God

[Cerpin Taxt]

Naturalistic Pantheism FTW

 

[SophalotJack]

Originally posted by: Moove
Do you think their is a real god or do you think some other higher intelligence created us?

do you think there is a myspace or do you think there is a xanga?

for real... do you just want attention? please stop reposting

 

[FirstAssembliesofGod]

I answer that it can be proved in five ways that God exists.

The first and plainest is the method that proceeds from the point of view of motion. It is certain and in accord with experience, that things on earth undergo change. Now, everything that is moved is moved by something; nothing, indeed, is changed, except it is changed to something which it is in potentiality. Moreover, anything moves in accordance with something actually existing; change itself, is nothing else than to bring forth something from potentiality into actuality. Now, nothing can be brought from potentiality to actual existence except through something actually existing: thus heat in action, as fire, makes fire-wood, which is hot in potentiality, to be hot actually, and through this process, changes itself. The same thing cannot at the same time be actually and potentially the same thing, but only in regard to different things. What is actually hot cannot be at the same time potentially hot, but it is possible for it at the same time to be potentially cold. It is impossible, then, that anything should be both mover and the thing moved, in regard to the same thing and in the same way, or that it should move itself. Everything, therefore, is moved by something else. If, then, that by which it is moved, is also moved, this must be moved by something still different, and this, again, by something else. But this process cannot go on to infinity because there would not be any first mover, nor, because of this fact, anything else in motion, as the succeeding things would not move except because of what is moved by the first mover, just as a stick is not moved except through what is moved from the hand. Therefore it is necessary to go back to some first mover, which is itself moved by nothing---and this all men know as God.

The second proof is from the nature of the efficient cause. We find in our experience that there is a chain of causes: nor is it found possible for anything to be the efficient cause of itself, since it would have to exist before itself, which is impossible. Nor in the case of efficient causes can the chain go back indefinitely, because in all chains of efficient causes, the first is the cause of the middle, and these of the last, whether they be one or many. If the cause is removed, the effect is removed. Hence if there is not a first cause, there will not be a last, nor a middle. But if the chain were to go back infinitely, there would be no first cause, and thus no ultimate effect, nor middle causes, which is admittedly false. Hence we must presuppose some first efficient cause---which all call God.

The third proof is taken from the natures of the merely possible and necessary. We find that certain things either may or may not exist, since they are found to come into being and be destroyed, and in consequence potentially, either existent or non-existent. But it is impossible for all things that are of this character to exist eternally, because what may not exist, at length will not. If, then, all things were merely possible (mere accidents), eventually nothing among things would exist. If this is true, even now there would be nothing, because what does not exist, does not take its beginning except through something that does exist. If then nothing existed, it would be impossible for anything to begin, and there would now be nothing existing, which is admittedly false. Hence not all things are mere accidents, but there must be one necessarily existing being. Now every necessary thing either has a cause of its necessary existence, or has not. In the case of necessary things that have a cause for their necessary existence, the chain of causes cannot go back infinitely, just as not in the case of efficient causes, as proved. Hence there must be presupposed something necessarily existing through its own nature, not having a cause elsewhere but being itself the cause of the necessary existence of other things---which all call God.

The fourth proof arises from the degrees that are found in things. For there is found a greater and a less degree of goodness, truth, nobility, and the like. But more or less are terms spoken of various things as they approach in diverse ways toward something that is the greatest, just as in the case of hotter (more hot) which approaches nearer the greatest heat. There exists therefore something that is the truest, and best, and most noble, and in consequence, the greatest being. For what are the greatest truths are the greatest beings, as is said in the Metaphysics Bk. II. 2. What moreover is the greatest in its way, in another way is the cause of all things of its own kind (or genus); thus fire, which is the greatest heat, is the cause of all heat, as is said in the same book (cf. Plato and Aristotle). Therefore there exists something that is the cause of the existence of all things and of the goodness and of every perfection whatsoever---and this we call God.

The fifth proof arises from the ordering of things for we see that some things which lack reason, such as natural bodies, are operated in accordance with a plan. It appears from this that they are operated always or the more frequently in this same way the closer they follow what is the Highest; whence it is clear that they do not arrive at the result by chance but because of a purpose. The things, moreover, that do not have intelligence do not tend toward a result unless directed by some one knowing and intelligent; just as an arrow is sent by an archer. Therefore there is something intelligent by which all natural things are arranged in accordance with a plan---and this we call God.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Over Three Hundred Proofs of God?s Existence

TRANSCENDENTAL ARGUMENT, a.k.a. PRESUPPOSITIONALIST (I)
(1) If reason exists then God exists.
(2) Reason exists.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

COSMOLOGICAL ARGUMENT
(1) If I say something must have a cause, it has a cause.
(2) I say the universe must have a cause.
(3) Therefore, the universe has a cause.
(4) Therefore, God exists.

ONTOLOGICAL ARGUMENT (I)
(1) I define God to be X.
(2) Since I can conceive of X, X must exist.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ONTOLOGICAL ARGUMENT (II)
(1) I can conceive of a perfect God.
(2) One of the qualities of perfection is existence.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

MODAL ONTOLOGICAL ARGUMENT
(1) God is either necessary or unnecessary.
(2) God is not unnecessary, therefore God must be necessary.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

TELEOLOGICAL ARGUMENT (I)
(1) Check out the world/universe/giraffe. Isn't it complex?
(2) Only God could have made them so complex.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM BEAUTY, a.k.a. TELEOLOGICAL ARGUMENT (II)
(1) Isn't that baby/sunset/flower/tree beautiful?
(2) Only God could have made them so beautiful.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM MIRACLES
(1) My aunt had cancer.
(2) The doctors gave her all these horrible treatments.
(3) My aunt prayed to God and now she doesn't have cancer.
(4) Therefore, God exists.

MORAL ARGUMENT (I)
(1) Person X, a well-known Atheist, was morally inferior to the rest of us.
(2) Therefore, God exists.

MORAL ARGUMENT (II)
(1) In my younger days I was a cursing, drinking, smoking, gambling, child-molesting, thieving, murdering, bed-wetting bastard.
(2) That all changed once I became religious.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM CREATION, a.k.a. ARGUMENT FROM PERSONAL INCREDULITY (I)
(1) If evolution is false, then creationism is true, and therefore God exists.
(2) Evolution can't be true, since I lack the mental capacity to understand it; moreover, to accept its truth would cause me to be uncomfortable.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM FEAR
(1) If there is no God then we're all going to die.
(2) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM THE BIBLE
(1) [arbitrary passage from OT]
(2) [arbitrary passage from NT]
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM INTELLIGENCE
(1) Look, there's really no point in me trying to explain the whole thing to you stupid Atheists ? it's too complicated for you to understand. God exists whether you like it or not.
(2) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM UNINTELLIGENCE
(1) Okay, I don't pretend to be as intelligent as you guys ? you're obviously very well read. But I read the Bible, and nothing you say can convince me that God does not exist. I feel him in my heart, and you can feel him too, if you'll just ask him into your life. "For God so loved the world that he sent his only begotten son into the world, that whosoever believes in him shall not perish from the earth." John 3:16.
(2) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM BELIEF
(1) If God exists, then I should believe in Him.
(2) I believe in God.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM INTIMIDATION
(1) See this bonfire?
(2) Therefore, God exists.

PARENTAL ARGUMENT
(1) My mommy and daddy told me that God exists.
(2) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM NUMBERS
(1) Millions and millions of people believe in God.
(2) They can't all be wrong, can they?
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM ABSURDITY
(1) Maranathra!
(2) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM ECONOMY
(1) God exists, you bastards!
(2) Therefore, God exists.

BOATWRIGHT'S ARGUMENT
(1) Ha ha ha.
(2) Therefore, God exists.

DORE'S ARGUMENT
(1) I forgot to take my meds.
(2) Therefore, I AM CHRIST!!
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM GUITAR MASTERY
(1) Eric Clapton is God.
(2) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM INTERNET AUTHORITY
(1) There is a website that successfully argues for the existence of God.
(2) Here is the URL.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM INCOMPREHENSIBILITY
(1) Flabble glurk zoom boink blubba snurgleschnortz ping!
(2) No one has ever refuted (1).
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM AMERICAN EVANGELISM
(1) Telling people that God exists makes me filthy rich.
(2) Therefore, God exists.

MITCHELL'S ARGUMENT
(1) The Christian God exists.
(2) Therefore, all worldviews which don't assume the Christian God's existence are false and incomprehensible.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM BLINDNESS (I)
(1) Atheists are spiritually blind.
(2) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM BLINDNESS (II)
(1) God is love.
(2) Love is blind.
(3) Stevie Wonder is blind.
(4) Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.
(5) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM FALLIBILITY
(1) Human reasoning is inherently flawed.
(2) Therefore, there is no reasonable way to challenge a proposition.
(3) I propose that God exists.
(4) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM SMUGNESS
(1) God exists.
(2) I don't give a crap whether you believe it or not; I have better things to do than to try to convince you morons.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM META-SMUGNESS
(1) ****** you.
(2) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM MANIFESTATIONS
(1) If you turn your head sideways and squint a little, you can see an image of a bearded face in that tortilla.
(2) Therefore, God exists.

SLATHER'S ARGUMENT
(1) My toaster is God.
(2) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM INCOMPLETE DEVASTATION
(1) A plane crashed killing 143 passengers and crew.
(2) But one child survived with only third-degree burns.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM POSSIBLE WORLDS
(1) If things had been different, then things would be different.
(2) That would be bad.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM SHEER WILL
(1) I DO believe in God! I DO believe in God! I do I do I do I DO believe in God!
(2) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM NONBELIEF
(1) The majority of the world's population are nonbelievers in Christianity.
(2) This is just what Satan intended.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM POST-DEATH EXPERIENCE
(1) Person X died an Atheist.
(2) He now realizes his mistake.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM EMOTIONAL BLACKMAIL
(1) God loves you.
(2) How could you be so heartless to not believe in him?
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM SACRIFICIAL BLACKMAIL
(1) Jesus died for your sins.
(2) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM INCOHERENT BABBLE
(1) See that person spazzing on the church floor babbling incoherently?
(2) That's how infinite wisdom reveals itself.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

OPRAH'S ARGUMENT (I)
(1) The human spirit exists.
(2) Therefore, God exists.

