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Goin' green... any MATX case advice?

OptimisTech

OptimisTech

Senior member
I have decided my current rig is a little over-powered for my needs so I am going to trim it down to a smaller and more efficient MATX design. If my math is right, I may lower my electric bill by $25-$40mo.

The trouble is I can't find a MATX case that is exactly what I'm looking for. The closest I have found is the NSK3480 from Antec. I prefer the small tower to the "cube" stuff because it seems like it offers far more options for heatsinks. From what I have read the PSU in this is actually OK for a small system. I am planning to have a G45 MB, E8400, 2x HDD, 1x DVDRW system. I will probably have some sort of mid-level video card like a 9600gt or maybe a HD4850 if a feel punchy. I am not a big gamer at all, but I do like the option occasionally.

My question is, has anyone used a MATX case that they would recommend? The Antec is almost perfect, but the hard drive placement is less then optimal and seems to make the drive run a little warm. Especially since I am planning to use two. My main concerns are noise and airflow. I would also rather have no PSU then a junky one.
 
I really like the NSK4480; I've built about 30 systems with it. Compared to the NSK3480, it has the same Earthwatts 380W psu, better cooling (especially for multiple hard drive configs), & is easier to work in because it's slightly larger (16.6? x 7.8? x 16.5? vs. 14" x 7.8" x 13.8"), & imho has a better layout. Note that Newegg's current price of $60 after a $40 rebate (Antec rebates take a full three months) is expensive; you should be able to get one for less than $50 shipped if you look/wait.
 
OMFG I had a lengthy reply and accidentally closed out the window (CTRL-F4) when I thought I had another window highlighted. Shit!

Not going to type it all up again but I'll give the cliffs:

Energy efficiency doesn't have much to do with physical size of computer. Don't expect actual dollar savings to be as high as you list.

Consider Hybrid SLI, or rather a subset of it, HybridPower. Currently only on AMD platforms and with certain NVIDIA chipset boards and certain GeForce 9xxx series video cards. HybridPower basically SHUTS OFF your video card when you aren't gaming. Coupled with a low power dual core AMD chip, you can have a system that idles at 50W and stays under 100W if you aren't gaming.

Lowest end video card that supports this technology is the GeForce 9800 GT, however not all of them do. The BFG 9800 GT and the OC model (but not OC+) support this. EVGA also has one model (out of five billion they offer) that support this. I suggest reading the manufacturer's product pages carefully to find a supported card.

Alright, this is about 1/4 of what I had typed up earlier that I lost, but I don't even recall everything else I said.
 
Originally posted by: Zap
OMFG I had a lengthy reply and accidentally closed out the window (CTRL-F4) when I thought I had another window highlighted. Shit!

Not going to type it all up again but I'll give the cliffs:

Energy efficiency doesn't have much to do with physical size of computer. Don't expect actual dollar savings to be as high as you list.

Consider Hybrid SLI, or rather a subset of it, HybridPower. Currently only on AMD platforms and with certain NVIDIA chipset boards and certain GeForce 9xxx series video cards. HybridPower basically SHUTS OFF your video card when you aren't gaming. Coupled with a low power dual core AMD chip, you can have a system that idles at 50W and stays under 100W if you aren't gaming.

Lowest end video card that supports this technology is the GeForce 9800 GT, however not all of them do. The BFG 9800 GT and the OC model (but not OC+) support this. EVGA also has one model (out of five billion they offer) that support this. I suggest reading the manufacturer's product pages carefully to find a supported card.

Alright, this is about 1/4 of what I had typed up earlier that I lost, but I don't even recall everything else I said.
Click to expand...

Well thank you very much, now I'm back to square one!!! ;-)

I haven't built an AMD system in a while and hadn't been keeping up with the tech. That seems like a very cool idea. A 9800gt is a little higher then I was planning to go, but if it can be switched off on the fly it might not be so bad. Any MB recommendations? I'd still like to go MATX. The case size is about efficient cooling and wasted space mostly. Less air volume=fewer fans=less noise/power. Plus it saves a little space. The part I left out is that I am also moving to a smaller desk which will be in my bedroom. Hence the noise/size concerns.
 
