Going from Android to iOS...

[Oyeve]

easier to use.
i really hate the way the stock google player organizes music.

and don't exaggerate. the iphone doesn't sound like garbage.

No, hes not exaggerating, the iphone sounds like garbage. Considering they invented the ipod one would think they would put some thought into its player, but no, after 10 years they still dont have a proper eq system. Hell, they dont even have bass or treble.

 

[dagamer34]

Disagree on the keyboard. The keyboard may be small, but as Anandtech's iPhone 2G review said, you really just gotta trust it. It will correct amazingly. I think half the time I may not hit the button well because they're so small yet the iPhone registers.

I can't say the same for the Nexus 4 stock keyboard. Sure the buttons are bigger, but it's not very intelligent in catching obvious misspells or mispresses. Maybe Swiftkey does a better job, but Google's stock keyboard is terrible. If we were to normalize the two screens, I'm almost confident the iPhone keyboard would win out in accuracy in typing.

Even today, I find myself swyping 2-3 times on the Nexus 4 to really exaggerate the swypes so that it picks up what I'm typing. It's just meh.

Apple's keyboard might win out in thumb typing, but would definitely lose to the Google keyboard with swiping and easy access to multiple auto-correct words.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

what about my other points regarding the kb?
no punctuation/longpress?

have you used swiftkey before?

Sure no punctuation, but I'm pretty quick at switching between numbers/symbols and letters. I used to be faster back when I only had an iPod Touch and a totally different phone, but it just takes getting used to.

I agree punctuation and long press would be good, but the former is not as possible with the small screen. To me these are still less important than an accurate keyboard.

As for Swiftkey, I hate it. They're not interested in making a useful keyboard. You're forced to use the numpad. Sure I have to get used to it, but every other keyboard on the market uses a row format. Furthermore, this keyboard just lacks options. I can't customize space after picking, etc. If they're supposed to be the king at prediction such that I can get a predicted email login, picking it is useless because it auto adds a space. Hooray?

undervolt and underclock. use a custom kernel (franco's).
check out android forums like xda. some people get almost 2 days of usage and 4-5 hours of OST.

but yes, on a typical workday, i have wifi for all but 2-3 hours during my commute.

Undervolt doesn't significantly help with battery life. You're better off working on stamping out wakelocks. Once your CPU goes into idle/sleep, you're saving plenty of power. The same applies with desktop computing. You can UV, but that's not going to buy you much. It's idle states that count. Furthermore, let's stop quoting user statistics. I can show you SGS2 and Nexus S threads where people get 2 days of usage. You can't compare apples and oranges anyway because everyone's usage is different. When people make outrageous claims like that I know they're on Wifi and use very few services. The minute you flip it to 3G it will drain like mad and die within a day.

4-5 hrs SOT means nothing. Anand's wifi bench got 6 hrs on stock kernel, so what does that mean?

Apple's keyboard might win out in thumb typing, but would definitely lose to the Google keyboard with swiping and easy access to multiple auto-correct words.

Yes so it lacks swiping, but swiping is really a product resulting from Google's inability to design a good keyboard. Yeah sure it's a different way of typing, and I feel the number of users on it stems largely from the fact that Samsung bundles it with their phones and the fact that Google's tapping keyboard is meh. Furthermore, let's not act like Google's Swiping is even good at all. It's far less accurate than when I tried Swype in 2010 or so. I find myself often swiping 2-3 times on the stock keyboard and having to exaggerate the bounces to get the word pick there. On Swype, a casual rough swipe is enough to have it register the world.

As for multiple auto-correct, you don't need 3 choices if your first choice is good enough. That's what I've noticed about iOS. It usually gets the correction right already. On the other hand I can swipe on the stock keyboard in Android and all 3 choices will be totally WTF. I'll have swipe again to get similar choices before doing a 3rd time going slowly and exaggerating the bounces to finally get close. My point is if Google just perfected its keyboard we wouldn't be investing so much effort into new keyboards.

