Going to college and need to build a new computer...

[haut]

Right now I'm running an AMD K6/2-450 with 192 ram and a Guillemot MaxiGamer Phoenix. I want to build a totally new computer for college. I was thinking AMD 1.33 GHz with the A7M and 256 or 512 DDR. For the video, I was thinking either Radeon 64 DDR VIVO or GeForce2 Pro. I would like VIVO, but its not a complete necessity. For sound I'm either going with SB Live Platinum 5.1 or Midiman Audiophile 2496, not sure yet. I want to get one of the cool art cases from www.coolerstar.com because I don't want a plain white one and don't care for the iMac looking ones. I will also get a DVD-ROM and probably a new CD burner.
I want your guys' opinions on what I should do. I want to spend <$1500 total with monitor and printer. I really like the Asus MBs, but I'm open to suggestions. Also, I want this thing to be TOTALLY SMOOTH when I'm playing Black and White! Thanks.
--Ryan

 

[Hender]

Sounds pretty good so far, but I have a couple of suggestions:

-Turtle Beach Santa Cruz instead of the SoundBlaster Live--cheaper, better sound quality, no conflict issues.
-Geforce2 Pro, not Radeon. You'll get better performance in a larger number of games with the CPU you've chosen. Is VIVO really that important?
-I'm in love with the Pioneer slot-loading DVD drives when you come to that decision. They're cool, and I rake in the babes. OK, so not really, but everyone remarks how cool it looks.
-Asus MBs are expensive, and there are plenty MBs out there that are just as good and much cheaper, like the Epox 8K7A (one of the highest rated boards in this forum), or any new board based on the VIA KT266 chipset. I just bought a Shuttle AK31 for $90, and it's gotten great reviews.

 

[splice]

If you are going to be living in a cramped dorm room get a TV-tuner card so you can watch TV play video games and watch VHS tapes on the puter instead of having a seperate TV. As already stated, the Epox 8K7A board rocks and so does the Turtle Beach Santa Cruz. Don't forget a NIC if your dorm has ethernet.

 

[Hender]

Good catch, splice. That's an extra $15, yeah, and it should be added into the equation if you don't have one already. When I build a system (I know this sounds dumb, and I hope other people do this too), I use Excel and write down everything I'm going to get as well as the current price, and I update it so I don't forget where I saw the best price. Don't know if it's saved me any money, but it's helped me remember to get little things, like rounded cables, etc.

 

[MGMorden]

Hender: Don't worry, I do the Excel thing too. I even use the equations so that my total changes automatically when I change a price or delete an item.

 

[amoralist]

CASE: Enlight 7237 250 or 300 Watt PS $60 (has two fan mounts, 4 x 5.25 bays which are very rare features in mid tower cases) www.newegg.com or www.tcwo.com $6 ship + no tax
Video: Asus V7700 Deluxe with TV In and TV Out $180 from www.tcwo.com free ship with case..
Motherboard: ASUS A7V133 w/o sound $120 from www.newegg.com
CPU: AMD 1.2Ghz 266 OEM $100 from www.newegg.com (get $10 off for combo with MB)
CPU Heatsink: Thermaltake Volcan II $8 from www.newegg.com
RAM: Crucial PC33 CL2 SDRAM (forget DDR) 256MB $50 from www.crucial.com
Sound: Creative Live! SoundBlaseter $50 www.newegg.com or www.tcwo.com
Floppy: Whatever
Hard Drive: 7600 RPM, UDMA 100, Seagate, IBM, or Quantum 20-40GB, try OEM drive
DVD: Toshiba or Samsung 16x, $60 www.tcwo.com or whatever free ship with case
CDR: Not sure, something with burnproof 12x-16x, plextor's are good $150 try buy.com
Scanner: I have Visioneer 7600USB (old model) but I love it, $20 from www.officemax.com right now... otherwise probably Epson 1240U USB, try buy.com
Monitor: Try Dell P991 $300 www.dell.com, 17&quot;+, Flat screen, try buy.com
Printer: Epson or HP, what model? try buy.com What about laser?
OS: Win98 Se
NIC: try a 3com 3c905b from ebay.com, or get a netgear FA312, from wherever
Don't forget to make sure you have UDMA66+ cables (2), and a reuse your floppy cable..

