the taxpayer through AIG bailout?

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Something smells fishy here. How is GS making awesome profits if things were so dire? Couldn't be because money was thrown at them, was it? Or maybe they weren't so dire?

New M2M guidelines in effect?

Congress pressuring the FASB to relax its standards. Geez, I can't imagine anything going wrong here:roll:

If I was an investor, I certainly wouldn't trust their numbers.

Our government has learned nothing from this financial crisis.

What numbers do you trust? The numbers required to sell to a hedge fund that uses a discount rate of 30% on any cashflows and knows, since this is a dire situation and banks need liquidity, that that discount rate is now 50%?

Wow, what a great way of running your economy, price everything to hedge fund levels!

BTW, if you own a car, I require you to mark it to market, right now, and put up extra collateral if you aren't at an 80% LTV.

I would trust my own numbers after I run an audit of the company (provided they let me see their books).

BTW, letting the banks not M2M is a great incentive for them to keep the bad loans on their balance sheets, prolonging the crisis and undermining Geithner's plan. I can't see this helping to expedite the resolution of the crisis.

Because you know so much about modeling securitization positions. Are you up on the latest rating agency methodology? How do you calculate CPR and CDR?

Ohhh, wait, this is much more difficult and relying on an illiquid market and distressed sales prices is stupid.

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: GoPackGo

Originally posted by: senseamp
Looks like now that the losses have been socialized, it's time to privatize the gains again.

what part of repaying the government didn't you get?

Is AIG going to be able to pay it all back?

 

[Modelworks]

Bonuses for everyone !
Wait, I mean, "Bonuses for the CEO!"

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Something smells fishy here. How is GS making awesome profits if things were so dire? Couldn't be because money was thrown at them, was it? Or maybe they weren't so dire?

New M2M guidelines in effect?

Congress pressuring the FASB to relax its standards. Geez, I can't imagine anything going wrong here:roll:

If I was an investor, I certainly wouldn't trust their numbers.

Our government has learned nothing from this financial crisis.

What numbers do you trust? The numbers required to sell to a hedge fund that uses a discount rate of 30% on any cashflows and knows, since this is a dire situation and banks need liquidity, that that discount rate is now 50%?

Wow, what a great way of running your economy, price everything to hedge fund levels!

BTW, if you own a car, I require you to mark it to market, right now, and put up extra collateral if you aren't at an 80% LTV.

I would trust my own numbers after I run an audit of the company (provided they let me see their books).

BTW, letting the banks not M2M is a great incentive for them to keep the bad loans on their balance sheets, prolonging the crisis and undermining Geithner's plan. I can't see this helping to expedite the resolution of the crisis.

Because you know so much about modeling securitization positions. Are you up on the latest rating agency methodology? How do you calculate CPR and CDR?

Ohhh, wait, this is much more difficult and relying on an illiquid market and distressed sales prices is stupid.

So you just that they ride out the storm with their assets?

 

[sunzt]

*cough* bullsit *cough*

Easy to make 1.8 billion when you forget about December. They got rid of their Dec numbers !! That whole month disappeared when they switched from brokerage firm to bank holding

http://norris.blogs.nytimes.co...-of-the-missing-month/

How to Puff Up Earnings, Goldman Sachs Style
Email this post Print this post
By Barry Ritholtz - April 14th, 2009, 8:07AM

Leave it to the clever boys at Goldman Sachs to turn dross into gold: They have come up with a way to hide massive losses so clever, it requires special comment: The Orphan Month.

Yesterday, we noted that the bulk of their profits had come from AIG transfer payments ? the theft from taxpayers AIG 100% payouts funded via bailout monies that saw Goldie as one of the largest recipients. Floyd Norris notes that most of the AIG effect was in December. ?For the first quarter, the total A.I.G. effect on earnings was, in round numbers, zero.?

How is it possible that this occurred? Isn?t GS on a December to February calendar? Well, there is a small asterisk about that. It seems that GS is moving from a December to a quarterly calendar. Meaning their latest Q is January thru March.

But what of December, with all t he AIG monies and the comparison to the strong December 2007 and all?

In a word, Orphaned:

Goldman?s 2008 fiscal year ended Nov. 30. This year the company is switching to a calendar year. The leaves December as an orphan month, one that will be largely ignored. In Goldman?s news release, and in most of the news reports, the quarter ended March 31 is compared to the quarter last year that ending in February.

The orphan month featured ? surprise ? lots of writeoffs. The pre-tax loss was $1.3 billion, and the after-tax loss was $780 million.

