Going nuts trying to find a PSU, could use some advice

[FastEddie]

Originally posted by: Soldier

Originally posted by: FastEddie

The PCPC units put out 34/38A on the 12v rail....

That's part of my argument---you don't need 38a on the 12v rail for an Sli box. 28a to 34a will run any sli configuration you put together.

Your making a major mistake by equating SLi and lower power requirements. The power requirements of SLi based cards are no less on the power supply, they simply direct additional current through the PCI-E slot to handle the cards load. The cards still pull a lot of power, especialy in SLi. Not to mention all of the other components that still need to be powered such as drives, case fans, and overclcoked CPU's that still pull their full load of power regardless of slot type on a motherboard.

You still don't need 38a on the 12v rail. Dual 6800 Ultra's draw just under 9amps for the pair of them. If you couple that with a worst case scenerio (130nm FX53) that adds another 9amps to the task. That's 18amps between processor and graphics. The motherboard will draw about 4amps off the 12v rail (remainder is drawn off the 3.3v & 5v) which puts you at about 22a. The remainder of devices (drives, fans, pci, etc won't draw a total of 4amps off the 12v rail. That's 26a MAX (worst case possible), so with a 20% margin that brings your maximum amp draw (with the margin) just under 33a.

Note--a new 90nm FX55 draws about 3amps less that the FX53, which makes 34a a margin of over 30%. I mean, have a psu with a 38a rating on the 12v rail, but it's major overkill.

 

[RY62]

Originally posted by: FastEddie

Note--a new 90nm FX55 draws about 3amps less that the FX53, which makes 34a a margin of over 30%. I mean, have a psu with a 38a rating on the 12v rail, but it's major overkill.

IMO a certain amount of overkill is important.

The ratings on most cheaper power supplies are peak ratings and not what you can use 24/7.

Most supplies are rated at very low temps. When you run them at normal room temps, their ratings drop significantly. When you then run them at max load, they can get very hot and the max power can really drop.

If you ever plan on upgrading any of the parts, power requirements seem to keep going up.

I'm not saying that everyone needs a PC Power & Cooling supply, but the power supply is such a critical part of the system that it's not something I would cut corners on. I like knowing that my PCP&C has plenty of clean power to spare.

 

[ts3433]

Originally posted by: RY62

Originally posted by: FastEddie

Note--a new 90nm FX55 draws about 3amps less that the FX53, which makes 34a a margin of over 30%. I mean, have a psu with a 38a rating on the 12v rail, but it's major overkill.

IMO a certain amount of overkill is important.

The ratings on most cheaper power supplies are peak ratings and not what you can use 24/7.

Most supplies are rated at very low temps. When you run them at normal room temps, their ratings drop significantly. When you then run them at max load, they can get very hot and the max power can really drop.

If you ever plan on upgrading any of the parts, power requirements seem to keep going up.

I'm not saying that everyone needs a PC Power & Cooling supply, but the power supply is such a critical part of the system that it's not something I would cut corners on. I like knowing that my PCP&C has plenty of clean power to spare.

Thing is, the XClio is not "cutting corners"--Channel Well-made PSUs (Antec) work fine for just about any consumer-level application. It has headroom for future upgrading. 38A for even an SLI system is simply insane unless you have something like ten 15K SCSI drives.

As for ratings, the XClios/Antecs/Enermaxes, Seasonics, OCZ (certain Topower units) and Fortron/Sparkle/Zippy units are not rated with the low standards that generics are, but I'll concede on their methods probably not being as strict/accurate in a real-world environment as PCP&C. Just remember that this by itself should not make or break the deal.


FastEddie = winnar.

 

[Interitus]

FWIW,

I have the Seasonic Super Silencer 460w in my Nforce4 rig. Runs everything just wonderful. I think mine's a 24a single 12v rail as well. Very quiet and HIGHLY efficient PSU's. Run incredibly cool too.

