I was having this conversation with my friend (we're both hindus) and I'm utterly conufsed.
Edit: READ SPARKNOTES BELOW if you're feeling lazy
Sparknotes are below:
1) We started talking about how we didn't beleive in chanted/ritualized prayers
2) "All those stories...way back then if you said you were a god people would have beleived it....I think that those stories may have had some factual, historical background but not really a religious background"
3) God as a watchmaker: Did he create the world and leave it? We nodded 'no' to that.
4) God as an active participant. Does he actually guide us and help us?
5) On the lines of being an active participant: we started talking about life-changing experiences that our relatives have had.
The key:
6) Some type of conclusion: God speaks to us in a different way. There is no right or wrong concept of god. Some beleive in no god, some beleive in a concrete/traditional existance, some beleive in an abstract concept. Doesn't matter. We can't 'feel' god with our limited senses, therefore god will appeal to us in the manner in which we are most familiar to him with.
---
I know we're all from diferent religious (or non-religious) backgrounds here....and no I'm not trolling my 'beleifs'.
Right now I'm in a stage where I'm extremely confused about life and religion especially. Just looking for some comments from you guys, that's all.
-The Pentium Guy
Edit: READ SPARKNOTES BELOW if you're feeling lazy
Skim over it if you want.The Pentium Guy: i hate that
The Pentium Guy: beats the purpose of the word 'temple'
The Pentium Guy: id go there to pray
The Pentium Guy: peacefully
The Pentium Guy: not wait in line and do useless crap
The Pentium Guy: i dunno
The Pentium Guy: im different
The Pentium Guy: i dont like reciting prayers
The Pentium Guy: 1) i dun understand what im saying
The Pentium Guy: 2) what'st he point if i dont understand what im saying
Aurkan21: LOL
The Pentium Guy: 3) how the hell can i get in touch with god with those wrods?
The Pentium Guy: 4) meditation is the bset form of prayer
Aurkan21: I know.
The Pentium Guy: 5) if all the prayers are in freaking SANSKRIT. WHY THE ****** SHOULD I SAY THEM?
Aurkan21: I prefer to meditate too.
Aurkan21: Prayers...Bah.
The Pentium Guy: yay for the future generatoin hindus
The Pentium Guy: im sick of tradition anyway
The Pentium Guy: gets kinda ... yeah-righty after a while
The Pentium Guy: you looked into shintoism?
The Pentium Guy: now THAT.
The Pentium Guy: ...
The Pentium Guy: THAT.
The Pentium Guy: has some merit
Aurkan21: Yeah, I did/
The Pentium Guy: 'god is in nature' is the philosophy
Aurkan21: It's nifty.
The Pentium Guy: yeah
The Pentium Guy: i dunno
The Pentium Guy: i sit just me?
The Pentium Guy: or do are all of the fairy tale religion stories fake?
The Pentium Guy: i dont care if its adam&eve, the flood, story of shiva, etc
The Pentium Guy: i beleive that ...
The Pentium Guy: like take the mahabarata for example
The Pentium Guy: SURELY people back then,
The Pentium Guy: if there were monkey-people
The Pentium Guy: this was WAY back then
The Pentium Guy: that must mean that ..
The Pentium Guy: well..
The Pentium Guy: ....
Aurkan21: ?
The Pentium Guy: anything 'great' that was done .... by someone..
The Pentium Guy: ^-- that person would be regarded as a god
The Pentium Guy: sorta know what i mean?
The Pentium Guy: like, if you said "im god" to ppl of way-back-then, they would beleive you
Aurkan21: Hero worsh at the next level?
Aurkan21: *Worship.
Aurkan21: OMG my spelling sucks today.
Aurkan21: <<;;;
The Pentium Guy: >p
The Pentium Guy: really, exactly.
The Pentium Guy: why aren't "gods" on the earth today?
The Pentium Guy: beucase we actally think?
The Pentium Guy: duh
Aurkan21:
The Pentium Guy: those stories may have some factual merit
The Pentium Guy: but i really don't think they're "gods"
Aurkan21: Dountful.
The Pentium Guy: there could have been a king.
Aurkan21: ZOMFG!
The Pentium Guy: there could have been a rama
Aurkan21: *Doubtful
The Pentium Guy: there could have been a ... you know....whatshisname...