Would the firm have had a profit if it stuck to its old calendar, and had to include December and exclude March?

Truly astounding . . . the word Chutzpah simply does not do it justice . . .

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Something smells fishy here. How is GS making awesome profits if things were so dire? Couldn't be because money was thrown at them, was it? Or maybe they weren't so dire?

New M2M guidelines in effect?

Congress pressuring the FASB to relax its standards. Geez, I can't imagine anything going wrong here:roll:

If I was an investor, I certainly wouldn't trust their numbers.

Our government has learned nothing from this financial crisis.

What numbers do you trust? The numbers required to sell to a hedge fund that uses a discount rate of 30% on any cashflows and knows, since this is a dire situation and banks need liquidity, that that discount rate is now 50%?

Wow, what a great way of running your economy, price everything to hedge fund levels!

BTW, if you own a car, I require you to mark it to market, right now, and put up extra collateral if you aren't at an 80% LTV.

I would trust my own numbers after I run an audit of the company (provided they let me see their books).

BTW, letting the banks not M2M is a great incentive for them to keep the bad loans on their balance sheets, prolonging the crisis and undermining Geithner's plan. I can't see this helping to expedite the resolution of the crisis.

Because you know so much about modeling securitization positions. Are you up on the latest rating agency methodology? How do you calculate CPR and CDR?

Ohhh, wait, this is much more difficult and relying on an illiquid market and distressed sales prices is stupid.

So you just that they ride out the storm with their assets?

Is the "storm" one in which the only "value" to an asset is a distressed sale?

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Something smells fishy here. How is GS making awesome profits if things were so dire? Couldn't be because money was thrown at them, was it? Or maybe they weren't so dire?

New M2M guidelines in effect?

Congress pressuring the FASB to relax its standards. Geez, I can't imagine anything going wrong here:roll:

If I was an investor, I certainly wouldn't trust their numbers.

Our government has learned nothing from this financial crisis.

What numbers do you trust? The numbers required to sell to a hedge fund that uses a discount rate of 30% on any cashflows and knows, since this is a dire situation and banks need liquidity, that that discount rate is now 50%?

Wow, what a great way of running your economy, price everything to hedge fund levels!

BTW, if you own a car, I require you to mark it to market, right now, and put up extra collateral if you aren't at an 80% LTV.

I would trust my own numbers after I run an audit of the company (provided they let me see their books).

BTW, letting the banks not M2M is a great incentive for them to keep the bad loans on their balance sheets, prolonging the crisis and undermining Geithner's plan. I can't see this helping to expedite the resolution of the crisis.

Because you know so much about modeling securitization positions. Are you up on the latest rating agency methodology? How do you calculate CPR and CDR?

Ohhh, wait, this is much more difficult and relying on an illiquid market and distressed sales prices is stupid.

So you just that they ride out the storm with their assets?

Is the "storm" one in which the only "value" to an asset is a distressed sale?

What's so difficult about answering a fucking question? Do you prefer that the banks continue to value their assets according to their models?

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: sunzt
*cough* bullsit *cough*

Easy to make 1.8 billion when you forget about December. They got rid of their Dec numbers !! That whole month disappeared when they switched from brokerage firm to bank holding

http://norris.blogs.nytimes.co...-of-the-missing-month/

How to Puff Up Earnings, Goldman Sachs Style
Email this post Print this post
By Barry Ritholtz - April 14th, 2009, 8:07AM

Leave it to the clever boys at Goldman Sachs to turn dross into gold: They have come up with a way to hide massive losses so clever, it requires special comment: The Orphan Month.

Yesterday, we noted that the bulk of their profits had come from AIG transfer payments ? the theft from taxpayers AIG 100% payouts funded via bailout monies that saw Goldie as one of the largest recipients. Floyd Norris notes that most of the AIG effect was in December. ?For the first quarter, the total A.I.G. effect on earnings was, in round numbers, zero.?

How is it possible that this occurred? Isn?t GS on a December to February calendar? Well, there is a small asterisk about that. It seems that GS is moving from a December to a quarterly calendar. Meaning their latest Q is January thru March.

But what of December, with all t he AIG monies and the comparison to the strong December 2007 and all?

In a word, Orphaned:

Goldman?s 2008 fiscal year ended Nov. 30. This year the company is switching to a calendar year. The leaves December as an orphan month, one that will be largely ignored. In Goldman?s news release, and in most of the news reports, the quarter ended March 31 is compared to the quarter last year that ending in February.