My setup:

The Seasonic 460w
A8N-SLI Deluxe
A64 3200+ Winnie @ 2.3ghz
2x512 OCZ Plat Rev2 @ 230
1x6600GT
1x160GB Samsung HDD
1xNEC DVD-RW
1xDVD-ROM
1XTV Tuner card
5x120mm fans

No reason yours shouldn't run on that Seasonic even OC'd

 

[NeoDaywalker]

Sheesh, why the hell isnt anyone recommending Enermax?

http://www.enermax.com.tw/products_page.php?Tid=1&gon=261&Gid=18&Gid2=45

Best PSU maker on the planet.

 

[FastEddie]

Originally posted by: NeoDaywalker
Sheesh, why the hell isnt anyone recommending Enermax?

http://www.enermax.com.tw/products_page.php?Tid=1&gon=261&Gid=18&Gid2=45

Best PSU maker on the planet.

Enermax makes excellent psu's, and I do recommend four of their single rail models. That particular dual rail supply has problems when running a pair of 6800 Ultra's---seen in significant voltage drops on the primary 12v rail. We beat the topic to death right here, with this particular 600W psu---> The Dual Rail v Single Rail Challange

And Interitus you are running about 17a off the 12v rail with your config, so for you, 24a works real well.

 

[imported_Soldier]

Originally posted by: ts3433
Channel Well-made PSUs (Antec) work fine for just about any consumer-level application. the XClios/Antecs/Enermaxes, Seasonics, OCZ (certain Topower units) and Fortron/Sparkle/Zippy units are not rated with the low standards that generics are

In my eyes the supplies listed above are the "generics" with the exception of the OCZ. I dont have any first hand knowledge of the Zippy but the cost is even higher than PCPC supplies with a shorter warrenty, so why bother. Im not advocating everyone buy a PCPC supply, but if your going to build a hi-performance machine skimping on the foundation makes zero sense. I guess it all comes down to what you consider skimping, in my eyes thats running a second best supply.

RY62 you summed up the enitre issue very well, thanks.

 

[Tiorapatea]

Originally posted by: Abunai
Only question I have about that Seasonic is the 22A on the 12V rail. Is that enough?

Man, seems like a lot of people are on a "power trip" (not everyone).

On topic again, I believe the Seasonic will do it for you. Why? Because maximum theoretical power draw will not occur simultaneously for all your components, e.g hard disk spin-up (at boot time) will not occur simultaneously with maximum power drain for the graphics card. If I had more to spend, yes I would want a little extra comfort. On the other hand, Seasonics are rock solid units. They can handle severe voltages drops from your power company and they are extremely efficient (so they do not heat up so much, which tends to reduce other units ability to supply their rated power).

Look for reviews at www.silentpcreview.com. Folks there are primarily interested in quiet computing. As a result, they are really interested in knowing just how much power they really need to supply because an overspecified power supply will likely not run at its maximum efficiency, which means it will run hotter than necessary, which means more cooling will be required, which makes the power supply noisier. They obviously don't want to underspecify the PSU either because aside from silence, they also want to run their computers like anybody else, including in some cases overclocking, gaming etc..

 

[FastEddie]

And I guess you are saying that the ultimate quiet PC is the one that won't even boot. I can see it not getting any quieter than that.

Generally, 22a for the Neo 2 Plat is a no go---the board likes a good source of power. But don't take my word for it, go here---> MSI Forums//A64-nVidia

 

[Tiorapatea]

Originally posted by: FastEddie
Generally, 22a for the Neo 2 Plat is a no go---the board likes a good source of power. But don't take my word for it, go here---> MSI Forums//A64-nVidia

I already did this before making the first reply to this thread.

Nowhere is it shown that 22A is a no-go for a Neo 2 Plat. People have had various issues with e.g. Antec (aka Channel Well aka XClio) supplies but there is no indication that running sub-24A is a common denominator for these problems. It is true that MSI recommends >24A but bear in mind that not all PSUs rated at 24A are created equal.