OPRAH'S ARGUMENT (II)
(1) Check out this video segment.
(2) Now how can anyone watch that and NOT believe in God?
(3) Therefore, God exists.

CALVINIST ARGUMENT, a.k.a. TERTULLIAN'S ARGUMENT
(1) If God exists, then he will let me watch you be tortured forever.
(2) I rather like that idea.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM CROCKERY
(1) Pots don't go around giving orders to the potter.
(2) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM MASS PRODUCTION
(1) Barbie dolls were created.
(2) If Barbie dolls were created, then so were trees.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM PAROCHIALISM
(1) God is everywhere.
(2) We haven't been everywhere to prove he's not there.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM UPPERCASE ASSERTION
(1) GOD EXISTS! GET USED TO IT!
(2) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM INFINITE REGRESS
(1) Ask Atheists what caused the Big Bang.
(2) Regardless of their answer, ask how they know this.
(3) Continue process until the Atheist admits he doesn't know the answer to one of your questions.
(4) You win!
(5) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM INCREDULITY
(1) How could God NOT exist, you bozo?
(2) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM HISTORY
(1) The Bible is true.
(2) Therefore, the Bible is historical fact.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM RESURRECTION
(1) Proof of God's existence will be available when you rise bodily from your grave.
(2) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM BIOGENESIS
(1) Where did Adam come from, dummy?
(2) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM STEADFAST FAITH
(1) A lot of really cool people believed in God their entire lives.
(2) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM LONELINESS
(1) Christians say that Jesus is their best friend.
(2) I'm lonely, and I want a best friend.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM ARGUMENTATION
(1) God exists.
(2) [Atheist's counterargument]
(3) Yes he does.
(4) [Atheist's counterargument]
(5) Yes he does!
(6) [Atheist's counterargument]
(7) YES HE DOES!!!
(8) [Atheist gives up and goes home.]
(9) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM CREATIVE INTERPRETATION
(1) God is:
(a) The feeling you have when you look at a newborn baby.
(b) The love of a mother for her child.
(c) That little still voice in your heart.
(d) Humankind's potential to overcome their difficulties.
(e) How I feel when I look at a sunset.
(f) The taste of ice cream on a hot day.
(2) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM INSECURITY
(1) We have gone to absolutely berserk lengths to establish that Atheists are laughable morons.
(1.5) Actually, we did so in the hopes of curing our own insecurities about theism ? but there's no chance in hell we'll ever admit that.
(2) Therefore, Atheists are laughable morons.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM SUPERIORITY
(1) If God does not exist, then I am an inferior being, since I am not "special" in a cosmic sense.
(2) But I am superior because I am a Christian.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM PERFECTION
(1) If there are absolute moral standards, then God exists.
(2) Atheists say that there are no absolute moral standards.
(3) But that's because they don't want to admit to being sinners.
(4) Therefore, there are absolute moral standards.
(5) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM HUMAN NECESSITY
(1) Atheists say that they don't need God.
(2) Which just goes to show that they need God.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM HIDDEN LOGIC (I)
(1) Intellectually, I know that the existence of God is impossible, or vastly improbable.
(2) But I must put on the appearance of being cool and intellectual in front of my Christian apologist peers.
(3) Therefore, I must pretend that (1) is false.
(4) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM HIDDEN LOGIC (II)
(1) Atheists say that God doesn't exist.
(2) But they only say that because they want to look cool and intellectual in front of their peers.
(3) They don't fool me!
(4) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM INDULGENCE
(1) Atheists like to think that they can control their emotional desires.
(2) But they're Atheists, so they can't.
(3) Therefore, Atheists feel the need to indulge in whatever they feel like without worrying about committing sin.
(4) This just goes to show how they need God in their lives.
(5) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM HATE
(1) Some Atheists hate Christians and Christianity.
(2) That's why they don't believe in God.
(3) Pathetic, aren't they?
(4) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM QUENTIN SMITH
(1) Quentin Smith says that God does not exist.
(2) But God does exist.
(3) Therefore, Quentin Smith cannot be accepted as an expert on the matter, because he is wrong.
(4) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM EVIL SPIRITS
(1) I've just had contact with evil spirits.
(2) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM KENT HOVIND
(1) I don't want to work for a living.
(2) I don't want to pay taxes.
(3) I can get gullible fundamentalists to send me money.
(4) I can use religious exemption claims to tie the IRS up in court.
(5) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM KENT HOVIND'S CHALLENGE
(1) Kent Hovind offers $250,000 (which may or may not exist) to anyone who can demonstrate evolution (defined as a natural, acausal origin of the universe) to a reasonable doubt (meaning with 100% certainty, allowing for no other possibilities whatsoever) in front of a neutral committee (handpicked by Hovind himself) and according to certain criteria (carefully worded so as to rule out any possibility whatsoever of the challenge ever being met).
(2) No Atheist has ever met this challenge.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM INSANITY
(1) No sane person could have thought up Christianity.
(2) Therefore, it must be true
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM EXHAUSTION (abridged)
(1) Do you agree with the utterly trivial proposition X?
(2) Atheist: of course.
(3) How about the slightly modified proposition X'?
(4) Atheist: Um, no, not really.
(5) Good. Since we agree, how about Y? Is that true?
(6) Atheist: No! And I didn't agree with X'!
(7) With the truths of these clearly established, surely you agree that Z is true as well?
(8) Atheist: No. So far I have only agreed with X! Where is this going, anyway?
(9) I'm glad we all agree.....
....
(37) So now we have used propositions X, X', Y, Y', Z, Z', P, P', Q and Q' to arrive at the obviously valid point R. Agreed?
(38) Atheist: Like I said, so far I've only agreed with X. Where is this going?
....
(81) So we now conclude from this that propositions L'', L''' and J'' are true. Agreed?
(82) I HAVEN'T AGREED WITH ANYTHING YOU'VE SAID SINCE X! WHERE IS THIS GOING?
....
(177) ...and it follows that proposition HRV, SHQ'' and BTU' are all obviously valid. Agreed?
(178) [Atheist either faints from overwork or leaves in disgust.]
(179) Therefore, God exists.

MR. GOODSALT'S ARGUMENT (ARGUMENT FROM GENERAL INQUIRY)
(1) Question for Atheist population: [apparently random question]
(2) Your answer is wrong.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

PEACOCK ARGUMENT FROM ORIGINALITY
(1) I have written the following to demonstrate the existence of God.
(2) [insert entire text of a William Lane Craig article]
(3) Therefore, God exists.

PEACOCK ARGUMENT FROM LIMITED VOCABULARY
(1) You use lots of big words.
(2) Therefore, I cannot possibly be expected to understand your refutation of my position.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

PEACOCK ARGUMENT FROM SELECTIVE MEMORY
(1) [Christian asks "stumper" question.]
(2) [Atheist answers question.]
(3) [A lapse of time]
(4) [Christian repeats question.]
(5) [Atheist repeats answer.]
(6) [A lapse of time]
(7) [Christian repeats question.]
(8) [Atheist repeats answer.]
(9) [A lapse of time]
(10) Atheist, you never answered my question.
(11) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM DIVINE ECONOMICS
(1) Protestant Christian nations are rich.
(2) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM PERSONAL SANITY
(1) I've had religious experiences that can't be explained unless I'm insane or God exists.
(2) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM INSTITUTIONAL LONGETIVITY
(1) The Roman Catholic Church has been around for a long time.
(2) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM INEVITABILITY
(1) I have proof that God exists.
(2) I won't bother to tell you what it is because, being Atheists, you would be hostile to the conclusion anyway.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM "THE MATRIX"
(1) We cannot prove that we don't live in a Matrix-like world.
(2) Therefore we cannot know reality.
(3) If reality is contingent, then everything is possible.
(4) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM SUBJECTIVITY
(1) Everything is subjective.
(2) No subjective proof can be superior to any other subjective proof.
(3) Based upon my subjective opinion, your opinion, that if everything is subjective then, perforce, God is subjective, is false.
(4) Therefore, God (objectively) exists.

ARGUMENT FROM POSTMODERNISM
(1) I'm going to prove to you that God exists.
(2) [Insert any of the other arguments on this page in here.]
(3) [Atheist refutes argument.]
(4) I cannot prove there is a God any more than anyone of us can prove we really exist in a tangible world.
(5) Therefore, God exists.

META-PROOF
(1) This is a proof of God's existence.
(2) If the reader finishes reading this proof, the existence of God will be proven to him/her.
(3) If the existence of God is proven, then God exists.
(4) Therefore, God exists.

PROOF BY ANECDOTE
(1) God can be seen by those who believe in Him.
(2) If the God is seen, then He must exist.
(3) I have seen God.
(4) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM BIBLICAL HISTORY
(1) Many modern historians think that there probably was somebody named Jesus, maybe.
(2) Therefore, God exists.

BENDER?S ARGUMENT (I)
(1) One day, demons were tap-dancing on my roof. I prayed and they went away.
(2) Therefore, demons are really good dancers.
(3) Also, God exists.

BENDER?S ARGUMENT (II) (ARGUMENT FROM DAVID BLAINE)
(1) If David Blaine does real magic, then God exists.
(2) It looked real on his TV special.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

RANDMAN?S ARGUMENT
(1) This entry from the 1975 World Book Encyclopedia on evolution contains some errors that I claim to have already substantiated.
(2) Mr. Ph.D.-in-Evolutionary-Biology, this proves that evolution is an unsound scientific concept.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM MULTIPLICITY (I), a.k.a. METACROCK'S ARGUMENT
(1) I have a large number of arguments for God.
(2) One of them is probably true.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM FORTUITOUS COINCIDENCE
(1) What are the odds of that happening?
(2) Pretty long, I?ll bet.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM MYSTERIOUS USE OF PREPOSITIONS
(1) It is impossible to disprove God with your puny human intellect unless you are above God.
(2) Are you higher than God?
(3) I?ll take that puzzled look on your face as a no.
(4) Therefore, God (being the highest thing ever) exists.