Since you ostensibly are doing this to be greener...

Find a used MATX chassis from one of the big OEMs like Dell, HP, or Gateway that accept standard ATX PSU and MATX boards, especially the ones used for media center SKUs. Gut it, install your preferred PSU and other components. The big OEMs use great cases and there are plenty of them out there collecting dust or going into land fills.

OEM/ODM chassis designers actually put some thought into their chassis insofar as air flow and cooling. DIY aftermarket cases are notorious for thoughtless air flow considerations. e.g. design philosophy = stuff a bunch of 6,000 RPM fans in there. :roll:

Edit: watch out for the BTX cases, though. A number of OEMs used them for a time.
 
Did you look at the SG03? Not sure if its what you are looking for but its a mATX tower. I have one and love it. Its pretty popular with the SFF crowd. Like all SFF cases though your hsf choices are limited.
 
Originally posted by: OptimisTech
I haven't built an AMD system in a while and hadn't been keeping up with the tech. That seems like a very cool idea. A 9800gt is a little higher then I was planning to go, but if it can be switched off on the fly it might not be so bad. Any MB recommendations?
Click to expand...

Go with a GeForce 8200 or GeForce 8300 chipset mATX board.

Now, I did some research earlier today (HybridPower is of interest to me personally) and seems as if the technology works... if you get the right combination. IMO it isn't ready for prime time.

Some motherboard manufacturers (and video card manufacturers) didn't really pay attention to making their stuff compatible, plus some don't work as well. For instance most people with GTX 260 and GTX 280 (which are supposed to support HybridPower) say that they barely get any savings whatsoever, saving only a couple watts over not having HybridPower at all and. People using 9800 GTX seem to be doing much better, barely using a couple watts more than not having the video card at all. For instance, if a system idles at 70W with integrated graphics and idles at 160W with a GTX 260, a GTX 260 with HybridPower enabled may idle at 150W, barely any savings. On the other hand, a 9800 GTX may idle at 140W, but using HybridPower may idle at 75W, a huge difference and almost-but-not-quite as good as not having a dedicated video card at all.

Besides choosing the right motherboard chipset and GPU, you also have to hope that the motherboard BIOS has HybridPower support, as some do not. Finally, you need driver support, and some people have voiced frustrations that they couldn't get it to work. However, when it works it works well enough.

So, here are the pros of HybridPower:
Saves energy
reduces heat output
lowers noise output (video card fan shuts off even)

There are some cons... I'll leave out the "doesn't always work" part:
There is a performance hit averaging 5% (frame buffer needs to be copied to IGP memory)
Sometimes random performance hits much greater than 5%
You need to manually switch modes (taskbar icon)
When switching modes, can take a few seconds (5-20 depending)
Unable to switch modes if anything 3D running.
Limited to single display (through IGP)
Limited to AMD setups (GeForce 8X00 and NForce 7X0a chipsets)
Limited to single-link DVI (max 1920x1200 resolution)


*SIGH* I really was excited about this technology.

Anyways, if you don't want to pursue HybridPower (and I don't blame you) then you need to do this the old fashioned way.

1) Use a really low powered CPU and do not overclock. Good choices are slower 45nm Core 2 Duo (like E7200) or low power AMD 45W dual cores.

2) Use as low a video card as you can stomach. I hear the Radeon 4670 gives decent performance while still not needing extra PCIe power plugs.

3) Use as few fans as possible, as each fan can take a few watts. Low powered parts help in that they don't need extra cooling. Go passive when possible on the CPU (Scythe Ninja or Mini Ninja) and the video card (Arctic Cooling Accelero S2, or S1 for higher end cards).

4) Use as few HDDs and optical drives as possible. Each HDD can take 15-20W on spinup and 6-12W during normal operation. So, a single 1TB drive is better than two 500GB. Also, some HDDs use less power than others. Obviously there's the WD "Green" 5400RPM desktop terabyte drives, but I hear their "Black" 7200RPM terabyte drive is really thrifty while performing well.