 

[tcsenter]

Originally posted by: Soldier
No one on the planet makes a power supply as good as PC Power and Cooling, no one.

Nothing you can buy "stomps" on the Turbo Cool, if your lucky it might match it, which the "Zippy" does not when you look at the fine print.

Zippy and Fortron Source, among at least one other power supply ODM/OEM, make the power supplies for PC Power and Cooling. PC P&C has in the past used rebadged Zippy and Fortron Source standard production models for at least two of its Turbo Cool models (300W and 400W).

 

[Abunai]

OK guys I guess Ive narrowed it down to two. I figure Ill just go and spend a whole bill on this thing and not have anything to worry about. Its either going to be Enermax 460 or PC P&C 470 Silencer.

Here's the Enermax
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproductde...TT=Power+Supplies&CMP=OTC-pr1c3grabb3r

And the PC P&C of course is here.
http://www.pcpowerandcooling.com/produc...pplies/ultra_quiet/silencers/index.htm

Whaddaya think?

 

[NeoDaywalker]

Originally posted by: FastEddie

Originally posted by: NeoDaywalker
Sheesh, why the hell isnt anyone recommending Enermax?

http://www.enermax.com.tw/products_page.php?Tid=1&gon=261&Gid=18&Gid2=45

Best PSU maker on the planet.

Enermax makes excellent psu's, and I do recommend four of their single rail models. That particular dual rail supply has problems when running a pair of 6800 Ultra's---seen in significant voltage drops on the primary 12v rail. We beat the topic to death right here, with this particular 600W psu---> The Dual Rail v Single Rail Challange

From the thread you linked me to, only one person seemed to have problems. And that could of been because of something else going wrong in his system, not the PSU. But oh well... who knows.

Im supporting Enermax because i bought lately a 485W Enermax Noisetaker, to replace my old and crappy 365W Chieftec. The sudden reboots that plagued me before are a thing of the past now and im very happy about it.

Let us remember though that the SLI technology is still new and un-matured in many ways. No wonder power supplies fail to produce adequate power for it yet.

So for the time being, i still give my vote to Enermax

 

[ribbon13]

Originally posted by: Soldier

Originally posted by: ribbon13

Oh.. and this stomps all over the Turbo-Cool 510 SLI
Zippy PSL-6701P-SATA

Doubt it. Nothing you can buy "stomps" on the Turbo Cool, if your lucky it might match it, which the "Zippy" does not when you look at the fine print.

Fine print?

Specifications:
Type: ATX
Maximum Power: 700W
PFC: Active
Hold-up Time: 16 ms MINIMUM AT FULL LOAD & 90 VAC INPUT VOLTAGE
Efficiency: 70% TYPICAL, AT FULL LOAD
Over Voltage Protection: +5V: 5.7V ~ 6.5V, 3.3V: 3.9 ~ 4.3V, 12V: 13.6 ~ 15V
Overload Protection: 110 ~ 160% MAX.
Input Voltage: 90 ~ 264 VAC FULL RANGE
Input Frequency Range: 47 ~ 63Hz
Input Current: 11A/5A
Output: +3.3V@30A, +5V@35A, +12V@45A, -5V@0.8A, -12V@1A, +5VSB@2A
Approvals: UL 1950, CSA 22.2 NO/950, TÜV IEC 950

The ONLY other PSU on the market that matches that zippy is this ($150 more) and I own both of those and the Turbo-Cool 510 SLI. You have no idea what you're talking about.


OP, given the two you listed (I'd take the Silencer 470) have you considered this. Sparkle are OEM by Fortron Source. Very nice deal for $104. No bells or whistles though, straight PSU. I'd still reccomend the Seasonic 400 I linked before. It's 22A on the 12v should be more than enough. I'm running dual opterons, 4 gigs of ram, and two high-end GPUs (X850 XT PE and Realizm 800), and six 15k SCSIs and my system only draws 460w of power in a 35°C enviroment averaged over 12 hours.