ARGUMENT FROM TEEN CHRISTIAN MOVEMENT
(1) God is so totally awesome, dude, and if you would pretend that Creed and POD were good bands, you would realize that.
(2) Also, our Youth Group leader Skip once, like, cured a broken leg using only the power of the almighty Lord.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM SPEAKING IN TOUNGES
(1) My friend here, once started spontaneously speaking some jibberish that sounded to me kind of like Russian.
(2) But neither he nor I know anything about Russian.
(3) The only explanation is God.
(4) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM EUROPEAN HISTORY
(1) Many prominent thinkers in pre-modern Europe believed in God.
(2) Let?s just forget about the nineteenth and twentieth centuries.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM DESIGN (I), a.k.a. PALEY'S ARGUMENT, a.k.a. TELEOLOGICAL ARGUMENT (III)
(1) If there is a designer, then God must exist.
(2) If I find a watch in a forest, there must be a designer.
(3) [Throws watch into forest.]
(4) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM DESIGN (II), a.k.a. GOD OF THE GAPS, a.k.a. ARGUMENT FROM PERSONAL INCREDULITY (II), a.k.a. TELEOLOGICAL ARGUMENT (IV)
(1) Isn't X amazing!
(2) I don't understand how X could be, without something else (that I don't really understand either) making or doing X.
(3) This something else must be God because I can't come up with a better explanation.
(4) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM OFFENSE
(1) God exists.
(2) [Atheist makes counterarguments.]
(3) You know what? I am offended.
(4) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM PRAYER
(1) God exists.
(2) [Atheist makes counterarguments.]
(3) You have my prayers.

ARGUMENT FROM AGNOSTICISM
(1) I don't know and you don't know either.
(2) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM LOVE
(1) Have you ever fallen in love?
(2) [Of course!!]
(3) So what is the cause of love? Isn't it God? Am I right or not?
(4) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM IDENTITY (PC ARGUMENT)
(1) Believing in God is a central part of my identity.
(2) You don't mean to deny my identity do you?
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM FORMATTING
(1) Behold, foolish Atheists, I present you with an incontrovertible proof of the existence of God.
(2) [Christian posts 10,000 word document without a single paragraph break.]
(3) [Atheists' eyes implode.]
(4) I see that nobody can refute (2).
(5) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM NON-CONFRONTATION
(1) I am not here to argue with you Atheists.
(2) But come on, God obviously exists.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM EXODUS
(1) If the Exodus story has any basis in historical fact, then God exists.
(2) Some guy found some chariot wheels at the bottom of the Red Sea.
(3) There is absolutely no other way that chariots could get to the bottom of the Red Sea.
(4) This means the Exodus story is true.
(5) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM MARTYRDOM
(1) The apostles would not have died for something they knew wasn't true.
(2) Atheist gives examples of martyrs outside Christendom.
(3) Obviously those examples were fooled by Satan.
(4) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM TINKERBELL
(1) I really want God to be real.
(2) If you wish for something really hard, it'll come true.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM LACK OF DISPROOF
(1) You can't prove God doesn't exist!
(2) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM ANECDOTAL EXPERIENCE (I)
(1) I once experienced something I can't explain.
(2) [Atheists offer several possible, natural explanations.]
(3) You're just guessing! I was there.
(4) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM ANECDOTAL EXPERIENCE (II)
(1) I have experienced feelings of God's presence in my mind.
(2) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM NEUROSCIENCE
(1) Scientists say a portion of our brain may be responsible for mystical experiences.
(2) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM EYEWITNESS (sometimes follows or combined with Lack of Eyewitness I)
(1) Someone wrote the creation story in the Bible.
(2) That someone must have been an eyewitness to the described events.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM LACK OF EYEWITNESS (I)
(1) You weren't there to witness abiogenisis/Big Bang/etc.
(2) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM LACK OF EYEWITNESS (II)
(1) No one's ever seen one species turn into another.
(2) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM HALF A WING
(1) Half of a wing is useless!
(2) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM PREFERRED ANCESTRY
(1) I don't want to be related to monkeys.
(2) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM FOOLISHNESS
(1) The Bible says Atheists are fools.
(2) I don't want to be a fool.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM PIG'S TEETH
(1) Some scientists once thought a tooth was from an "ape-man."
(2) Later scientists discovered it was a pig's tooth.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM PERSECUTION (I)
(1) Someone made fun of my faith.
(2) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM PERSECUTION (II)
(1) Jesus said that people would make fun of Christians.
(2) I am an idiot.
(3) People often point that out.
(4) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM PERSECUTION (III)
(1) You Atheists are mean!
(2) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM JESUS SAID STUFF
(1) Jesus said some really cool stuff.
(2) No one else had said that stuff.
(2) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM DIFFERENCES
(1) The Christian God is different than the gods of other religions.
(2) Therefore, the Christian God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM CHRISTIAN MORALITY (although it could probably be adapted to just about any religion)
(1) Somewhere, someone who called himself or herself a Christian did something nice.
(2) This person was probably not lying.
(3) Therefore, this person was a Christian.
(4) Therefore, Christians do nice things.
(5) Therefore, Christians are moral.
(6) Christians believe in the Bible.
(7) Therefore, the Bible is moral.
(8) The Bible is God's word. It says so.
(9) Therefore, God is moral.
(10) (We are just ignoring all the not-nice things that Christians may or may not have done in the past, it's hard to trust history anyway, there are enemies of God working everywhere).
(11) A moral God would be really nice.
(12) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM CRAZINESS, a.k.a. PERCHANCE'S SISTER'S ARGUMENT (I)
(1) I would go crazy if I didn't believe in God.
(2) I am not crazy.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM CHOCOLATE, a.k.a. MRS. POPE'S PROOF
(1) Chocolate is God's gift to humanity.
(2) Therefore, God exists.
(3) Now class, would anyone like to attempt an Argument From Beer?

ARGUMENT FROM WWJD
(1) I have the ?What Would Jesus Do?? T-shirt, bracelet, baseball hat, and shoelaces.
(2) I wear them in public.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM INTEREST
(1) If God really doesn?t exist than Atheists wouldn?t spend so much time talking about him.
(2) [Atheist refutes (1).]
(3) Therefore, God exists.

REID?S ARGUMENT
(1) You assume that your senses are reliable even though you can?t prove it.
(2) That means I get to assume anything I want.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM INTELLECTUAL SUPERIORITY
(1) [Christian posts argument.]
(2) [Atheist refutes argument.]
(3) Atheist, you obviously didn?t understand my argument.
(4) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM CATCH-PHRASE
(1) There are no Atheists in foxholes.
(2) [Atheist points out Atheists in foxholes.]
(3) They don?t count.
(4) Therefore, God exists.

