Going from CRT to LCD

[Ronin13]

My venerable 19" Sony Trinitron CRT monitor is on it's last legs, so I'm in need of LCD recommendations.

My needs are Surfing, light Photo stuff, some Movie watching and Gaming (but not too much fastpaced 3d Gaming).

I don't want a widescreen monitor, I don't want a TN panel and I don't want a glossy screen. I'm looking for something in the 19-21" range, preferably white.

So far, I've narrowed my choices down to the EIZO FlexScan S2000 and the Samsung 971P.

The EIZO is 20.1" @ 1600x1200 (and costs about $1100 here), the Samsung is 19" @ 1280x1024 (can be had for about $600 here). I'm currently running my 19" CRT @ 1280x960.

Optimally, I would get a panel with a 4:3 ratio, as I replay old games just as much as I play new ones - which often are at a locked 4:3 ratio (like StarCraft, Diablo, Fallout, Baldurs Gate, Heroes of might & Magic II, etc.).

But I'm afraid that 1600x1200 may be too demanding on my rig in newer 3d games. Even though I have a pretty good config at present (2.4 GHz Core 2 Duo, 2 gigs RAM and a 8800GTS w/ 640 Mb RAM), I prefer to play games at a lower res so I can max out all the eye candy and maybe add some AA and AF. And I'm not planning on upgrading for a couple of years.

Questions for those with 19" 1280x1024 displays:

1: Does the 0.294 mm dotpitch make text too coarse?

2: How bad is it when a 4:3 game is resized to the 5:4 screen? (Or do you play with the 4:3 ratio and black bars on the screen?)

Questions for those with 1600x1200 displays:

3: Do you feel it's a big deal to get the sharpness of the 0.255 mm dotpitch, as well as the added extra viewable area of the higher res?

4: How much trouble are you having in trying to keep up with newer games, when trying to run them at the screen's native res?

General questions:

5: I know that xtknight in his brilliant 'LCD Thread' states that the Samsung 971P is 'NOT suitable for any multimedia or motion video editing because of poor response time control.', but given my stated uses above, will it be a poor choice? (It did get some pretty good reviews here and (more seriously) here (in Danish).

6: Does anyone think that the higher price of the EIZO can be justified? (For my uses.)

7: Would there be any reason to wait for the refresh of the Samsung 971P - the 971P+?

Thanks for any and all advice

 

[zagood]

12x10
1. Text is fine.
2. Games usually have 12x10 (vs. 12x9) in their resolution settings so they don't scale nor do they letterbox. If they don't, the scaling is negligable.

Edit:
3. I'm stupid and didn't read the games you listed. Sorry.

-z

 

[j0j081]

why not get a widescreen? it will be more futureproof and a lot nicer anyway IMO.

 

[imported_Scoop]

I didn't know you could still find a 4:3 LCD in stores.. I thought I got the last one 1.5 years ago

Unless you go for second hand..

I guess I could answer one question for you.
4: How much trouble are you having in trying to keep up with newer games, when trying to run them at the screen's native res?
- I usually can't run any games on the native resolution of 1600x1200 on my Viewsonic VP2030, unless they're few years old. This isn't a big issue in my mind like for some. I don't know if it's an issue of a good scaling on my LCD or what when people say they're gaming picture quality goes way down if using other than native resolution, probably it's just in their heads. If I'm using 1600x1200 playing newer games, I'm probably on LOW for quality settings, and that's a lot worse than 1280x1024 on medium/high.

 

[Ronin13]

*bump*

 

[nevbie]

I am also a widescreen "hater" (as the manufacturers have almost abandonded 4:3 because of them).

I have passively looked for suitable monitors for the past year.. and my "maybe?" list has:
Viewsonic VP2030B (1600x1200 MVA according to prad.de)
Philips 200P7ES (S or ES for silver) (1600x1200 S-IPS/P-MVA according to prad.de)

Perhaps those would be worth of checking for you? Or then you have already checked..