 

[imported_Soldier]

Originally posted by: ribbon13

You have no idea what you're talking about.

Good one, yeah 12 years of building custom rig's and I dont know what Im talking about. Did you read the warrenty? No? That's were the Zippy says 3 and the PCPC says 5 for less money. Also you can state your opinion about any supply "stomping" on the Turbo Cool but where's the proof? Got a link for those of us that dont know what we are talking about? Or are we supposed to just belive you because you have 4971 posts? It's common knowledge to anyone that builds thier own rig's or does custom builts for a living that PCPC is top dog when "everything" is taken into account.

 

[imported_Soldier]

Originally posted by: tcsenter
Zippy and Fortron Source, among at least one other power supply ODM/OEM, make the power supplies for PC Power and Cooling.

Didnt know about the Zippy but I did know about Fortron making supplies for PCPC. Its not who makes it, it's what goes into it that makes the supply. Parts are parts, the quality comes from specing top shelf components, which you wont be buying at bargin prices. There is a real difference between a 65 dollar supply and a 200 dollar one even though they might come from the same factory assembly line.

 

[tcsenter]

Like I said, PC Power rebadged standard Zippy and Fortron Source production models for its Turbo Cool line.

Zippy AP2-5400F-RV2 and PC Power Turbo Cool 400W were identical, as were the Fortron Source FSP300-60GT and Turbo Cool 300W. These are no longer in the PC Power line, but I have no reason to believe PC Power does anything special with the power supplies it rebadges.

Its possible that they have some custom requirements, but then major ODM/OEM manufacturers always have a line for their private label and OEM clients, many of which are not identical to their own branded models.

PC Power also rebadged PSUs made by Magtech, which formed from the now defunct US Power & Technology, but quality concerns forced that relationship to end. And I also hear Channel Well makes some models, whether Turbo Cool or other line, I don't know.

 

[Pr0d1gy]

Originally posted by: live2game
He dosen't have a sli rig he has agp

Exactly, yet everyone keeps suggesting the ATX 2.0 power supplies. What you need is an ATX 1.0 power supply with a decent amount of power & a respectable amount of stability. I would think the 465 watt Enermax I saw on Pricewatch for around $50-60 would give you more than you would ever need from a power supply. Check out Pricewatch and you will find it.

 

[tallman45]

Get the Seasonic, many of the others will bleed you of wasted $$ in their energy Inefficiency.

Xclio is 70% efficient at full power, yeh right well what about 50% power, if it is like other Antecs then that is 55%-60%. The Seasonic 80% efficient at 50% power.

Even the Neopower is only 60% efficient at 50% power

 

[Abunai]

*scratches head*

Aren't the Enermax and PC P&C both ATX1.3? Thats OK right?

 

[Tiorapatea]

Yes, ATX12V 1.1, 1.3 or whatever will be fine for you - 2.0 and higher are dual rail, which you want to avoid with your motherboard.

 

[Tiorapatea]

BTW, tell us your new budget and then we can start this thread all over again .

 

[Abunai]

Hehe, bout a $100 for the PSU. Figured those two choices we're among the better at that price. Im kinda leaning towards the Enermax for the big ass 12v rail, but P&C's effeciency is hard to deny. Decisions decisions...

edit- Also was meaning to ask you guys how is the stability when using a 24 to 20 pin adapter? I've read some accounts of 20 to 24 pin adapters causing trouble but havent seen much on going the other way around.

 

[FastEddie]

Doesn't the Enermax come with the 20+4 pin power connector?

 

[Tiorapatea]

How about this Seasonic, 460W, 25A on 12V rail? 110 bucks but with a $30 mail-in rebate. Really, this is a great deal. Search for reviews of this; there are many and all very positive.

No, I do not have any relationship with Seasonic or any retailer.