TERCEL?S ARGUMENT (ARGUMENT FROM PROBABILITY)
(1) We should believe what probably is true.
(2) I have arbitrarily assigned the proposition ?God exists? a probability of 0.75.
(3) That probability came from my ass, which I know assigns extremely accurate probabilities to propositions concerning the existence of God.
(4) So God probably exists.
(5) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM FREE GIFT, a.k.a. Kissing Hank's Ass
(1) If some guy came up to you on the street and offered you a billion dollars for nothing in return, would you take the money or deny his existence?
(2) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM CHARITY
(1) Atheists don?t build hospitals.
(2) [Atheist points out Bill Gates and Ted Turner, who donate millions of dollars to charity.]
(3) Yes, but do they build hospitals?
(4) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM SERIOUS ASSERTION
(1) God exists.
(2) No, seriously.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM POSITIVE OUTCOME
(1) Even if God doesn?t exist, it would be better if people believed He did.
(2) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM LACK OF EVIDENCE (I)
(1) I believe that if God exists, there will be no evidence for his existence.
(2) There is no evidence for the existence of God.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM LACK OF EVIDENCE (II) (MODIFIED SIMPSON?S ARGUMENT)
(1) God, if you exist, please give me absolutely no sign.
(2)
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM IDIOCY
(1) I am an idiot.
(2) Even an idiot can see that God exists.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM TERRORISM (I)
(1) Terrorists destroyed the WTC, killing thousands.
(2) One piece of the rubble sort of looks like a cross.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM TERRORISM (II)
(1) A plane was hijacked by terrorists.
(2) The passengers prayed and attacked the terrorists.
(3) The plane crashed into a field, killing all aboard.
(4) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM TERRORISM (III), a.k.a. PERCHANCE'S SISTER'S ARGUMENT (II)
(1) September 11th was really, really bad.
(2) We have bad things happen to us when we're doing something bad.
(3) Therefore, September 11th was a punishment for something we did.
(4) Maybe it was being arrogant?
(5) Yeah, that's it!
(6) God let September 11th happen to teach America humility.
(7) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM MASS MURDER
(1) Stalin was an Atheist.
(2) He murdered millions of people.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM TORNADOS
(1) A large tornado hit Kansas City.
(2) The tornado missed a church but destroyed several hundred homes.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM SPAGHETTI
(1) A few people saw something weird in a bowl of spaghetti.
(2) Some Catholics believe that it is the Virgin Mary.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM MONEY
(1) All U.S. currency contains the motto "In God We Trust."
(2) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE (I)
(1) The Pledge clearly states that America is "one nation, under God * * *."
(2) The existence of God is thus a necessary condition for the existence of America.
(3) America exists.
(4) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM THE FOUNDING FATHERS (I)
(1) Some of America's Founding Fathers wrote favorably about the Bible.
(2) The Founding Fathers were really, really smart.
(3) Accordingly, the Bible must be true.
(4) The Bible says that God exists.
(5) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM THE FOUNDING FATHERS (II)
(1) The Declaration of Independence includes the words "God" and "Creator".
(2) Only a Christian would include the words "God" and "Creator"!
(3) Therefore this is a Christian Nation.
(4) A Christian Nation couldn't last over 200 years without God's help.
(5) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM THE FALL OF PAGAN ROME
(1) When Jesus was crucified, the Roman Empire was pagan, ruled by a pagan Emperor.
(2) A couple of hundred years later, lots of Romans were Christians, and the Emperor was a Christian too!
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM LOTS OF BOOKS
(1) The Bible has lots of books written by lots of authors over a long period of time.
(2) Through centuries of vigorous apologetics we've been able to forge a more or less coherent plot for the whole Bible.
(3) It is beyond human ability for so many authors over so long a time to write so many books from which we could hammer such a plot.
(4) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM UNLIKE OTHER RELIGIONS (I) (argument from sacrifice)
(1) The Bible said Jesus died for our sins.
(2) No other religious text describes a god that died for our sins!
(3) Therefore, the Christian God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM UNLIKE OTHER RELIGIONS (II) (argument from resurrection)
(1) The Bible said Jesus rose from the dead.
(2) No other religious text describes a god that rose from the dead!
(3) Therefore, the Christian God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM BRUTE FORCE
(1) [Christian tears Darwin Fish off car, breaks it in thirds, sticks it to driver's side window.]
(2) Therefore, the theory of evolution is wrong.
(3) Therefore, creationism is right.
(4) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM TROY
(1) There is little archeological evidence for the events in Exodus.
(2) But look at Troy! It was discovered when people thought the Iliad was only a story! So who knows if there would be a time evidence for Exodus was discovered?
(3) Therefore the Exodus actually happened.
(4) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM BIBLICAL PROPHECY (I)
(1) The book of Daniel made some prophecies.
(2) The prophecy was later fulfilled by other records in the Book of Daniel.
(3) The prophecy came true!
(4) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM SHAME
(1) The Bible showed a group of people performing embarassing actions.
(2) It must be true if the book describes negative events.
(3) The Bible is describing historical events.
(4) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM EQUAL VALUE (PC argument II)
(1) Evolution and the scientific worldview is a worldview. Similarly, the biblical worldview is a worldview.
(2) You are not discriminating against our worldview are you?
(3) The Biblical worldview is as good as the scientific worldview.
(4) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM MODERATION (often employed by liberals)
(1) The Creationist side occupies an extreme side of the spectrum.
(2) Similarly, the Atheist side occupies another extreme side of the spectrum.
(3) The liberals are in between.
(4) Therefore, the liberal position on God is the most correct.
(5) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM JACK CHICK
(1) I have all these cool Jesus comics.
(2) I also think Eternal is smart with all those great arguments.
(3) Those comics sure convinced me!
(4) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM EVIDENTIAL ASSERTION, a.k.a. "Henry Morris' Argument"
(1) God exists.
(2) Therefore all physical evidence (fossil record etc) must show this.
(3) Therefore it does.
(4) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM LACK OF MEANNESS
(1) If God didn't exist, it would be mean of him to make me believe he did!
(2) God isn't mean.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM WE ALL GOT FAITH
(1) We all believe in something.
(2) Therefore we all have faith.
(3) My faith in God is no different from your faith that the sun will rise tomorrow morning.
(4) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM COOLNESS
(1) That's really cool.
(2) God must have done that.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM WTC, a.k.a. ARGUMENT FROM TERRORISM (III)
(1) Terrorists destroyed the WTC, killing thousands.
(2) An intact Bible was found in the ruins.
(3) No, wait, it turns out it was a dictionary.
(4) Oh, well, God exists anyway.

ARGUMENT FROM COLLEGE FUNDING (usable by parents only)
(1) You believe in God.
(2) If I ever find out that you don't believe in God, you won't get any money for college!
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM SNOWFLAKES
(1) Out of 3,300 pictures of snow-crystals catalogued no two are exactly alike. Each has 6 points crossing at a 60 degree angle. If one is like a fern it has 6 out-pointing leaves; if like a windmill, it has 6 sails; if like a starfish, 6 ribs; or if like a fir tree, 6 stems with plumes set in perfect symmetry. This makes 3 distinct triangles to each flake. The Hebrew word for snow equals 333 (Hebrew letters stand for numbers).
(2) Could it not be that God has set His symbol of the Triune God in each flake? The average snow storm produces about 1000 billion crystals.
(3) Only an intelligent being could design so many forms.
(4) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM CUSTODY (used by the parents of a friend of mine)
(1) We have legal custody of your son.
(2) If you don't act as though the Christian God existed, then we won't let you see him.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM FIDEISM, a.k.a. MARTIN GARDNER'S ARGUMENT
(1) Atheists are absolutely right. There is no logical reason to believe God exists.
(2) But He makes me feel good anyway.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM PEPPER'S PHILOSOPHY CLASS, a.k.a. THE ENERGY ARGUMENT
(1) Things that exist have energy.
(2) Energy is alive.
(3) All living things are made from energy.
(4) Therefore, God Exists.

ARGUMENT FROM A BAD TRIP
(1) I went to a party and took LSD.
(2) I saw demons attacking me.
(3) Then Jesus came and drove the demons away.
(4) So I joined the Assemblies of God.
(5) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM STUPIDITY
(1) I am stupid.
(2) God made man in his own image.
(3) There are all horrible disasters going around the world.
(4) God is omnipotent in power.
(5) God is too stupid to do anything about these things.
(6) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM STAR TREK
(1) You will be assimilated.
(2) All your salvations belong to us.
(3) Resistance is futile.
(4) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM PRAYER
(1) When I pray, either it comes true or God has a better plan.
(2) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM DEMOCRACY
(1) God would never allow a non-Christian to become president.
(2) There has never been a non-Christian president.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM PAIN AVOIDANCE
(1) If I don't believe God exists, I'll go to Hell.
(2) Please don't hurt me.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM MOUNTAINS
(1) People used to think gods lived on Mt. Olympus.
(2) We've climbed Mt. Olympus and there were no gods there.
(3) Therefore, pagan gods are false.
(4) Therefore, the Christian God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM FUZZY ANIMALS, a.k.a. TELEOLOGICAL ARGUMENT (V)
(1) Bunnies are cute.
(2) Cuteness is not an evolutionary advantage.
(3) Therefore, cuteness must have been designed.
(4) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM POLITICS
(1) The vast majority of the people believe in God.
(2) I'll get elected if I pretend to believe in God.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM PRESIDENTIAL IGNORANCE
(1) If I ask God to blesserize Texas, nobody'll mess with it.
(2) Nobody messes with Texas.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM COINCIDENCE
(1) We were driving home with our youth pastor when it started to rain really hard outside.
(2) We pulled over to the side of the road, joined hands and asked gawd to deliver us home safely.
(3) We arrived home safely.
(4) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM COMPUTERS
(1) I tried to delete a copy of the TEN COMMANDMENTS from my computer. It would not have mattered as I had another copy on file.
(2) Still the computer malfunctioned.
(3) The computer had more sense than Atheists who made it.
(4) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM INVISIBILITY
(1) God is invisible.
(2) I can't see God.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM RAIN, a.k.a. PERCHANCE'S SISTER'S ARGUMENT (III)
(1) I wanted it to be a sunny day.
(2) I prayed it wouldn't rain.
(3) We had two thunderstorms.
(4) Obviously, God didn't want to answer my prayer.
(5) Of course not! What a selfish thing to pray for! How dare I try to compel God to my selfish desires!
(6) The rain was God's punishment for my selfish desires.
(7) Therefore, God exists.

METACROCK'S ARGUMENT FOR GOD (I)
(1) I Have a philosophy degree.
(2) Your knowledge in philosophy is paltry in comparison to mine.
(3) Therefore you are unable to comprehend my intense philosophical proofs of God's existence.
(4) Therefore, God exists.

METACROCK'S ARGUMENT FOR GOD (II)
(1) I created the term "arbitrary necessity".
(2) It is a golden principle and applies to whatever I say it does.
(3) I say an eternal universe is an arbitrary necessity.
(4) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM BEER (I)
(1) "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." ? Ben Franklin
(2) Beer exists.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM BEER (II)
(1) Christian: Whatever you believe in is your god.
(2) Atheist: I believe I'll have another beer.
(3) Ha ha.
(4) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM MONKEYS
(1) If man came from monkeys, there shouldn't be any more monkeys.
(2) There are still monkeys.
(3) Therefore, God Exists.

ARGUMENT FROM C.S. LEWIS
(1) C.S. Lewis had a lot of good arguments in favor of Christianity ... at least that?s what all my Christian friends tell me...
(2) C.S. Lewis wrote some popular books too!
(3) So anything C.S. Lewis said must be right!
(4) Therefore, God Exists.