 

[QueBert]

no wonder Apple stock is going down the drain. Without Jobs, people are no longer suckered.
people need to realize companies must make what we want, not cram crap and expect us to chew

So please point me to a 3.5-4" high end Android phone, since companies MUST make what we want right? Or does that only apply to Apple?

Not everyone wants a 6" phone, believe it or not some of us actually want what Apple makes.

 

[luv2liv]

So please point me to a 3.5-4" high end Android phone, since companies MUST make what we want right? Or does that only apply to Apple?

Not everyone wants a 6" phone, believe it or not some of us actually want what Apple makes.

im not aware of any 3.5-4" high end android phone. that's because android phone manufacturers realized what apple failed to understand or ignoring ... people are not using phones solely to make phone calls. everything is better on a bigger screen for emails, websites, videos, photos, as the OP mentioned.

i've seen hardcore iphone users switched to Samsung phones just because they cant stand apple's puny screen options anymore. im 99% sure they will go back to apple once a 4.5 to 6 inch screen comes by.

 

[WelshBloke]

So please point me to a 3.5-4" high end Android phone, since companies MUST make what we want right? Or does that only apply to Apple?

Not everyone wants a 6" phone, believe it or not some of us actually want what Apple makes.

What do you think that the sales figures of a 3.5" phone would be if there was a choice of a similar larger one?

Who the hell would buy one and why?

 

[Ravynmagi]

I think there is a pretty sizable market of people that want a smaller powerful phone. Smaller phones fit more comfortably in pockets (not everyone wears loose clothing with giant pockets). Smaller size is also great for those that use their phones while working out, jogging. Easier for single handed use (you can keep one hand on the steering wheel while flying down the highway and tweet out messages about how much the traffic sucks).

 

[Midwayman]

I think there is a pretty sizable market of people that want a smaller powerful phone.

Sure, but its a minority if screen size in android phones says anything. If there was a huge demand for smaller screens, their screen size wouldn't be inching up all the time. Or you'd see at least one company make a high end small screen model. I know samsung did a galaxy mini awhile ago and HTC did a smaller version of the One X line, but they were both midrange components. I guess the market research is saying people who care about size mostly don't care as much about specs.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

As for Swiftkey, I hate it. They're not interested in making a useful keyboard. You're forced to use the numpad. Sure I have to get used to it, but every other keyboard on the market uses a row format. Furthermore, this keyboard just lacks options. I can't customize space after picking, etc. If they're supposed to be the king at prediction such that I can get a predicted email login, picking it is useless because it auto adds a space. Hooray?

that's like, your opinion man.
numpad style is much better than row. who doesn't prefer numbers in a cluster, rather than spread across the width of a device?
plus the number locks indefinitely, unlike the iphone where it goes back to alphabet after hitting enter/space.

Undervolt doesn't significantly help with battery life. You're better off working on stamping out wakelocks. Once your CPU goes into idle/sleep, you're saving plenty of power. The same applies with desktop computing. You can UV, but that's not going to buy you much. It's idle states that count. Furthermore, let's stop quoting user statistics. I can show you SGS2 and Nexus S threads where people get 2 days of usage. You can't compare apples and oranges anyway because everyone's usage is different. When people make outrageous claims like that I know they're on Wifi and use very few services. The minute you flip it to 3G it will drain like mad and die within a day.

4-5 hrs SOT means nothing. Anand's wifi bench got 6 hrs on stock kernel, so what does that mean?

in my experience it does. i did nothing but load matrix kernel which by default undervolts and my battery life improved dramatically.

what does anand's test do? 6 hours straight of keeping the screen on?
the 5 hours I'm quoting is spread across 2 days, so it doesn't mean nothing.

 

[QueBert]

What do you think that the sales figures of a 3.5" phone would be if there was a choice of a similar larger one?

Who the hell would buy one and why?

Nobody could answer this better than a guess. I know the best selling phone is 4", the 2nd best is 3.7". Now if there was a 5" iPhone it COULD be the best seller. But that's speculation at best. I go off data available. The 2 best selling phones are both 4" and under. I know for me if there was a 5.5" iPhone I'd still stick to my 4S, it's the perfect size for me and my needs. I don't even really like the iPhone 5's size to be honest, and I have to imagine there are other people who think like me.