The Pentium Guy: that evil guy..
The Pentium Guy: the guy who rama kills
Aurkan21: Ravana.
The Pentium Guy: yeahyeah
The Pentium Guy: not with nine heads,
The Pentium Guy: but .....
The Pentium Guy: you know.
The Pentium Guy: just. bad.
Aurkan21: Still evil?
The Pentium Guy: yeah
The Pentium Guy: and people could have written down stories about him
Aurkan21: Actually, there WAS a Ravana.
The Pentium Guy: yeah
Aurkan21: In sri Lanka, he was a highly regarded king.
Aurkan21: Not evil.
The Pentium Guy: oh
The Pentium Guy: well to the indians, he would have been evi;l
The Pentium Guy: becuase they're enemies
The Pentium Guy: right?
Aurkan21: possibly.
The Pentium Guy: <-_->
Aurkan21: Maybe he was jsut shown as evil for..
Aurkan21: Ya know, dramatism?
The Pentium Guy: dunno
The Pentium Guy: but yeah,
The Pentium Guy: i tend to look at those stories as history anyway
The Pentium Guy: not as religious stories
The Pentium Guy: the story of the FLOOD for god's sake
The Pentium Guy: that was presented in
The Pentium Guy: 1) babylonian
The Pentium Guy: 2) egyptian
The Pentium Guy: 3) hebrew
The Pentium Guy: literature
The Pentium Guy: 3 differnet forms, all the same story, all of them relating to god
The Pentium Guy: there had to have been a massive flood
The Pentium Guy: was it god that caused it? yeah right.
The Pentium Guy: people couldn't explain the flood
Aurkan21: ...
The Pentium Guy: so they said god did it
Aurkan21: So they 'rationalized'.
The Pentium Guy: exactly
Aurkan21: In what thy THOUGHT
Aurkan21: Was rational.
Aurkan21: *They
The Pentium Guy: it'sn ot like they knew about high tide/low tide and air pressure/current blabhalbah
Aurkan21:
The Pentium Guy: just my theory anyway
The Pentium Guy: im a guy who thinks uhh
Aurkan21: I agree.
The Pentium Guy: there IS a force
The Pentium Guy: out there.
The Pentium Guy: i dunno
Aurkan21: I thought about that a lot too.
The Pentium Guy: SOMETHING
Aurkan21: Dunno...
The Pentium Guy: something that started it all
The Pentium Guy: *SOMETHING*
The Pentium Guy: whether it's a force or a god
Aurkan21: A quantum singularity!
The Pentium Guy: i think of it more as a force
The Pentium Guy: XD
Aurkan21: MuwahhHHahAA
Aurkan21:
Aurkan21: -worshp teh scalar field!
The Pentium Guy:
The Pentium Guy: XD
The Pentium Guy: but here's the question i've been wondering...
Aurkan21: Er..I'm just hyper.
Aurkan21: plaease excuse me.
The Pentium Guy: lol.
Aurkan21: xD
The Pentium Guy: you heard the theory of the Watchmaker>
The Pentium Guy: that goes this way:
The Pentium Guy: the force is like a watchmaker
The Pentium Guy: the watchmaker creates the watch
The Pentium Guy: and leaves it to run.
Aurkan21: Yeah?
The Pentium Guy: so similarly
The Pentium Guy: 'god' created the world
The Pentium Guy: and left it this way
The Pentium Guy: like, he plays no part in anything at all.. he's done
Aurkan21: And left it to it's own devices?
Aurkan21: So, he's basically an inert spectator?
The Pentium Guy: yeah
The Pentium Guy: <--------- OR ---------->
The Pentium Guy: and he helps us
The Pentium Guy: 'god' created us..
The Pentium Guy: i really dont know.
Aurkan21: Kinada takes away all that 'God's will' crap...
The Pentium Guy: heh
The Pentium Guy: eyah..
The Pentium Guy: no really
The Pentium Guy: that's waht im wondering about
The Pentium Guy: it'sn ot like there's an answer
The Pentium Guy: the thing is.
The Pentium Guy: what about those holy people?
Aurkan21: Er..
The Pentium Guy: you been to sringeri?
Aurkan21: Are they truly holy?