ARGUMENT FROM UNIVERSAL DESTRUCTION
(1) I woke up this morning and found that the universe still exists.
(2) Therefore, its destruction was averted by God.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM DEAD FIREFIGHTERS
(1) All those dead firefighters were blessed by a Catholic priest before they gave their lives.
(2) For people they didn't even know!
(3) Yes, they were TOO mostly Catholics!
(4) I just know!
(5) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM TODD BEAMER
(1) Todd Beamer prayed "Our Father" with a switchboard operator after his flight was hijacked.
(2) Todd Beamer was a hero.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM FALWELL
(1) Jerry Falwell said some really stupid things after September 11th.
(2) Then he apologized!
(3) He was inspired by God to repent!
(4) No, it had nothing to do with the public outcry!
(5) Why? Because God told me so!
(6) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM SCIENTISTS
(1) Some famous scientists believed in God.
(2) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM FLOWERS, a.k.a. TELEOLOGICAL ARGUMENT (VI)
(1) That flower is pretty.
(2) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM INSTRUMENTATION
(1) You are an Atheist.
(2) You did something kind.
(3) You are an instrument of God.
(4) God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM QUANTUM PHYSICS
(1) Quantum physics uses an uncertainty principle.
(2) There is room for God.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM THE 2nd LAW OF THERMODYNAMICS (I)
(1) The Second Law of Thermodynamics says that a closed system tends to disorder.
(2) The universe is ordered.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM SONGS
(1) The song "America the Beautiful" has the line "God shed his grace on thee."
(2) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM APOLOGETICS WEBPAGES
(1) I was surfing the Net and came across this really cool webpage of apologetics.
(2) Their arguments were stunning. I couldn't refute them.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM COMFORT
(1) All kinds of people have found comfort in religion.
(2) That means there must be something there to give comfort to them.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM BILL O'REILLY
(1) Atheism is challenging this country's Christian roots!
(2) We are Christians!
(3) We will make a big stink about this, and not let Atheists win!
(4) We will win because God is on our side!
(5) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM EXISTENTIAL LONELINESS
(1) This can't be all there is to existence.
(2) I mean it's so horrible, pointless, brutal and nasty.
(3) It's all so depressing.
(4) I'm lonely.
(5) There has to be something else out there.
(6) I mean it, there just has to be.
(7) THERE HAS TO BE SOMETHING ELSE OUT THERE!
(8) ARRGGGG!!! THERE JUST HAS TO BE!!!!
(9) God! He can be out there for me.
(10) I'm not so lonely now!
(11) Yay!
(12) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM SINS I LIKE, a.k.a. PERCHANCE'S SISTER'S ARGUMENT (IV)
(1) I don't like abortion.
(2) But this is just my opinion.
(3) I want my opinion backed up with facts.
(4) But in the absence of facts, morals will do.
(5) Christians say abortion is a sin! Yeah! I have allies!
(6) But for a sin to exist and Christians to be right, God must exist.
(7) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM CHRISTIAN SOLIPSISM
(1) Nothing but Jesus is real.
(2) See #1.

The ARGUMENT FROM THE THRONE ROOM
(1) Would you stand in the presence of a mighty king and demand that he prove he exists?
(2) No?
(3) That's what you're doing with God, you arrogant bastards.
(4) I don't CARE that you can't see him!
(5) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM LACK OF IMAGINATION
(1) I couldn't imagine not believing in God.
(2) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM WOW
(1) When I look into the sky and see all the pretty stars, all those galaxies...
(2) Wow.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM ARMCHAIR PSYCHOANALYSIS
(1) You say there's no God?
(2) Ah, someone calling themselves Christian must have really hurt you in the past.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM CHRISTIAN EXPERTS ARE IGNORED
(1) Dembski, Behe and Plantinga are ignored by mainstream intellectuals.
(2) Only a fear of the truth could explain this.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM CHRISTIAN EXPERTS ARE NOT IGNORED
(1) Mainstream intellectuals are paying some attention to Dembski, Behe and Plantinga.
(2) Only a growing recognition of the truth could explain this.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM COUNTERFACTUAL EVIDENCE
(1) You claim the evidence for Jesus' divinity is non-existent.
(2) But if there were lots of evidence, you would still not be convinced.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM UNSEEN MIRACLES
(1) Atheists wouldn't believe in God even if He showed up and performed a miracle for them.
(2) See! There was a miracle right over there! Didn't you see it?
(3) No?
(4) You must be an Atheist. Therefore, you cannot see miracles.
(5) But miracles happen. You just can't see them.
(6) Likewise, God exists. You just can't see Him, because you are so determined not to.
(7) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM WIND
(1) You believe in wind.
(2) But you can't see it.
(3) God's the same way.
(4) It IS TOO analogous!
(5) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM WARREN ROBINETT
(1) There's a secret message in the video game "Adventure."
(2) It reveals that the game was Created By Warren Robinett.
(3) It's the same way with the world.
(4) Look for the secret messages, and you will find the World's Creator.
(5) Therefore, God Exists.

ARGUMENT FROM OFFENSIVENESS, a.k.a. GOODY2SHOES' ARGUMENT
(1) You keep making statements that I think are generalizations, hypocritical, and bigoted.
(2) I will only agree to stay if you stop that.
(3) [Non-believer tries to be non-offensive.]
(4) You're still offending me because of [insert random statement here].
(5) [Non-believer rereads her posts before posting, posting when she thinks she is not being offensive.]
(6) I'm offended!
(7) [Non-believer tears her hair out trying to figure out how to be non-offensive.]
(8) This conversation is just the two of us. I think we should stop this conversation.
(9) [Non-believer figures '****** it' and posts what she really thinks.]
(10) WOW! WHAT A BIGOT! I'm leaving!
(11) I have a spiritual victory.
(12) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM MULTIPLICITY (II), a.k.a. TERCEL'S ARGUMENT (II)
(1) I have a large number of arguments for God.
(2) There is a small chance that at least one of them is true.
(3) Using voodoo probability calculations, this means that there is a much greater chance that all of them are true taken together!
(4) And this ISN'T just the mathematical version of the Ontological Proof; I'm a real mathematician and you obviously can't understand this proof because you don't know as much about math as I do.
(5) Oh, and don't confuse things by mentioning how many Atheistic arguments there are, and the probability of each of them being correct...
(6) Or the fact that I basically pulled the probability of each of my arguments being correct out of my ass...
(7) And admit that I know more about math than you, and you'll see that...
(8) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM TRAUMATIC EXPERIENCES
(1) One time, I was in deep emotional pain.
(2) I prayed to God, and felt His presence.
(3) You aren't going to deny my emotional pain, are you?
(4) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM ABUSING THE BODY
(1) One time, I fasted for three days straight, prayed on my knees for hours, and didn't sleep, either.
(2) At the end of that time, God answered me.
(3) You see, you just have to mortify the flesh and accept the things of the spirit in order to meet God.
(4) No, there is no possibility that it was a hallucination!
(5) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM ECSTASY (used by a number of saints)
(1) I woke up last night with a feeling of indescribable pleasure and joy.
(2) It couldn't have been sexual; I'm holy and never have thoughts like those.
(3) So the ecstasy must have come from God.
(4) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM FEELING LOVE ALL AROUND, a.k.a. PERCHANCE'S SISTER'S ARGUMENT (V)
(1) I can just feel love all around me. I know the world is a good place, that people are essentially good, and that that comes from God.
(2) I don't know how I know. It's just there. You've never felt it?
(3) I don't know how I know. Stop pestering me!
(4) [Sheds tears until nasty non-believer goes away.]
(5) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM MUSIC (could also be used for art)
(1) You like classical music.
(2) Classical composers wrote for God.
(3) [Non-believer points out that they had to compose for the Church or they would have been executed.]
(4) But they wrote for God and you like the music.
(5) Therefore, God Exists.

ARGUMENT FROM SADISM (I)
(1) I enjoy beating children.
(2) I find some justification for it in the Bible.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM SADISM (II), a.k.a. ARGUMENT FROM MISOGYNY
(1) I enjoy treating women like dirt. It makes me feel powerful.
(2) I find some justification for it in the Bible.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM THE BIBLE (II)
(1) The Bible says the Bible is true.
(2) Therefore the Bible is true.
(3) The Bible says God exists.
(4) Therefore, God exist.

WILLIAM JAMES' ARGUMENT
(1) We should give people the benefit of the doubt.
(2) When someone says God exists, we should believe them.
(3) A lot of people say God exists.
(4) Therefore, God exists.

PASCAL'S ARGUMENT, a.k.a. PASCAL'S WAGER
(1) If God exists, it would be really cool. (And I would win big-time.)
(2) If God didn't exist, it would really suck. (But I wouldn't lose much.)
(3) Therefore, God exists. (Or, at least I should believe in God because it's the best bet.)

THE BIBLICAL PRESERVATION ARGUMENT
(1) The Bible hasn't changed much since it was written.
(2) Therefore everything in it must be true.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM BIBLICAL PROPHECY (II)
(1) Jesus clearly fulfilled all the prophecies of the Jews.
(2) I don't care if many stories were created to fulfill prophecy.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

THE STEWARDSHIP ARGUMENT
(1) God gave us the earth to take care of.
(2) We take care of it.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM THE 2nd LAW OF THERMODYNAMICS (II)
(1) All systems become chaotic.
(2) The Universe, too, will become chaotic.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM UNICORNS
(1) Unicorns don't exist, especially invisible pink ones.
(2) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM THE MEANING OF LIFE
(1) What's the meaning of life?
(2) [Atheist gives her answer.]
(3) That's not what I believe.
(4) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM LOGIC
(1) There are some things in logic that you can't logically demonstrate.
(2) Therefore you have to take them on faith.
(3) Your faith in logic is the same as my faith in God.
(4) Therefore, God exists.

VELIKOVSKY'S ARGUMENT
(1) If you twist the details enough, you can make a case for Venus or a comet causing the Biblical catastrophes.
(2) Therefore the Bible is true.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM CAN'T-BE-A-RACIST
(1) Martin Luther King, Jr. believed in God.
(2) I don't think you want to say Dr. King was a fool, do you?
(3) That's what I thought.
(4) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM JESUS? TORTURE
(1) No one ever, ever suffered as much as Jesus did on the cross.
(2) No, not the victims of the Inquisition.
(3) No, not the women burned at the stake or hanged as witches.
(4) No, not all the people who died thinking they were going to Hell!!!
(5) Who but God would suffer like that for us ungrateful, unworthy humans?
(6) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM SEVERABILITY, a.k.a. the True Scotsman Argument
(1) Lots of ridiculous statements are made by people who only claim is to be Real Christians.
(2) They just give Real Christians a bad name.
(3) Real Christians don't believe <insert Biblical reference> is literally true.
(4) But that doesn't mean the Bible isn't still mostly true.
(5) And the Bible is the Word of God.
(6) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM BECAUSE
(1) Because.
(2) Therefore, God exists.