 

[jhansman]

Bye....

Enjoy life in the walled garden.

 

[Red Storm]

Nobody could answer this better than a guess. I know the best selling phone is 4", the 2nd best is 3.7". Now if there was a 5" iPhone it COULD be the best seller. But that's speculation at best. I go off data available. The 2 best selling phones are both 4" and under. I know for me if there was a 5.5" iPhone I'd still stick to my 4S, it's the perfect size for me and my needs. I don't even really like the iPhone 5's size to be honest, and I have to imagine there are other people who think like me.

And we all know why those two are the best sellers... because they're the only options for iOS. It's not like iOS users have the choice to buy larger phones.

 

[Midwayman]

Nobody could answer this better than a guess. I know the best selling phone is 4", the 2nd best is 3.7". Now if there was a 5" iPhone it COULD be the best seller. But that's speculation at best. I go off data available. The 2 best selling phones are both 4" and under. I know for me if there was a 5.5" iPhone I'd still stick to my 4S, it's the perfect size for me and my needs. I don't even really like the iPhone 5's size to be honest, and I have to imagine there are other people who think like me.

And if we rank sales by screen size instead of by specific device like any reasonable person would you see more penetration the bigger the screen.

Not the best graph, but....

 

[WelshBloke]

Nobody could answer this better than a guess. I know the best selling phone is 4", the 2nd best is 3.7". Now if there was a 5" iPhone it COULD be the best seller. But that's speculation at best. I go off data available. The 2 best selling phones are both 4" and under. I know for me if there was a 5.5" iPhone I'd still stick to my 4S, it's the perfect size for me and my needs. I don't even really like the iPhone 5's size to be honest, and I have to imagine there are other people who think like me.

This would be why every manufacturer is slowly upping the size of their displays, because people want smaller screens?

Not to be insulting QueBert but you generally have no idea what you want. You say one thing and do the opposite a lot of the time depending on what the current debate is about.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

that's like, your opinion man.
numpad style is much better than row. who doesn't prefer numbers in a cluster, rather than spread across the width of a device?
plus the number locks indefinitely, unlike the iphone where it goes back to alphabet after hitting enter/space.

It's a matter of personal preference. Every other device out there uses a number row. That's fine if you like the numpad, it just takes getting used to. However Swiftkey isn't interested in letting you pick. It's their way or you don't use the keyboard. Tough. All these years of development and you get barely any options?

The iPhone doesn't lock the numbers, but nor does Google's stock keyboard, as well as 3rd party keyboards like Kii. What do you say now? Honestly that's a decision they made. I'd say most people use numbers and then go back to words. I have 3 dogs. Get it? There may be cases where you're doing pure number input like 535 538 503 344, but how many people do that on their phone anyway? You just happen to like Swiftkey's implementation, but why do they HAVE to be different? If they're just trying to promote autocorrection and prediction algorithms, why change all these other aspects of the keyboard? Why not give us a choice in the app?

This would be why every manufacturer is slowly upping the size of their displays, because people want smaller screens?

I think the point is people want choice without sacrificing specs. In an ideal world I should be able to choose between a 4.3" and 5" phone with equal specs. That's not the reality though. It's true large screens do have a draw, but then people start figuring things out like ergonomics and all. Most people are more visual so of course a beautiful screen is more attractive. I probably went for that first. Then I started thinking ergonomics, and how my Nexus 4 is so much bulkier than the iPhone 5, etc. It's not that people want smaller phones. They just want choice. There's people out there who want small phones and ones who want large phones. The trend with laptops getting smaller and thinner and going to ultrabooks shows that people care more about portability than about raw performance or specs.

 

[WelshBloke]

...I think the point is people want choice without sacrificing specs. In an ideal world I should be able to choose between a 4.3" and 5" phone with equal specs. That's not the reality though.

The vast majority of people couldn't care less about specs. As long as the phone works well, does what they like and has a large eye catching screen it seems to fit what the public wants at the moment. Theres no way they are going to sell a smaller phone with worse battery life for the same price as a larger one even if it has the same SOC in it.