The Pentium Guy: ...yeah that's what im wondering
The Pentium Guy: i really dont know....
The Pentium Guy: are they?
Aurkan21: Yeah, that's the question..
The Pentium Guy: there's a lotta things that happened that direclty influenced my family and stuff
The Pentium Guy: i dunno.
The Pentium Guy: I DUNNO
Aurkan21: Like?
The Pentium Guy: err.
The Pentium Guy: you'll probably laugh
Aurkan21: No.
The Pentium Guy: but he appeared in a dream to my uncle and said something about starting a temple
The Pentium Guy: so my uncle went to sringeri
The Pentium Guy: and he was expecting him
Aurkan21: And he did?
The Pentium Guy: and ... yeah
The Pentium Guy: .....
The Pentium Guy: ...which is freaking SCARY.
The Pentium Guy: he was EXPECTING him
The Pentium Guy: so i really...
The Pentium Guy: dont...
The Pentium Guy: know..
Aurkan21: ....
The Pentium Guy: ...i....
The Pentium Guy: THIS ****** IS CONFUSING
Aurkan21: Yeah, it was weird here too.
The Pentium Guy: what happened?
Aurkan21: Something to do with a dream.
Aurkan21: There's a ,like, tiny temple attached to my house.
The Pentium Guy: leet
Aurkan21: Not the one here, but at my native place.
Aurkan21: Okay?
The Pentium Guy: k
Aurkan21: so, like, my Grandpa has a dream that tis god is unhappy coz some ritual wasn't done..
The Pentium Guy: yeah
Aurkan21: That he's going to be hurt by the god.
The Pentium Guy:
Aurkan21: so he goes in the next morning and the large spear propped up against the wall of the temple falls.
Aurkan21: It cuts him him in the leg.
The Pentium Guy: yikes
Aurkan21: It was scary..
The Pentium Guy: ...
Aurkan21: Ya, know, he was like, freaked out.
The Pentium Guy: yea
Aurkan21: TOTALLY.
Aurkan21: Chanting prayers and things for days asking for forgiveness.
The Pentium Guy: yeah
Aurkan21: ...
Aurkan21: It makes me wonder too..
The Pentium Guy: ... i dunno
The Pentium Guy: that watchmaker theory.
The Pentium Guy: im kinda leaning away from that
The Pentium Guy: see.
The Pentium Guy: i think that god speaks to us differently
The Pentium Guy: if he were to talk to me,
Aurkan21: Guides, more like?
The Pentium Guy: yeah.
Aurkan21: Not commands?
The Pentium Guy: ...yeha
The Pentium Guy: i dunno
The Pentium Guy: nono
The Pentium Guy: like
The Pentium Guy: each person
The Pentium Guy: differnetly
The Pentium Guy: like my concept of god is different from my parents
The Pentium Guy: my parents beleive in a concrete existance
The Pentium Guy: i beleive in an abstract... thing
Aurkan21: So only certain people see the CONVENTIONAL god,
The Pentium Guy: right.
Aurkan21: While others interpret his messages such that
Aurkan21: They don't SEEM to come from god?
The Pentium Guy: i dunno
The Pentium Guy: like your grandpa,
The Pentium Guy: HE sees the concrete god
Aurkan21: Yeah.
The Pentium Guy: he beleives that he can touch god through chanting prayers
Aurkan21: Agreed.
The Pentium Guy: that's his beleif
The Pentium Guy: he doesn't do it, so god gets mad..
Aurkan21: -nods-
The Pentium Guy: something like that.
The Pentium Guy: i dunno
The Pentium Guy: so to help his faith
The Pentium Guy: god does this
Aurkan21: So each one should stick to HIS own beliefs?
The Pentium Guy: and he realizes that there truly is a god, and that he was mistaken for not doing his duty
The Pentium Guy: yeah.
Aurkan21: But not falter in whatever they might be?
The Pentium Guy: ....yeah
The Pentium Guy: if god were to talk to me it wouldn't be in an idol form
The Pentium Guy: i really just refute that beleif
The Pentium Guy: you can't assign a form
Aurkan21: Hmm..
Aurkan21: True.
Aurkan21: How CAN you, anyway?
The Pentium Guy: yeah
The Pentium Guy: well that depends
The Pentium Guy: depends on the way you're brought up
The Pentium Guy: we're in a new generation
Aurkan21: According to our new theory, each one sees god differently.