I show it coming out to about $1400, remember not to skimp on the monitor, keyboard (Ergonomic and Wireless), or
mouse... (Optical and Wireless)

REMEMBER: Unless you have lots of cash, it doesn't make sense to buy state of the art equipment (GEForce2 PRO etc.). Get the most bang for you buck, save the extra bucks for your next upgrade or for more peripherals (ex. $100 digital camera), CDR Media, etc.

Jason

 

[haut]

I totally forgot the NIC! I have no experience with ethernet, but I have installed nics before. I liked the 3Com because I never had a conflict with them. What do you suggest? Also, I'll check into that Turtle Beach sound card. I'm looking up Epox right now and it looks good, I could save a good $60 or so over the A7M. Keep the suggestions coming! Thanks.
--Ryan

 

[Hender]

The Turtle Beach Santa Cruz costs $70 retail, way below any SB Live 5.1 model. As I said, better sound, too.

3com NICs are top of the line, yes, but it'll cost you an arm and a leg. NICs are basically all the same, anyways. A Netgear, Linksys, or D-Link 10/00 PCI card will run you about $20 retail, found online for cheaper. Just find someplace with a good price on one of those (usually in that order of preference, I've found, Netgear->Linksys->D-Link) someplace you're already ordering from to save on shipping costs, or run down to Best Buy or Fry's and pick one up.

The Epox 8K7A is a good board, as is the 8KHA, which is based on the VIA KT266 chipset. Advantage: 3 DIMM slots instead of 2, $20 cheaper, and it performs just as well. I can't testify to the quality of the Shuttle AK31 revision 2 I just bought, but I read a dozen or so reviews that praised it, and that only cost me $90, and it has 4 DIMM slots instead of 2 or 3. Other good DDR boards are a model from Gigabyte (don't know the model offhand), and I've also read good things about MSI's 760-based and KT266-based models, both DDR boards, but I don't know those model numbers, either.

What about speakers? I've read lots of reviews sayign the Boston Acoustics BA4800 are right behind the Klipsch 4.1's, and those are only $120 as opposed to the $299 for the Klipsch speakers. Don't know if you want a 4.1 system (kinda hard in college, I know), but those are highly-rated.

CD Burner, if you have the money, get a Plextor. They make the best burners, hands down. 'Nuff said.

 

[Hender]

<< RAM: Crucial PC33 CL2 SDRAM (forget DDR) 256MB $50 from www.crucial.com
........
REMEMBER: Unless you have lots of cash, it doesn't make sense to buy state of the art equipment (GEForce2 PRO etc.). Get the most bang for you buck, save the extra bucks for your next upgrade or for more peripherals (ex. $100 digital camera), CDR Media, etc.

Jason >>



What do you mean forget DDR? It's as cheap as PC133 and gives you a performance boost, in addition to being better for future applications due to the higher bandwidth! The Geforce2 Pro only runs $137 for the lowest price on Pricewatch, and that's certainly a lot cheaper than what you quoted, plus it's faster than what you quoted.

 

[agg123456789]

as far as nics go... i would get an intel one actually. it uses much less cpu than the 3coms, and mine has been great to me...



agg123456789

 

[Hender]

Yes, Intel NICs are good, too, but they tend to run as much as 3Com models. I saw a great roundup on some webpage that had full comparisons of thoroughput, CPU usage, etc, for about a dozen different NICs, but I don't remember what it was. 3Com and Intel came out on top, followed closely by the three I mentioned. In a low-traffic environment like he'll be in, though, CPU usage is a moot point, particularly with a 1.33 GHz Athlon. In a server environment, I'd recommend otherwise, but on the desktop it's OK to skimp in places like that.

 

[Kartajan]

Instead of buying a &quot;manufactured to be pretty&quot; case, I would get an good case that is just plain old white with a strong (350+ watts) power supply- and then mod the hell out of it yourself. Anyone with a good sense of creativity and a healthy amount of skill can blow any manufactured design out of the water......