It's true large screens do have a draw, but then people start figuring things out like ergonomics and all. Most people are more visual so of course a beautiful screen is more attractive. I probably went for that first. Then I started thinking ergonomics, and how my Nexus 4 is so much bulkier than the iPhone 5, etc. It's not that people want smaller phones. They just want choice. There's people out there who want small phones and ones who want large phones. The trend with laptops getting smaller and thinner and going to ultrabooks shows that people care more about portability than about raw performance or specs.

All the research and sales figures show that the number of people who want small phones aren't worth the manufacturers worrying about. Now, yes, not everyone wants a Note 3 but the market trend is definitely showing that <4 inch phones are on the way out.

 

[QueBert]

This would be why every manufacturer is slowly upping the size of their displays, because people want smaller screens?

Not to be insulting QueBert but you generally have no idea what you want. You say one thing and do the opposite a lot of the time depending on what the current debate is about.

I didn't say people want smaller screens, I simply said big screens don't = big sales. There are plenty of 4.5"+ phones that flopped. Samsung sells because of their name more than anything. And the same "a 5"+ iPhone would sell better if Apple offered it!" could be said for Samsung if they produced a 4" high end phone. The bottom line is there's no 5" iPhone and there's no 4" Samsung phone, so nobody can do anything here other than speculate.

 

[WelshBloke]

I didn't say people want smaller screens, I simply said big screens don't = big sales. There are plenty of 4.5"+ phones that flopped. Samsung sells because of their name more than anything. And the same "a 5"+ iPhone would sell better if Apple offered it!" could be said for Samsung if they produced a 4" high end phone. The bottom line is there's no 5" iPhone and there's no 4" Samsung phone, so nobody can do anything here other than speculate.

But this is nothing to do with a Samsung vs apple thing. Both of them have upped the size of their flagship phones.
I can't believe that they have both done that without a ton of market research.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

But this is nothing to do with a Samsung vs apple thing. Both of them have upped the size of their flagship phones.
I can't believe that they have both done that without a ton of market research.

And Apple kept the width of the phone the same. So on a pure screen size argument, yes people want large screens, but there's other factors like ergonomics and practicality that come into play. You think Apple's marketing didn't dig in with tons of research to figure out that people want a phone they can easily hold?

Just because sales of large phones are climbing doesn't mean that it's the only direction we should go in. It's the fact that phone manufacturers led the sales there. All the flagships are large phones. People tend to buy phones they're familiar with like flagships, so the GS4 mini won't ever get that kind of popularity.

 

[poofyhairguy]

And Apple kept the width of the phone the same. So on a pure screen size argument, yes people want large screens, but there's other factors like ergonomics and practicality that come into play. You think Apple's marketing didn't dig in with tons of research to figure out that people want a phone they can easily hold?

Just because sales of large phones are climbing doesn't mean that it's the only direction we should go in. It's the fact that phone manufacturers led the sales there. All the flagships are large phones. People tend to buy phones they're familiar with like flagships, so the GS4 mini won't ever get that kind of popularity.

Not completely true. The Note was a non flagship with a huge screen and it was insanely huge hit. If the Mini is not a hit that is the market talking.

Heck the Note drove large screens more than anything else.

 

[Midwayman]

Not completely true. The Note was a non flagship with a huge screen and it was insanely huge hit. If the Mini is not a hit that is the market talking.

Heck the Note drove large screens more than anything else.

Yup, and phablets are supposed to double in sales this year. Still a drop in the bucket compared to normal 'large' phones, but they are popular. Probably mostly 'cause people can avoid buying a separate tablet.

 

[bearxor]

Not completely true. The Note was a non flagship with a huge screen and it was insanely huge hit. If the Mini is not a hit that is the market talking.

Heck the Note drove large screens more than anything else.

I'd disagree with both statements. The Note was a flagship and it wasn't an insanely huge hit.

The specs on the Note were equal to or better than either the International or US SGS2, launched in the same calendar year, which, IMO, puts it in to Flagship territory.