I've been thinking of getting a widescreen and using 1:1 or aspect ratio scaling from nvidia drivers (i hear they have such) for those older games though.. as manufacturer attention is on widescreens, it's more probable that among them are the best quality LCDs too.

If your CRT has a functional 1600x1200 mode, you could check how games run with it on your current system.. unless you think it makes the CRT explode.

 

[yacoub]

A 19" at 1280x is like a 22" widescreen at 1680x or a 27" widescreen at 1920x. In other words, you're at the high end of the size spectrum for the given resolution, so the pixels will be more noticeable and the image on the screen will be less detailed/sharp than with a smaller physical display using the same resolution.

The normal display size to resolution ratio would be:
19":1600x
20" widescreen: 1680x
24" widescreen: 1920x

Going higher on the physical size but keeping the resolution is generally a poor idea but the display will likely be cheaper to purchase.

Btw i love my 20" widescreen, but it was a first-run 2007wfp when they actually used a good display panel (S-IPS).

 

[HexiumVII]

Find a Soyo 24", cheap and brilliant.

 

[Ronin13]

Originally posted by: j0j081
why not get a widescreen? it will be more futureproof and a lot nicer anyway IMO.

I don't want a WS because I very seldom watch movies on my PC and when I do I don't mind the black bars at the top and the bottom. On the other hand, when I replay my older 4:3 games, I don't want the image stretched or the black bars at the sides (this may sound like being 'the same difference', but my PC is more for playing than watching movies - I have a TV for that). When I stated 'some Movie watching' among my uses, it's because I want the panel to be able to show movie trailers and other smaller clips at a reasonable quality - not stuff that really requires a WS monitor.

Also, in my experience I need the horizontal space more than the vertical space. If I should get a WS screen with the same viewable height as the 19" 1280x1024 monitor I'm contemplating, it would (obviously) put a greater strain on my graphics card (in 3d games), which is another of my concerns.

I'm sure that WS has it's merits, but for my uses it's not what I want at this time.

Originally posted by: nevbie
If your CRT has a functional 1600x1200 mode, you could check how games run with it on your current system.. unless you think it makes the CRT explode.

My good ole Sony is not in danger of exploding It runs 1920x1440 @ 70Hz, 1600x1200@ 85Hz or - my preferred resolution - 1280x960 @ a rocksteady 100Hz. So I've already tried some games out @ 1600x1200.

Stuff like Warhammer 40K: Dawn of War, Company of Heroes and Neverwinter Nights 2 ran flawlessly (though I tend to prefer the larger GUI of the 1280x960 res). Chronicles of Riddick ran fine @ 1600x1200, but 'felt' smoother @ 1280x960. Splinter Cell: Double Agent ran perfectly, as did Titan Quest and Baldur's Gate II (but some parts of BG2 were way too small @ 1600x1200 on my 19" CRT. And being a 4:3 ratio game, it doesn't have the 1280x1024 res, but the 1280x960 instead). Somewhat surprisingly, Jade Empire and Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II both ran noticeably sluggish @ 1600x1200 compared to 1280x960. All these tests were at the highest quality settings, but without AA and AF.

So, while a 1600x1200 display would be great for surfing and the 4:3 ratio for my old games, it seems that a 1280x1024 panel will be better for my uses (which includes letting my hardware stay viable for some time).

Also, I really like the look of the 971P (warning: Big image), as it will compliment my cabinet and this keyboard (the wired one) very nicely.

A couple of repeat questions:

5: I know that xtknight in his brilliant 'LCD Thread' states that the Samsung 971P is 'NOT suitable for any multimedia or motion video editing because of poor response time control.', but given my stated uses above, will it be a poor choice?

7: Would there be any reason to wait for the refresh of the Samsung 971P - the 971P+?

 

[taltamir]

How much money do you have to spend? How much money are you willing to spend? I went monitor shopping not too long ago and nothing short of the 24 inch widescreen 1920x1200 dell ultrasharp was enough for me. (700$)... I actually got that one by conincidence not by buying... Or I probably would have gotten another 700$... before I was checking viewsonic and a few other 300$ 22 inch panels...