Vid: GeForce 2 Pro (B&amp;W Must run smooth)
Ram: 512MB Corsair or Crucial PC 2100
HDD: IBM Deskstar 60GXP; 40GB
MB: I forget who can run the Palamino's....
CPU: 1.2G Palamino; HSF is up to you...
CD-RW: Plextor 12/10/32
DVD: Pioneer slot- loaders
Sound: Santa Cruz, or whatever isn't a SB Live- nothing but headaches from creative labs latest.....
FDD: Who cares at $15 a pop..
Scanner: One of those USB jobs that is powered from the USB connection- no more of those darn brick power supplies...
Printer: Take your pick.. I personally like HP...
NIC: Linksys..
Monitor: Something in a 17+&quot; that looks good to you- reviews don't mean crap unless you like it yourself....
OS: depends. Win98SE is an awesome gamer, but I like Win2k better. (And it can keep your roomies off when you aren't around..)
Speakers: Test drive if you can. If you like the $20 cheapies, why spend $300 on the Klipsh (sp?)...

Misc:
-Rounded cables are really nice to have, but the flat ones are free..
-KB: If you plan on running USB Game controllers/ Mice a USB Keyboard with extra ports is really good to have..
-Mice: USB has a fast polling rate but with more CPU usage than PS2
-Game Controllers: USB is nice, especially if you play 2 player stuff on your PC.
-UPS: There are some models that incorporate surge protection, and give you a couple of minutes to save that perfect game...

 

[amoralist]

I haven't read any reviews contending the DDR platforms are as STABLE as the most stable SDRAM platforms. Here at anandtech, the Asus, MSI, and Iwill motherboards ran for 48 hours without crashing. I don't think you'll find that in today's DDR platform.

Regarding the GEForce2 Pro comment, the lowest pricewatch is always something which should be tossed so you are not even arguing like an intelligent human being. Further, the Asus Deluxe comes with TV In, something very cool and likely not found on that card that you quoted. With TV In, one can burn their VHS tapes and cable programs/movies onto their computer no problem.

I'm less into excessively priced performance, and more into features and stability. Everyone knows that you'll pay premium for the state of the art... There is a sweet price point, and I think the GEForce2 cards and other components I mentioned are right there. This is important for a cash strapped student...

Jason

 

[Hender]

Good call. SURGE PROTECTOR. Not a sissy power strip, but an actual surge protector. I prefer APC models because they're high-end and pretty cheap. I just picked up three off Buy.com for under $50, including shipping, but they can be found in brick and mortar stores like Fry's for less. Add another $20 or so to the final cost.

 

[Hender]

<< I haven't read any reviews contending the DDR platforms are as STABLE as the most stable SDRAM platforms. Here at anandtech, the Asus, MSI, and Iwill motherboards ran for 48 hours without crashing. I don't think you'll find that in today's DDR platform.

Regarding the GEForce2 Pro comment, the lowest pricewatch is always something which should be tossed so you are not even arguing like an intelligent human being. Further, the Asus Deluxe comes with TV In, something very cool and likely not found on that card that you quoted. With TV In, one can burn their VHS tapes and cable programs/movies onto their computer no problem.

I'm less into excessively priced performance, and more into features and stability. Everyone knows that you'll pay premium for the state of the art... There is a sweet price point, and I think the GEForce2 cards and other components I mentioned are right there. This is important for a cash strapped student...

Jason >>



Actually, if you go and read some of those reviews you refer to, you'll find that everyone is recommending DDR systems if you buy a system today. There's just no sense in spending the same amount of money on something that doesn't perform as well. Every benchmark on the good tech sites that has anything to do with an AMD system uses DDR-SDRAM because it runs faster than regular SDRAM. I've heard of no compatibility or quality issues with DDR-SDRAM, but I *HAVE* heard of issues with the chipsets themselves ont he motherboards. The performance problems were all ironed out in the KT266 chipset, and since the initial bump it went through I've heard of no problems with the DDR platform.