5) Choose a really efficient PSU that is barely enough to cover your power needs. Let's say you go with an E7200 and 9600GT with one HDD. You'll probably need around 15-18A of good quality +12v power, with overall PSU capacity of around 300W give or take. Just choose an 80+ PSU that is barely that size. The reason is usually (though not always) a 300W power supply is more efficient at 200W output than a 700W power supply at 200W output. That's the gist of it.
 
i have an antec nsk3480.

unless you HAVE to use that last slot on your computer the lower hard drive bay is fine. but i think it'd be fine. if you just want to use less power just use any case with a true 80 power supply.

its a very good case. the only minor bad thing about it is it doesnt have air filters so all the intakes will get dusty. its the only case in the antec solutions line that has rubber shock absorbers on the hard drives too so its very quiet and the metal is thicker than the nsk4480 so its much sturdier feeling (nsk4480 sucks by the way... no front mount audio, cheap feeling metal etc... just a crappy case compared to the 3480, though i've had a nsk6500 and nsk4480 and i'd say that with that experience the NSK line's ATX cases are mediocre, the micro ATX cases are good though)

the nsk3480 comes with a 380 watt true 80 power supply. I have noticed that its slightly noisier power supply than the 500 watt true 80 that came with my sonata 3.

but its still very very quiet.
 
I've never heard of HybridPower until now, it's technology I've been waiting for, although it doesn't sound mature enough for me to buy into it yet, but it's a step in the right direction. For a while I've been trying to use separate desktops, one for gaming and one for web browsing. I've had thin clients, gone through an EEE PC, now have an Acer Aspire One, but it's kind of a PITA switching between different machines.

Hopefully in the near future we'll see something like graphics cards with a low power core for 2D applications and a 3D core that can be shut off at will. I'd also like to see CPU manufacturers allow more flexible low power states, I liked that my 754 chips were able to drop to a 5x multiplier and 0.8v. And now that we've already reached 45nm, and soon to be 32nm, we should be allowed to go even lower, but it seems like AMD and Intel aren't interested anymore. Isn't Nehalem supposed to be able to fully disable a core when not in use though? That combined with more user control over clockspeed and voltage adjustments like in the 754 days would make me happy.

But anyways, to the OP, I don't really think there's any value in MATX towers as opposed to the cube style cases. I use an Antec SLK2650-BQE which is 16.5"x16.5", and MATX towers are generally no more than 2" shorter on either side. Hardly any space saved, but you lose 3 expansion slots and some drive bays. A cube case on the other hand can be about 3-4" wider, but a good 7-8" shorter in height, as well as shorter depth.

If you can give up a dual slot cooling solution for the video card a Shuttle XPC is the ultimate space saver. If you can live with onboard sound you might still be able to get a dual slot graphics card into a Shuttle, but you lose some versatility and have to pay a little more than if you were to go with a cube case.
 
i dont think your gonna save a lot of power on a MATX board vs regular ATX board.

Unless, the MATX has builtin Video, which then yeah, you'd probably save around 40-50W.

However the onboard video really makes a big difference.

Wanna go green? change platforms to mobile or EEE PC.
 
Originally posted by: aigomorla
However the onboard video really makes a big difference.

Wanna go green? change platforms to mobile or EEE PC.
Click to expand...

Thing is that he wants to be able to play an occasional game.
 
Take a look at the C-M Mystique 631 at SVC.com. It is a relatively compact full ATX case, but it's mostly aluminum, so it's fairly light. The things I'd really like to see in it is some rubber isolation for the HDDs and have it so the PSU can be removed without pulling the mobo too. I drilled the pop rivets out of the rail below the PSU on mine and replaced them with screws and nuts - problem solved. Other than that it's a nice box and will work with any mobo up to full ATX (except maybe some of the recent strange ones. Considering that they are currently at $75. off the original price, they're not too bad.

.bh.
 
Interesting thread since I am planning to build one from ground up. I think OS will matter too, since XP requires only about 300MHz CPU and 128MB of RAM, while Vista 64 requires like 1.0GHz and 1GB of RAM. Having both gives an option of running XP to surf web and working with office tools with minimal CPU and RAM use (XP won't recognize more than 4GB of RAM anyway), and when it's time to take advantage of 64-bit computing - you start up the Vista. In the long run it might make sense. It's kinda hassle of course, just like going green always seems to be.
 
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