ELABORATED ARGUMENT FROM BECAUSE
(1) Because.
(2) Because why?
(3) Because!
(4) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM "LET'S JUST BELIEVE," a.k.a. TAFFY LEWIS'S ARGUMENT (I)
(1) All belief systems should be treated the same as the scientific one.
(2) [non-believer: Why?]
(3) Because they have their own grounds.
(4) Anyway, that's my experience of how the world works.
(5) [non-believer: It's not mine. And why should you treat claims of unicorns less seriously than claims of gods?]
(6) I don't believe there are unicorns.
(7) But I believe there are gods.
(8) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM UNIQUE EXISTENCE
(1) God exists but not in a way that anything else that exists exists.
(2) Since there are no other things that exist as God exists, we are free to make up things about God's state of existence that ensure his continued non-observability
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM POSITIVE RELIGIOUS EXPERIENCE, a.k.a. TAFFY LEWIS'S ARGUMENT (II)
(1) More people have had positive religious experiences in the context of Western theism.
(2) Therefore, God is kind, just, and all-loving.
(3) [non-believer: What about the people who have had negative experiences? Or experiences of God's non-existence?]
(4) They don't count.
(5) Therefore, God is just the way I describe him to be.
(5a) Oh, yeah. And God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM RIGHTS
(1) The Declaration of Independence founded the U.S.
(2) Therefore, the Declaration of Independence is true.
(3) The Declaration of Independence says that our rights are "endowed by our Creator."
(4) George W. agrees with this.
(5) You have rights, don't you???
(6) Well where the f*** do you think they came from???
(7) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM FUTURE EVIDENCE
(1) Look, I realize that it doesn't seem to make sense that there would logically be a God.
(2) However, I know He's real, and that in the future I think that maybe something will happen probably that will show you all.
(3) Therefore, God Exists.

ARGUMENT FROM POSTULATE
(1) To fully understand the following demonstration, you must first assume that God exists.
(2) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM POOR TYPING SKILLS
(1) In tihs essae ill demnstrate that gOd exsits in a way tat's so sure thatno athesit can PSOosibly reftue. J will firts dwmonsrtate waht we canaSSUme fo rGod exisnce,,then how wwe can refute anya rgument wihch pretends teh contrrary to eb true,tehn wel'l expose scinetific evidnece thatGod eeexists then we'll cnolcude. yOU will fnid an acurate&up6to6date bibliography no teh page 43 of tihs essay;i Sugegst yu to pritn iths doculent for a mroe confortable raeding.
(2) [Atheist doesn't bother to read it.]
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM UNTRANSLATED OLD FRENCH
(1) « Mais pourceque j'avois déjà connu en moi très clairement que la nature intelligente est distincte de la corporelle; considérant que toute composition témoigne de la dépendance, et que la dépendance est manifestement un défaut, je jugeois de là que ce ne pouvoit être une perfection en Dieu d'être composé de ces deux natures, et que par conséquent il ne l'étoit pas; mais que s'il y avoit quelques corps dans le monde, ou bien quelques intelligences ou autres natures qui ne fussent point toutes parfaites, leur être devoit dépendre de sa puissance, en telle sorte quelles ne pouvoient subsister sans lui un seul moment. ? René Descartes, Discours de la Méthode
(2) How could you possibly refute that?
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM CLEVER USE OF VOCABULARY
(1) Many Atheists will not be convinced by an argument with "Therefore, God exists" as its conclusion.
(2) Consequently, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM IGNORANCE, a.k.a. ARGUMENT FROM PERSONAL INCREDULITY (III)
(1) I don't understand evolution; I mean how could there be nothing then something?
(2) (Well informed Atheist gives articulate explanation of evolution and gently explains that the beginning of the universe has nothing to do with evolution.)
(3) Well it seems way too complicated and unlikely to me. Plus I don't want to live my life thinking I evolved from a monkey.
(4) Therefore, God exists and Jesus died for our sins.
(5) (Atheist argues that theist's ignorance of evolution does not logically lead to the conclusion that there is a god, let alone the Christian god.)
(6) Says you! God bless.
(7) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM CHURCH
(1) Lots of people go to church.
(2) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM PHOTO-OP, a.k.a. ARGUMENT FROM THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE (II)
(1) A couple of godless commie federal judges ruled the 1954 inclusion of "under God" in the Pledge unconstitutional.
(2) Almost immediately thereafter, the whole U.S. Senate recited the Pledge, including "under God," on the Capitol steps.
(3) The Senators' conduct was not ? I repeat, NOT ? mere political posturing and/or vote whoring.
(4) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM DEFENESTRATION
(1) If God exists, then He will protect me if I jump out this third story window.
(2) However, you will not be so fortunate, unsaved heathen!
(3) *shove*
(4) See! God didn't protect you, just like I predicted! Any counterarguments, heathen?
(5) No? Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM MUSHROOMS
(1) This pizza tastes funny.
(2) That purple llama on the ceiling is juggling chainsaws.
(3) Purple llamas can't juggle chainsaws.
(4) It must be a miracle!
(5) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM MYTHOLOGY
(1) The old religions were wrong.
(2) The old religions didn't believe in the same god as me.
(3) Therefore, I must be right.
(4) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM ACCUSATION
(1) The Bible says that everyone knows God exists.
(2) Therefore, YOU know that God exists.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM NOT-BELIEVING
(1) The New Testament says people like you would question us.
(2) You question us.
(3) Therefore the Bible is true.
(4) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM BANANAS (RAY COMFORT'S ARGUMENT)
(1) Bananas have many characteristics that make them attractive as primate food.
(2) They're so good that they must have been designed, just like Coke cans.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM METEORS (PAT ROBERTSON'S ARGUMENT)
(1) God hates gay people.
(2) God is merciful.
(3) Disney World held a Gay Day parade.
(4) God could punish Disney World by sending hurricanes, earthquakes, and possibly a meteor to Florida.
(5) God didn't, thus proving both postulates 1 and 2.
(6) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM COAL MINERS (I)
(1) A bunch of miners got trapped.
(2) A bunch of people worked around the clock for a week to rescue them.
(3) They were all found alive.
(4) It must have been a miracle!
(5) Only God could have done that.
(6) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM COAL MINERS (II), a.k.a. YOU ONLY HEAR FROM THE SURVIVORS (I)
(1) A bunch of miners got trapped.
(2) A bunch of people worked hard to rescue them.
(3) One was found alive.
(4) He thanked God for his survival.
(5) Only God could have done that.
(6) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM AIRPLANE CRASH, a.k.a. YOU ONLY HEAR FROM THE SURVIVORS (II)
(1) An airplane I was on crashed, killing most passengers.
(2) I survived!
(3) It was a MIRACLE!
(4) Only God could have done that.
(5) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM YOUTH GROUP MINISTER
(1) God is awesome!
(2) Like, totally, dude!
(3) Therefore, God, like, exists and stuff.

ARGUMENT FROM PERSONAL INABILITY
(1) The Bible says Jesus turned water into wine.
(2) Can you turn water into wine?
(3) No? Well there ya go.
(4) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM PERSONAL ABILITY
(1) I prayed to God, and then lifted a car off my trapped puppy.
(2) I couldn't have done that without God.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM DIVINE OPPOSITION
(1) Satan is bad.
(2) You don't want to be on Satan's side, do you?
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM DIVINE OPPOSITION AS USED BY A YOUTH GROUP MINISTER
(1) Satan really sucks, dude.
(2) You don't wanna, like, be like Satan, right dude?
(3) Therefore God, like, exists and stuff. Totally.

ARGUMENT FROM BUFFALO, a.k.a. TELEOLOGICAL ARGUMENT (VII)
(1) The Indians used every part of the buffalo.
(2) A creature we can use every part of couldn't have just randomly evolved!
(3) It had to be created specifically for us!
(4) Therefore, God exists, and spent his early years churning out buffalo.

ARGUMENT FROM DENTAL OPPORTUNITY
(1) Bite me.
(2) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM DENTAL OPPORTUNITY, ACCEPTED
(1) Bite me.
(2) OW! YOU BIT ME!
(3) I'm being persecuted!!
(4) Therefore, God exists!

ARGUMENT FR

 

[So]

Originally posted by: FirstAssembliesofGod
I answer that it can be proved in five ways that God exists.

The first and plainest is the method that proceeds from the point of view of motion. It is certain and in accord with experience, that things on earth undergo change. Now, everything that is moved is moved by something; nothing, indeed, is changed, except it is changed to something which it is in potentiality. Moreover, anything moves in accordance with something actually existing; change itself, is nothing else than to bring forth something from potentiality into actuality. Now, nothing can be brought from potentiality to actual existence except through something actually existing: thus heat in action, as fire, makes fire-wood, which is hot in potentiality, to be hot actually, and through this process, changes itself. The same thing cannot at the same time be actually and potentially the same thing, but only in regard to different things. What is actually hot cannot be at the same time potentially hot, but it is possible for it at the same time to be potentially cold. It is impossible, then, that anything should be both mover and the thing moved, in regard to the same thing and in the same way, or that it should move itself. Everything, therefore, is moved by something else. If, then, that by which it is moved, is also moved, this must be moved by something still different, and this, again, by something else. But this process cannot go on to infinity because there would not be any first mover, nor, because of this fact, anything else in motion, as the succeeding things would not move except because of what is moved by the first mover, just as a stick is not moved except through what is moved from the hand. Therefore it is necessary to go back to some first mover, which is itself moved by nothing---and this all men know as God.

The second proof is from the nature of the efficient cause. We find in our experience that there is a chain of causes: nor is it found possible for anything to be the efficient cause of itself, since it would have to exist before itself, which is impossible. Nor in the case of efficient causes can the chain go back indefinitely, because in all chains of efficient causes, the first is the cause of the middle, and these of the last, whether they be one or many. If the cause is removed, the effect is removed. Hence if there is not a first cause, there will not be a last, nor a middle. But if the chain were to go back infinitely, there would be no first cause, and thus no ultimate effect, nor middle causes, which is admittedly false. Hence we must presuppose some first efficient cause---which all call God.