The orphan month featured ? surprise ? lots of writeoffs. The pre-tax loss was $1.3 billion, and the after-tax loss was $780 million.

Would the firm have had a profit if it stuck to its old calendar, and had to include December and exclude March?

Truly astounding . . . the word Chutzpah simply does not do it justice . . .

Fuzzy math, heh? This is probably in collusion with the politicians in Washington. Yep, not much has changed.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: Dari


What's so difficult about answering a fucking question? Do you prefer that the banks continue to value their assets according to their models?

What's so difficult about answering a fucking question? Do you prefer that all assets continue to be valued according to distressed sales where the discount rates are at 50% and the only buyers are people who will only buy at a fraction of the real, long-term, realizable cashflows, and they only offer that price because they know you're fucked and *HAVE* to sell, resulting in lower prices for all assets.

Here's a better idea. How about I buy a car JUST like yours, which normally costs $100,000 (what I buy it at and what you bought it at), then, because I just want to sell it for $10, I do it and tell your lender about it. Your lender then calls up and says that you *MUST* pay off your entire loan *NOW*, except $8 (80% LTV) or they are putting you into bankruptcy.

How fucking stupid is that? All because *I* sold something at a massively depressed value.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: Dari


What's so difficult about answering a fucking question? Do you prefer that the banks continue to value their assets according to their models?

What's so difficult about answering a fucking question? Do you prefer that all assets continue to be valued according to distressed sales where the discount rates are at 50% and the only buyers are people who will only buy at a fraction of the real, long-term, realizable cashflows, and they only offer that price because they know you're fucked and *HAVE* to sell, resulting in lower prices for all assets.

Here's a better idea. How about I buy a car JUST like yours, which normally costs $100,000 (what I buy it at and what you bought it at), then, because I just want to sell it for $10, I do it and tell your lender about it. Your lender then calls up and says that you *MUST* pay off your entire loan *NOW*, except $8 (80% LTV) or they are putting you into bankruptcy.

How fucking stupid is that? All because *I* sold something at a massively depressed value.

So, you want things to stay the same with the hope that conditions change. If you were a bank I'd say you will be waiting a while because investors are also waiting. I guess you can always go back to Uncle Sam if you need another bailout.

Don't get me wrong, I understand the plight of the banks but I hope that Geithner puts the squeeze on these banks regarding their assets. I don't care how much it hurts the economy, these banks and the government need to fully realize the trouble they've gotten the American economy in.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: Dari

So you just that they ride out the storm with their assets?

Depends on which side you are on. Some of us want to see financial institutions to ride out the storm fine and continue to provide the services they have been providing that made this country number 1 economy in the world. The rest seem to want to cheer the house on fire and love to pour gasoline into the fire by asking financial institutions to value their asset with rigid rules and unreasonable market valuation when market is totally messed up, result in huge losses and make their Day2Day operations much more expensive in this already bad economy.

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: Dari

So you just that they ride out the storm with their assets?

Depends on which side you are on. Some of us want to see financial institutions to ride out the storm fine and continue to provide the services they have been providing that made this country number 1 economy in the world. The rest seem to want to cheer the house on fire and love to pour gasoline into the fire by asking financial institutions to value their asset with rigid rules and unreasonable market valuation when market is totally messed up, result in huge losses and make their Day2Day operations much more expensive in this already bad economy.

I guess one's support for stimulus depends on how directly it affects them. I say let the house burn. Houses were never meant to be anything but a place to live and maybe...... just maybe a half decent long term investment.

 

[chess9]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Something smells fishy here. How is GS making awesome profits if things were so dire? Couldn't be because money was thrown at them, was it? Or maybe they weren't so dire?

New M2M guidelines in effect?

Congress pressuring the FASB to relax its standards. Geez, I can't imagine anything going wrong here:roll:

If I was an investor, I certainly wouldn't trust their numbers.

Our government has learned nothing from this financial crisis.

What numbers do you trust? The numbers required to sell to a hedge fund that uses a discount rate of 30% on any cashflows and knows, since this is a dire situation and banks need liquidity, that that discount rate is now 50%?

Wow, what a great way of running your economy, price everything to hedge fund levels!

BTW, if you own a car, I require you to mark it to market, right now, and put up extra collateral if you aren't at an 80% LTV.

LMFAO!

But, but, but, my car loan is hedged by a cds with AIG and a reverse mortgage tied to 30 day LIBOR! I'm home free, baby! Love this modern financing. Money for nothin', sex for free!!! w00t!

-Robert