Just prior to the launch of the Note 2 (September 2012), it sold 10m units worldwide (The Verge, August 2012: http://bit.ly/NHhNno), which means it moved about 1m units a month. I might be a bit jaded, but I don't consider that an 'insanely huge hit'. For comparison, the SGS2 sold 40m units in almost two years and the SGS3 sold 50 million in only a year.

Not that I'm trying to say the Note's sales were BAD. I simply disagree with your summation of the device's market success. I would probably classify it as a 'surprising hit' and would argue that the SGS2 with it's 4.3-4.5" screen and the SGS3 with it's 4.8" screen did more to "drive large screens" than the original Note did.

Aside from all of that, I do believe that the Android market's large screen device sales are biased a lot by the lack of acceptable devices on the lower end of the spectrum. You simply CAN'T choose a Android device under 4.5" (and haven't been able to for the last two years) without sacrificing important features. Be it screen resolution (RAZR M) or processing power (HTC First). The RAZR M would have been a great device at the time, but was saddled with a 480x800 display. The HTC First's display would have been great, but came out at a time that quad-core Snapdragons were hitting the market.

If I were to choose an Android phone today, I wouldn't consider any device other than a HTC One, a SGS4 or a Nexus 4. I simply couldn't consider anything else based on hardware specs.

I'll throw in some more recent personal experience here. I loved the size of the Lumia 521. It was great to hold and felt really good in the hand. But I moved on to a Lumia 920. Why? The camera was better. The screen was better. More RAM. Front facing camera. More storage. Faster processor. The downside is that I felt the device was too large. I would have loved a Lumia 920 in a Lumia 520 body.

Now, the same applies to the iOS ecosystem. The sales of smaller screen devices that would show that people prefer smaller screens is skewed because that's the only choice for iOS. I loved the design of the iPhone 4. I thought, and still do think, it's an excellent design and feels better in the hand than the iPhone 5. But I still like the iPhone 3G/3GS design better than that. But I can't choose the iPhone 3GS or the iPhone 4S. The iPhone 5 is the default choice simply because it is exponentially faster than either of those. You'd be completely dumb or just too poor to choose the 4S or 4 at this point.

Ideally, and this goes for all three device ecosystems, I should be able to pick a device that feels good in my hand without sacrificing anything. For instance, I'd love a larger iPhone, but only slightly larger. 4.3... 4.5 inches TOPS. If the iPhone goes overboard with screen size and releases a flagship device in 2014 at 4.7, 4.8 or 5 inches with no smaller equivalent, I'll give serious consideration to an alternative device at that point.

I also don't believe it's in Apple's best interest to chase the screen size slider. I don't believe that increasing the screen size is going to draw Android users away from the platform in significant enough numbers.

 

[Midwayman]

I also don't believe it's in Apple's best interest to chase the screen size slider. I don't believe that increasing the screen size is going to draw Android users away from the platform in significant enough numbers.

Maybe. You also have to consider how many people it will stop from leaving the iOS ecosystem. Purely anecdotal evidence seems to indicate that screen size is the biggest reason people switch from iOS to android. I know if apple made a phone closer to 5" I'd consider it, can't say the same of the current models.

 

[lopri]

I think there is a pretty sizable market of people that want a smaller powerful phone. Smaller phones fit more comfortably in pockets (not everyone wears loose clothing with giant pockets). Smaller size is also great for those that use their phones while working out, jogging. Easier for single handed use (you can keep one hand on the steering wheel while flying down the highway and tweet out messages about how much the traffic sucks).

That's what I thought and still do to some extent, but look how HTC First fared. When I visited a local AT&T store with my friends who were up for upgrades, they did not care one bit on that phone despite it being "free".

I myself value the advantage of one-handed operation, but given chances, I am not sure if I would pick a solid mid-sized phone over shiny flagships that are larger. It's a tough call.

I am looking forward to seeing what Moto X will turn out to be.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Who decided 4 inches is the threshold for one handed?

I use my S4 one handed all the time. Its the perfect size for me to do that and I am 5'9".