The Pentium Guy: haha "our theory"
Aurkan21: What each one sees IS god's form, but not as far as another person is concerned, right?
The Pentium Guy: yeah
The Pentium Guy: ....so like
The Pentium Guy: maybe god's just there....watching over us making sure we do
The Pentium Guy: ..we do our duty
The Pentium Guy: or something
Aurkan21: Again, this 'duty' thing creep's me out.
The Pentium Guy: yeah
The Pentium Guy: me too
Aurkan21: Why does it always seem like we owe something to God?
Aurkan21: It's weird.
The Pentium Guy: ...good point
Aurkan21: I mean, if he's just wtaching over us, do we NEED to?
The Pentium Guy: hmm
The Pentium Guy: i dunno.
The Pentium Guy: ok so the thing with your grandpa, he probably devoted his life to serving god
Aurkan21: Like, ..
Aurkan21: ..
The Pentium Guy: adn god was making sure he was on the right track?
Aurkan21: Yeah.
The Pentium Guy: he wasn't meaning to hurt him
Aurkan21: Hmm..
Aurkan21: That's a new point-of-view..
The Pentium Guy: or, maybe by 'hurting' him, that was your grandpa's only way of realizing this
The Pentium Guy: any other way wouldn't have worked
Aurkan21: True.
Aurkan21: Yeah, that makes sense.
The Pentium Guy: i mean if your grandpa died from this spear, i would have probably gotten mad >)
The Pentium Guy: beucaes then this woudln't make sense
Aurkan21: I see it now.
The Pentium Guy: you do?
Aurkan21: it ALMOST killed him, but didn't.
The Pentium Guy: yeh
Aurkan21: It's significant.
The Pentium Guy: that was something that affected his life so he could get on track with his duty
Aurkan21: He was now firmly entrenched in his goal BECAUSE of the near-miss.
The Pentium Guy: oh
Aurkan21: Yeah.
The Pentium Guy: that's cool
Aurkan21: That's sensible.
The Pentium Guy: see
The Pentium Guy: if the spear thing happened to say..
The Pentium Guy: some random guy..
The Pentium Guy: uh
The Pentium Guy: a christian
The Pentium Guy: that wouldn't have worked for him
The Pentium Guy: it just woudln't make sense
The Pentium Guy: god wouldn't do things that are completely pointless
The Pentium Guy: that spear was the thing that would touch your grandpa, and him only
The Pentium Guy: but not some christian
The Pentium Guy: so i think its like a
The Pentium Guy: "i'll do whatever gets them on the right track" idea.
Aurkan21: Yeah..
The Pentium Guy: haha
The Pentium Guy: if the spear hit me,
The Pentium Guy: i would have hated god perminantely
The Pentium Guy:
Aurkan21: So what do you do to an atheist?
The Pentium Guy: THATS WHAT IM WONDERING.
The Pentium Guy: life changing experiences.
Aurkan21: ...
The Pentium Guy: i dunno.
Aurkan21: Why MAKE thae guy believe?
The Pentium Guy: right.
Aurkan21: Why not just let him continue as he is?
<This is where we decided that we were too tired to talk about this>
Sparknotes are below:
1) We started talking about how we didn't beleive in chanted/ritualized prayers
2) "All those stories...way back then if you said you were a god people would have beleived it....I think that those stories may have had some factual, historical background but not really a religious background"
3) God as a watchmaker: Did he create the world and leave it? We nodded 'no' to that.
4) God as an active participant. Does he actually guide us and help us?
5) On the lines of being an active participant: we started talking about life-changing experiences that our relatives have had.
The key:
6) Some type of conclusion: God speaks to us in a different way. There is no right or wrong concept of god. Some beleive in no god, some beleive in a concrete/traditional existance, some beleive in an abstract concept. Doesn't matter. We can't 'feel' god with our limited senses, therefore god will appeal to us in the manner in which we are most familiar to him with.
---
I know we're all from diferent religious (or non-religious) backgrounds here....and no I'm not trolling my 'beleifs'.
Right now I'm in a stage where I'm extremely confused about life and religion especially. Just looking for some comments from you guys, that's all.
-The Pentium Guy
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