The third proof is taken from the natures of the merely possible and necessary. We find that certain things either may or may not exist, since they are found to come into being and be destroyed, and in consequence potentially, either existent or non-existent. But it is impossible for all things that are of this character to exist eternally, because what may not exist, at length will not. If, then, all things were merely possible (mere accidents), eventually nothing among things would exist. If this is true, even now there would be nothing, because what does not exist, does not take its beginning except through something that does exist. If then nothing existed, it would be impossible for anything to begin, and there would now be nothing existing, which is admittedly false. Hence not all things are mere accidents, but there must be one necessarily existing being. Now every necessary thing either has a cause of its necessary existence, or has not. In the case of necessary things that have a cause for their necessary existence, the chain of causes cannot go back infinitely, just as not in the case of efficient causes, as proved. Hence there must be presupposed something necessarily existing through its own nature, not having a cause elsewhere but being itself the cause of the necessary existence of other things---which all call God.

The fourth proof arises from the degrees that are found in things. For there is found a greater and a less degree of goodness, truth, nobility, and the like. But more or less are terms spoken of various things as they approach in diverse ways toward something that is the greatest, just as in the case of hotter (more hot) which approaches nearer the greatest heat. There exists therefore something that is the truest, and best, and most noble, and in consequence, the greatest being. For what are the greatest truths are the greatest beings, as is said in the Metaphysics Bk. II. 2. What moreover is the greatest in its way, in another way is the cause of all things of its own kind (or genus); thus fire, which is the greatest heat, is the cause of all heat, as is said in the same book (cf. Plato and Aristotle). Therefore there exists something that is the cause of the existence of all things and of the goodness and of every perfection whatsoever---and this we call God.

The fifth proof arises from the ordering of things for we see that some things which lack reason, such as natural bodies, are operated in accordance with a plan. It appears from this that they are operated always or the more frequently in this same way the closer they follow what is the Highest; whence it is clear that they do not arrive at the result by chance but because of a purpose. The things, moreover, that do not have intelligence do not tend toward a result unless directed by some one knowing and intelligent; just as an arrow is sent by an archer. Therefore there is something intelligent by which all natural things are arranged in accordance with a plan---and this we call God.

These are analogies, which provide no actual reason to believe in anything. Essentially you're saying suppose, therefore B, but you've drawn no actual logical reasoning in between. The fourth one doesn't even make sense. There is no greatest heat, just like there is no greatest number.

5- Apparent order in the universe arises from the first principles. If everything exists according to the same laws, of course there will be similarities. Your argument is basically 'god would be too stupid to create a universe with differing laws, so he we see consistency because inconsistency was too much work.

You haven't made an argument anywhere in the above post, you've simply rambled for long enough to present the appearance of an argument.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Originally posted by: FirstAssembliesofGod
I answer that it can be proved in five ways that God exists.

The first and plainest is the method that proceeds from the point of view of motion. It is certain and in accord with experience, that things on earth undergo change. Now, everything that is moved is moved by something; nothing, indeed, is changed, except it is changed to something which it is in potentiality. Moreover, anything moves in accordance with something actually existing; change itself, is nothing else than to bring forth something from potentiality into actuality. Now, nothing can be brought from potentiality to actual existence except through something actually existing: thus heat in action, as fire, makes fire-wood, which is hot in potentiality, to be hot actually, and through this process, changes itself. The same thing cannot at the same time be actually and potentially the same thing, but only in regard to different things. What is actually hot cannot be at the same time potentially hot, but it is possible for it at the same time to be potentially cold. It is impossible, then, that anything should be both mover and the thing moved, in regard to the same thing and in the same way, or that it should move itself. Everything, therefore, is moved by something else. If, then, that by which it is moved, is also moved, this must be moved by something still different, and this, again, by something else. But this process cannot go on to infinity because there would not be any first mover, nor, because of this fact, anything else in motion, as the succeeding things would not move except because of what is moved by the first mover, just as a stick is not moved except through what is moved from the hand. Therefore it is necessary to go back to some first mover, which is itself moved by nothing---and this all men know as God.

The second proof is from the nature of the efficient cause. We find in our experience that there is a chain of causes: nor is it found possible for anything to be the efficient cause of itself, since it would have to exist before itself, which is impossible. Nor in the case of efficient causes can the chain go back indefinitely, because in all chains of efficient causes, the first is the cause of the middle, and these of the last, whether they be one or many. If the cause is removed, the effect is removed. Hence if there is not a first cause, there will not be a last, nor a middle. But if the chain were to go back infinitely, there would be no first cause, and thus no ultimate effect, nor middle causes, which is admittedly false. Hence we must presuppose some first efficient cause---which all call God.

The third proof is taken from the natures of the merely possible and necessary. We find that certain things either may or may not exist, since they are found to come into being and be destroyed, and in consequence potentially, either existent or non-existent. But it is impossible for all things that are of this character to exist eternally, because what may not exist, at length will not. If, then, all things were merely possible (mere accidents), eventually nothing among things would exist. If this is true, even now there would be nothing, because what does not exist, does not take its beginning except through something that does exist. If then nothing existed, it would be impossible for anything to begin, and there would now be nothing existing, which is admittedly false. Hence not all things are mere accidents, but there must be one necessarily existing being. Now every necessary thing either has a cause of its necessary existence, or has not. In the case of necessary things that have a cause for their necessary existence, the chain of causes cannot go back infinitely, just as not in the case of efficient causes, as proved. Hence there must be presupposed something necessarily existing through its own nature, not having a cause elsewhere but being itself the cause of the necessary existence of other things---which all call God.

The fourth proof arises from the degrees that are found in things. For there is found a greater and a less degree of goodness, truth, nobility, and the like. But more or less are terms spoken of various things as they approach in diverse ways toward something that is the greatest, just as in the case of hotter (more hot) which approaches nearer the greatest heat. There exists therefore something that is the truest, and best, and most noble, and in consequence, the greatest being. For what are the greatest truths are the greatest beings, as is said in the Metaphysics Bk. II. 2. What moreover is the greatest in its way, in another way is the cause of all things of its own kind (or genus); thus fire, which is the greatest heat, is the cause of all heat, as is said in the same book (cf. Plato and Aristotle). Therefore there exists something that is the cause of the existence of all things and of the goodness and of every perfection whatsoever---and this we call God.

In other words, you can't conceive of an infinite set without a least or greatest element, therefore God exists.

Argument from incredulity is a fallacy.

The fifth proof arises from the ordering of things for we see that some things which lack reason, such as natural bodies, are operated in accordance with a plan. It appears from this that they are operated always or the more frequently in this same way the closer they follow what is the Highest; whence it is clear that they do not arrive at the result by chance but because of a purpose. The things, moreover, that do not have intelligence do not tend toward a result unless directed by some one knowing and intelligent; just as an arrow is sent by an archer. Therefore there is something intelligent by which all natural things are arranged in accordance with a plan---and this we call God.

This is false. Bernard convection, for example, represents the spontaneous formation of orderly structures.

Nobody is telling you not to believe in God, but at least do so for good reasons, not the ones you've given here.

 

[CKent]

If God existed, he would smiteth the OP into the bowels of hell. We'll have to see if the OP responds or not before we can determine whether or not God exists.

 

[FirstAssembliesofGod]

Clifnotes of Clifnotes of Clifnotes:

God, biblically, defines God?s self as ?the beginning and the end?. If there is a big-bang and a big-crunch then there is, by definition, God as defined in the bible. This does not mean you don?t have to have faith to believe in many of the other qualities of God.

If anything is in motion then something must have set it in motion? or, as adolescently as possible: ?God made whatever made the big-bang?

Argument from incredulity is a fallacy.

If it's meant as absolute proof then it's fallacious. If incredulity is meant as a means of encouraging one to look into why that incredulity exists and the incredulity is reasonably founded then it's not unreasonable to conclude that it's something of need of further investigation.

Nobody is telling you not to believe in God, but at least do so for good reasons, not the ones you've given here.

I conclude God exists because of the experiences I?ve had with Christ in my life, not the silly arguments made with my feeble mind.

I?ll pickup some of these grosses misrepresentations of the true arguments and agree with one:

ARGUMENT FROM PERSONAL SANITY
(1) I've had religious experiences that can't be explained unless I'm insane or God exists.
(2) Therefore, God exists.

Insanity keeps you from holding a job, having a family and friends and positively leading a happy life. Most people who?ve experienced God directly are either insane or have actually felt the presence of God. Most of these people do, in fact, have friends, family and live happy normal lives.

The faith is something you can argue, the function for the individual isn?t.
And yes: the ability to take advantage of people through institutions of learning and devotion exists, but if nations couldn?t use religion to bring people to war then they?d use there soccer teams.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Originally posted by: FirstAssembliesofGod

If anything is in motion then something must have set it in motion.

Again, that doesn't mean that there must have been a first "something."

Argument from incredulity is a fallacy.

If it's meant as absolute proof then it's fallacious.

You were the one describing your arguments as proof.

 

[FirstAssembliesofGod]

Originally posted by: Garth

Originally posted by: FirstAssembliesofGod

If anything is in motion then something must have set it in motion.

Argument from incredulity is a fallacy.

If it's meant as absolute proof then it's fallacious.

You were the one describing your arguments as proof.

Yea but c?mon, I might as well be arguing for the existence of the flying spaghetti monster? and for all I know that?s what God looks like? if that happens to be the form He took to make it all work. So I like more to think these are good reasons to pray to God and ask him to reveal himself to you, rather than a disproof of the need for faith.

Let us presume that nothing existed... if nothing existed then anything could have come from it, included in this anything is an all-knowing God who could bring order, stop the cycle of creation/destruction, be outside of time and create more. Also included in this anything is an eruption of existence that would lead to it's eventual return to nothingness. Sense it is possible that God would come about from this nothing ness and the cycle of something/nothingness would continue until God's eventual spontaneous creation God must therefore exist.

 

[George P Burdell]

You n00bs! God exists. And he has a post count of 171.