Why do you say the lowest PriceWatch price should be tossed out? So all these places I've bought from at the PriceWatch price are what? Offering only me a good deal and no one else? The Geforce2 Pro runs faster than the GTS that the Asus sports, plus it's $40 cheaper. For a cash-strapped student, I would think he's more interested in saving money on a Geforce2 Pro than spending more for a video card that doesn't perform as well but has extra frills that he may or may not use.

 

[haut]

I'm not necessarily cash-strapped (yet) because I got a full out of state tuition waiver, have some money saved for tuition and etc, recieved $4500 in scholarships for my first year, and will be working during next year. I don't want a total econo-pc, but I want something that could stand up to the powerhouse computers reasonably. I don't want to do PC133 because DDR isn't too much more and is faster. I might spend over $1500 if the benefits would be worthwhile. Oh, and don't worry about the speakers, I build my own. Also, the Klipschs sounded a little harsh to me when I heard them (could have been a bad source, but I'm not sure). Thanks for all the suggestions. Where do I find the AMD Palomino?
--Ryan

 

[Ak]

Be aware of AMD and VIA KT133A. I have three of them; all have some kind of problems. I agree Asus is the best MOBO maker; I have Asus BX Mobo; no problem. A lot of Web gurus will defend AMD and VIA. I was impressed with the reviews; but have learnt in a hard way. Here are the summaries of my problems:

1. Aopen AK73 Pro. This board was running since Januray this year. Duron 750 was running 950 MHZ. The board died on me a week or so ago. Still under warranty and I am sending it back.

2. EpOx EP-8KTA3. Running stable, have problems with Netgear NIC.

3. EpOx EP-8KTA+ . Freezes every now and then. RMAed back to NewEgg.Com.

Thanks to NewEgg. The best merchant on the Web.

4. EpOx EP-8K7A. Running ME. Doesn't work with LPT attahced. Planning to return to EpOX. Received the RMA and EpOx admitted the problem.

Do you want a peace of mind? Don't pay any attention to Giga Hartz. Buy asus CUSL2-C for 107 from NewEgg.Com and go for Intel 1Gig for 173.00

 

[Hender]

The Palamino is only out in server chips, titled the Athlon MP, and it's available only in 1 GHZ and 1.2 GHz models. The desktop version will be out in a month, maybe two, but the Palamino does perform better than the Thunderbird in benchmarks due to some core improvements. You CAN use the Athlon MP on most current motherboards, but it's not identified properly in most cases. If you decide to go down that road, check with whatever MB manufacturer you choose to make sure it'll work on that board. The only guaranteed board the Athlon MP will work on the the Tyan dual Athlon board, and that's probably a *little* out of your price range.

You build your own speakers? Kudos.

 

[amoralist]

Well, I doubt that DDR board reviews have been put through 48 hour crash tests like anand does. I don't see any recent DDR board reviews on anand...

A good DDR board seems to cost like $40 more than a good SDR board. So DDR and SDR don't appear to be equally priced.

The first anything on pricewatch should be ignored because those are crap brands or those are crap vendors. Check your resellerratings and don't buy junk.

The $137 GEForce2 Pro card you are quoting was made by who? It says Generic. Don't quote crap. The first Asus Pro card is $230.

You can always go with the latest crap for the same price of the latest quality components...

Jason

As a student you should also consider RAID 1, for not losing papers or data between CDR backups...

 

[haut]

Here is a link to the Midiman page for the Audiophile 2496 sound card. I think I'm going to go with it becuase it can be had for $150 and is a great no-frills basic card. I don't need soundfields and stuff like that. I want to do some recording so the RCA inputs are very nice. I think the Enlight case is in the lead right now. I don't need some pretty case that costs $60 more. Plus, I remember how much I loved using the Enlights back at the computer store. Thanks to everyone who replied!
--Ryan

 

[Hender]

$150 for a &quot;basic, no-frills&quot; card? If that's true, I have a bridge I'd like to sell you...hehe. Sounds like it's pretty high-end card, but I don't think it does 3D sound like A3D or EAX. From the picture, I can't even tell what interface it is. It looks like PCI, but it's too short. I stick by my recommendation of the Santa Cruz, but in the end, it's up to you. I've heard but good things about it though, particularly from people who switched from SoundBlaster Live systems.