Set a price, find the best in the price... if the best in that price range is still no good, set your price higher and look there...

Anyways... there are no good 3:4 LCD monitors, period... there are only ANCIENT crappy 15 and 17 inch monitors with VGA input only and max res of 800x600...
Any 19 inch I know about is a 4:5 (or widescreen)... at which case the old games you are playing will either be stretched, or have black bars... So you might as well go with widescreen and set your video drivers to make it have black bars on the side, thats what I do with old games...

I Would NOT do a widescreen on anything less then 22 inch, in fact 24 inch is my personal minimum... otherwise it is just to short...

But if you absolutely mustn't do widescreen then 4:5 is your only option... best 19 inch I know of is a very very good NEC, amazing color, amazing speed... and its glossy...

Really you are far too fussy, every single one of your requirements rules out 95% of the monitors on the market. I simply cannot think of a single monitor ever made that fits your requirements.

When shopping for monitors I don't say "this is what I want"... I say "what is available right now? at what prices?" And then I choose the thing that fits me most... What I want is a flying car and a holodeck, they don't exist. I go with what is offered to me in reality and choose... Your choices right now are either an extremely crappy monitor. A left over (ie, if you can find one) medium quality 19 inch 4:5 glossy monitor. Or a 22/24 inch widescreen monitor... even those start from crappy so choose carefully. 300$ has always been the sweet spot for a monitor. and 500-700$ the "one level above"...

 

[kmmatney]

My 24" Widescreen monitor (in my sig) is not a TN panel, and it has hardware scaling for 4:3 resolutions on older games. It essentially turns the monitor into a 1600 x 1200 display. You access the hardware scaling through the OSD menu.


Edit: You can still get 4:3 displays, such as this one:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824016064

However they will all be TN displays.

 

[Ronin13]

Originally posted by: taltamir
How much money do you have to spend? How much money are you willing to spend?

In the OP I stated that I'm looking at two models - one costing $600 the other $1100. If I found a display that did everything I wanted it to I would be willing to go higher.

Anyways... there are no good 3:4 LCD monitors, period... there are only ANCIENT crappy 15 and 17 inch monitors with VGA input only and max res of 800x600...

Did you not see the link in the OP to the 4:3 monitor I'm debating?

Here are some others:

Acer AL2023
EIZO S2100
Fujitsu Siemens ScenicView P20-2
HP LP2065
Iiayma H511S W2
LaCie 320
Lenovo L201p
LG L2000CN-SF
Nec 2070NX
Nec 2070VX
Nec 2170VX
Nec 2090UXi-SV
Nec 2190UXi-SV
Nec 2090UXi
Nec 2190UXi
Nec 2190UXp
Phillips 200P7MG
Samsung 204B
Samsung 204BM
Samsung 214T
Samsung XL20
Viewsonic VP2030

But if you absolutely mustn't do widescreen then 4:5 is your only option...

Originally posted by: kmmatney
You can still get 4:3 displays... However they will all be TN displays.

Not true. See the panels listed above.


A humble plea:

Originally posted by: Ronin13
I don't want a widescreen monitor, I don't want a TN panel and I don't want a glossy screen. I'm looking for something in the 19-21" range, preferably white.

and

Originally posted by: Ronin13
I'm sure that WS has it's merits, but for my uses it's not what I want at this time.

Let's try and stay on topic and keep the WS recommendations for another thread, please.

A couple of repeat questions:

5: I know that xtknight in his brilliant 'LCD Thread' states that the Samsung 971P is 'NOT suitable for any multimedia or motion video editing because of poor response time control.', but given my stated uses above, will it be a poor choice?

7: Would there be any reason to wait for the refresh of the Samsung 971P - the 971P+?

 

[Denithor]

I have the Samsung 204B (20.1" 1600x1200 TN panel) and it's great for gaming. Nice response time means no ghosting and high resolution gives me superior crisp text when browing etc. If I had to do it over again I might instead have purchased a 22" WS but at the time (>1 year ago) those were simply too expensive for me to seriously consider.