/thread

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Originally posted by: FirstAssembliesofGod

Yea but c?mon, I might as well be arguing for the existence of the flying spaghetti monster? and for all I know that?s what God looks like? if that happens to be the form He took to make it all work. So I like more to think these are good reasons to pray to God and ask him to reveal himself to you, rather than a disproof of the need for faith.

But they are not good reasons, because they are fallacious arguments.

Let us presume that nothing existed...

I can no more presume that nothing exists than I can presume that circles have corners.

 

[judasmachine]

I love the sheer ignorance of the arguements that claim to have proof either way. It's foolish to have faith, whether it's faith telling you there is, or faith telling you there isn't. Either you convince yourself there is, or you convince yourself there is not. The only arguement that makes any sense oncesoever is that of an Agnostic who simply isn't sure.

For those who believe, no proof is necessary
For those who do not believe, no proof is possible.


(Unless god talks directly to you through a flaming shubbery that is...)

 

[FirstAssembliesofGod]

?But they are not good reasons, because they are fallacious arguments.?

If I say I like doughnuts because they are good would you say:
?I will not try a dough nut, your personal taste and preference does not prove that doughnuts are good?

... bad analogy... ok: I?m not trying to logically argue that God does exist and you should there for look for Him. I?m arguing that it?s a possibility God exists because of these things, much as if I walk outside and the sidewalk is wet I can?t prove it rained, but I can argue that it?s a possibility that it rained and therefore you should look into it.

In the case of rain I would check the weather reports for the night before: see if there was a sprinkler system going, remember if I heard lightning and so forth.

In the case of God he said ?pray and I will reveal myself to you?.

?I can no more presume that nothing exists than I can presume that circles have corners.?
Love the argument can I put it on my wall? It?ll sit right next to the question of the validity of the statement ?The present King of France is bald.?

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Originally posted by: FirstAssembliesofGod
?But they are not good reasons, because they are fallacious arguments.?

If I say I like doughnuts because they are good would you say:
?I will not try a dough nut, your personal taste and preference does not prove that doughnuts are good?

You did not offer arguments about your personal tastes and preferences. You offered arguments lacking basis in fact.

... bad analogy... ok: I?m not trying to logically argue that God does exist and you should there for look for Him.

Oh? Then what was all that supposed "proof" nonsense about?

I?m arguing that it?s a possibility God exists because of these things, much as if I walk outside and the sidewalk is wet I can?t prove it rained, but I can argue that it?s a possibility that it rained and therefore you should look into it.

Do you think that I haven't?

In the case of God he said ?pray and I will reveal myself to you?.

I did. He didn't.

?I can no more presume that nothing exists than I can presume that circles have corners.?
Love the argument can I put it on my wall? It?ll sit right next to the question of the validity of the statement ?The present King of France is bald.?

I did not offer an argument. You asked me to presume something incoherent, and I declared as much.

 

[sundev]

Yes, there is a GOD. While you're on our forums, we are GOD.

AnandTech Moderator

What the hell are you talking about?

 

[huberm]

According to the basic laws of thermodynamics, the total amount of mass-energy in the universe is constant. Also, the amount of energy available for work is running out (ie entropy is increasing to a max).

If the total amount of mass-energy is limited, and the amount of usable energy is decreasing, then the universe cannot have existed forever - otherwise it would have already exhausted all usable energy (ie all radioactive atoms would have decayed, every part of the universe would be the same temp, etc).

This suggests the universe began, or was created, a finite time ago.

What ultimately made me a believer was all of the prophecies in the Bible. There have been described in the Old Testament 300 prophecies of the first coming of the Messiah and 500 of the second coming. All of these were made hundreds of years before Jesus was born, and they were fulfilled completely by Him. Whats even more astonishing is we are living in the times once described in the Bible!

George Heron, a mathematician, calculated the odds of a man fulfilling only 40 of those prophecies are 1 in 10 to the 157th power!

I really wish I could show you the changes that have happened in my life from following Jesus. A Christian cannot even completely describe the transformation a soul goes through. I really wish I could show everyone the truth, and that everyone would accept it. Unfortunately some people will always reject it. Evidence of this will probably be seen shortly after this post, but keep in mind that Christians are hated because they do not conform to this world.

If you are truly seeking the truth, I challenge you to not be deceived. Jesus gave a stern warning - "Take heed that no one deceives you" (Matthew 24:3-4). Consider the eternal consequences if you are indeed wrong.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Originally posted by: huberm
According to the basic laws of thermodynamics, the total amount of mass-energy in the universe is constant. Also, the amount of energy available for work is running out (ie entropy is increasing to a max).

If the total amount of mass-energy is limited, and the amount of usable energy is decreasing, then the universe cannot have existed forever - otherwise it would have already exhausted all usable energy (ie all radioactive atoms would have decayed, every part of the universe would be the same temp, etc).

This suggests the universe began, or was created, a finite time ago.

What ultimately made me a believer was all of the prophecies in the Bible. There have been described in the Old Testament 300 prophecies of the first coming of the Messiah and 500 of the second coming. All of these were made hundreds of years before Jesus was born, and they were fulfilled completely by Him. Whats even more astonishing is we are living in the times once described in the Bible!

George Heron, a mathematician, calculated the odds of a man fulfilling only 40 of those prophecies are 1 in 10 to the 157th power!

I really wish I could show you the changes that have happened in my life from following Jesus. A Christian cannot even completely describe the transformation a soul goes through. I really wish I could show everyone the truth, and that everyone would accept it. Unfortunately some people will always reject it. Evidence of this will probably be seen shortly after this post, but keep in mind that Christians are hated because they do not conform to this world.

If you are truly seeking the truth, I challenge you to not be deceived. Jesus gave a stern warning - "Take heed that no one deceives you" (Matthew 24:3-4). Consider the eternal consequences if you are indeed wrong.

Infinity is a constant.

 

[FirstAssembliesofGod]

Do you think that I haven't?

you is one of those universal "yous".. like 'you should eat right and exercise' it includes everyone, even myself.

Sorry to hear the prayer thing didn't work, but it's cool you tried! maybe you should try again, i hear that marry chick spends all night yapping to him and he can get quite busy ;-) *silly ness aside i've got some actual ideas on why some have a harder time hearing from God in prayer than others and if it's not to much of a bother i'd be happy to share them in whatever manner you feel comfortable with*

you asked me to presume something incoherent, and I declared as much.

Oh.. you equivocated instead of following the logic of the statement... I thought you'd caught that and offered the equivocation on the definition of 'nothing' as a matter of jovial discourse. I must have failed to make myself clear, my apologies, let me explain why the equivocation has occurred:

If not then I believe I see the problem with your understanding;
by ?nothing I meant?:
b : the absence of all magnitude or quantity;

I could have also said ?presume that there is the absence of all magnitude or quantity?

But you responded to the definition of ?nothing? that is:
a : something that does not exist

see but your retort was against the statement ?presume something that does not exist, exists?

which was not actually what I intended to get across, you there fore equivocated *not by your own intent* over the meaning.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Originally posted by: FirstAssembliesofGod

x Oh.. you equivocated on the semantics of the argument instead of following the logic of the statement... I thought you'd caught that and offered the equivocation on the definition of 'nothing' as a matter of jovial discourse. I must have failed to make myself clear, my apologies, let me explain why the equivocation has occurred:

If not then I believe I see the problem with your understanding;
by ?nothing I meant?:
b : the absence of all magnitude or quantity;

I could have also said ?presume that there is the absence of all magnitude or quantity?

But you responded to the definition of ?nothing? that is:
a : something that does not exist

see but your retort was against the statement ?presume something that does not exist, exists?

which was not actually what I intended to get across, you there fore equivocated *not by your own intent* over the meaning.

I still fail to see the significant distinction between a and b that somehow renders your request coherent. To the best of my knowledge, the absence of all magnitude and quantity *IS* something that doesn't exist. Only things exist. "Nothing" does not.

 

[So]

Originally posted by: huberm
According to the basic laws of thermodynamics, the total amount of mass-energy in the universe is constant. Also, the amount of energy available for work is running out (ie entropy is increasing to a max).

If the total amount of mass-energy is limited, and the amount of usable energy is decreasing, then the universe cannot have existed forever - otherwise it would have already exhausted all usable energy (ie all radioactive atoms would have decayed, every part of the universe would be the same temp, etc).

This suggests the universe began, or was created, a finite time ago.

What ultimately made me a believer was all of the prophecies in the Bible. There have been described in the Old Testament 300 prophecies of the first coming of the Messiah and 500 of the second coming. All of these were made hundreds of years before Jesus was born, and they were fulfilled completely by Him. Whats even more astonishing is we are living in the times once described in the Bible!

George Heron, a mathematician, calculated the odds of a man fulfilling only 40 of those prophecies are 1 in 10 to the 157th power!

I really wish I could show you the changes that have happened in my life from following Jesus. A Christian cannot even completely describe the transformation a soul goes through. I really wish I could show everyone the truth, and that everyone would accept it. Unfortunately some people will always reject it. Evidence of this will probably be seen shortly after this post, but keep in mind that Christians are hated because they do not conform to this world.

If you are truly seeking the truth, I challenge you to not be deceived. Jesus gave a stern warning - "Take heed that no one deceives you" (Matthew 24:3-4). Consider the eternal consequences if you are indeed wrong.

A singularity a finite time in the past does not imply a god.

 

[FirstAssembliesofGod]

Here's how to have faith:

Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything. If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him. 6But when he asks, he must believe and not doubt, because he who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. That man should not think he will receive anything from the Lord; 8he is a double-minded man, unstable in all he does.

Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded. Grieve, mourn and wail. Change your laughter to mourning and your joy to gloom. Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up.

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: FirstAssembliesofGod
Here's how to have faith:

Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything. If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him. 6But when he asks, he must believe and not doubt, because he who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. That man should not think he will receive anything from the Lord; 8he is a double-minded man, unstable in all he does.

Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded. Grieve, mourn and wail. Change your laughter to mourning and your joy to gloom. Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up.

Aren't you the guy who comes around my door every so often?

 

[eits]

i think they're one in the same