 

[Hender]

<< Well, I doubt that DDR board reviews have been put through 48 hour crash tests like anand does. I don't see any recent DDR board reviews on anand...

A good DDR board seems to cost like $40 more than a good SDR board. So DDR and SDR don't appear to be equally priced.

The first anything on pricewatch should be ignored because those are crap brands or those are crap vendors. Check your resellerratings and don't buy junk.

The $137 GEForce2 Pro card you are quoting was made by who? It says Generic. Don't quote crap. The first Asus Pro card is $230.

You can always go with the latest crap for the same price of the latest quality components...

Jason

As a student you should also consider RAID 1, for not losing papers or data between CDR backups... >>



OK, so the $137 generic Geforce2 Pro may not be the one for him, but what about the $138 Gainward model, or the $139 MSI model? Both are retail boards, and I've only heard good things about that particular MSI StarForce model. Both retail boxes, too. So a $139 card with faster performance is worse than a slower $230 card who's only benefit is a different name on the reference board? OK, then....

The reason why you don't see any reviews of DDR on the big tech sites anymore is because they've done them already. Anand did his DDR review last October and recommended it once DDR boards became more available, which they have since his October review. In all of Anand's Buyer's Guide articles done since then, DDR has gone in all the systems Anandtech recommends, like this Dream System, this SOHO System, and even this Gaming System. And that's just on Anandtech, and I typically trust the reviews that come out of there. I'm not particularly interested in seacrhing other sites, but I remember the conclusions everyone has come to.

Bottom line, buying PC133 SDRAM right now is a silly choice. The motherboards are older, the technology is older, and the performance is slower.

 

[mchammer187]

mb epox 8k7a (AMD 760) or MSI K7PRO i believe something (based on KT266)
crucial mem
TB santa Cruz
i would say RADEON LE(VIVO is nice but only if you are gonna use VI), KYRO II or the
MSI GF2 Pro (mine hits 240/480 and can get 85 FPS @ 4xFSAA on 1024x768)
if price or image quality is your main concern go LE
if framerate matters most get the Pro
Kyro II is a blend and in between in price also tho it can beat Pro's in some things

do not buy a pc133 chipset it will cost you a little more for the mb but you'll be able to keep you ram for later
A7M < Epox or MSI

another option is to wait for nforce but if you absolutely need something before you move out than now is a good time

i am waiting for nforce and buying all my other components first


&quot;4. EpOx EP-8K7A. Running ME. Doesn't work with LPT attahced. Planning to return to EpOX. Received the RMA and EpOx admitted the problem.&quot;

DO NOT TRUST THE OPINION OF WIN ME USERS! WIN ME is a joke
its win2k or linux

 

[Alex]

mobo: epox 87ka
its extremely fast and stable and sweet for overclocking if u wanna do that.
processor: athlon tbird 1.33
1.33 is just fine and u can overclock it higher if u need more performance. ignore what ppl say about the palomino, for now the tbird is more than enough and is accessible.

 

[haut]

I think the Epox board will be my choice along with a 1.2 GHz Athlon. I like the idea of 512MB RAM fom crucial for $90. I will probably go with the MSI GeForce2 Pro GTS and am still undecided on the monitor. I'll get the Pioneer 16X slot load DVD and a Plextor 12x burner. The TB Santa Cruz will be fine for me, especially since I'm not doing hifi recording yet. I'm trying to get a deal on the WD 30GB 7200RPM drive from Office Depot. Best Buy has it for $80 (thanks hot deals forum) and OD should match the price. I'll probably get the Netgear NIC and a Mitsumi floppy. I think I'll go with the Enlight 7237 because 4 bays could come in handy, plus Enlights are great to work on. My total, shipped, for everything right now would be about $1,025. I'm ordering almost everything from Mwave and Newegg (except the TB SC because Mwave is out). That price is without monitor and printer. Could I fit a 19&quot; monitor in a dorm room? Thanks for all the suggestions.
--Ryan