GM White Collar workers: BLACK TUESDAY looming.

[Svnla]

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: Svnla

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

You are proving that you do not know anything about cars. GM is ranked very high on the quality scale, gas mileage is comparable when looking at the same class of cars, and it's the same workers.

Oh, I don't know anything eh? Then tell me Mr. Knoweverything why Consumer Reports gave GM and domestics low score on quality/gas milage?

Tell me why if they are doing such a great job <as you said>, why GM market share was the LOWEST IN THEIR HISTORY, why their stock was the lowest SINCE 1992 <it was also in 1992 that GM had similar problems, Roger Smith anyone?>

I know, CR must be biased and all those MILLIONS of Americans that bought Honda/Toyota/Nissan must be biased too. :disgust:

Apparently you haven't read the thread. The costs of supporting it's bloated pension, healthcare, and UAW plans are killing GM.

JD Powers ranked 3 domestics in the top 5 and 4 in the top 10. Half of the 14 brands that had better than industry average reliability were domestic.

See MY LINKS above this post. Shall I bring more links for you and domestic fanbois? Read them and weep. Get your head out of the sand and face reality.

If GM and domestics are doing so great as you and JD Powers say, why their market share was so low? Why are they losing BILLIONS?

 

[iamwiz82]

Originally posted by: Svnla
Talk is cheap, bring evidences and here they are:

Big 3 market share dips to ALL TIME LOW


GM cars quality

From the article you posted:

In recent surveys, GM vehicles have been at least competitive in reliability with competing vehicles. The company has also improved the design and feel of the interiors in many, but not all, of its vehicles. Still, unless customers -- many of whom have become resistant to even trying a GM vehicle -- can be attracted into showrooms the improved quality will continue to go unnoticed, Kuhlman said.

Hmm... that certainly isn't backing up your statement that quality is subpar. In fact, I'm not sure what you are trying to say by pulling up articles that say the exact opposite of what you are trying to prove.

 

[otispunkmeyer]

GM own vauxhall and saab dont they? (well the saabs are usually based on the vauxhall vectra's chassis)

hopefully another british automaker wont disappear.

 

[iamwiz82]

Originally posted by: Svnla

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: Svnla

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

You are proving that you do not know anything about cars. GM is ranked very high on the quality scale, gas mileage is comparable when looking at the same class of cars, and it's the same workers.

Oh, I don't know anything eh? Then tell me Mr. Knoweverything why Consumer Reports gave GM and domestics low score on quality/gas milage?

Tell me why if they are doing such a great job <as you said>, why GM market share was the LOWEST IN THEIR HISTORY, why their stock was the lowest SINCE 1992 <it was also in 1992 that GM had similar problems, Roger Smith anyone?>

I know, CR must be biased and all those MILLIONS of Americans that bought Honda/Toyota/Nissan must be biased too. :disgust:

Apparently you haven't read the thread. The costs of supporting it's bloated pension, healthcare, and UAW plans are killing GM.

JD Powers ranked 3 domestics in the top 5 and 4 in the top 10. Half of the 14 brands that had better than industry average reliability were domestic.

See MY LINKS above this post. Shall I bring more links for you and domestic fanbois? Read them and weep. Get your head out of the sand and face reality.

If GM and domestics are doing so great as you and JD Powers say, why their market share was so low? Why are they losing BILLIONS?

READ THE FREAKING ARITCLE! It said that they cannot get people in the showroom to show that the cars have the quality.

BTW, I'm not a domestic fanboy, 2 of our last 4 cars were foreign. I just get annoyed when people talk about GM as if they understand what is going on.

 

[Accipiter22]

Originally posted by: Svnla

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

You are proving that you do not know anything about cars. GM is ranked very high on the quality scale, gas mileage is comparable when looking at the same class of cars, and it's the same workers.

Oh, I don't know anything eh? Then tell me Mr. Knoweverything why Consumer Reports gave GM and domestics low score on quality/gas milage?

Tell me why if they are doing such a great job <as you said>, why GM market share was the LOWEST IN THEIR HISTORY, why their stock was the lowest SINCE 1992 <it was also in 1992 that GM had similar problems, Roger Smith anyone?>

I know, CR must be biased and all those MILLIONS of Americans that bought Honda/Toyota/Nissan must be biased too. :disgust:

another thing, CR's ratings are broadly based on surveys from owners, so it's not like it's one or two people that like domestics less...it's 10's of thousands maybe 100's of thousands of consumers. Also, isn't GM KNOWN for not getting great gas mileage on their 4-cylanders, among other things? I've got a Malibu, which I love btw, but the gas mileage on the 4 cylander I'm driving has never been above 21 mpg....i'm actually around 18 right now. I had a 3.8L Olds Cutlass Ciera Brougham that got 17.....

 

[Svnla]

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: Svnla
Talk is cheap, bring evidences and here they are:

Big 3 market share dips to ALL TIME LOW


GM cars quality

From the article you posted:

In recent surveys, GM vehicles have been at least competitive in reliability with competing vehicles. The company has also improved the design and feel of the interiors in many, but not all, of its vehicles. Still, unless customers -- many of whom have become resistant to even trying a GM vehicle -- can be attracted into showrooms the improved quality will continue to go unnoticed, Kuhlman said.

Hmm... that certainly isn't backing up your statement that quality is subpar. In fact, I'm not sure what you are trying to say by pulling up articles that say the exact opposite of what you are trying to prove.

You still haven't answer my questions. If GM is doing so great in quality and gas milage, why they are losing BILLIONS and why their market share was the LOWEST in their history? LOL

 

[thedarkwolf]

Originally posted by: ValkyrieofHouston

Originally posted by: CVSiN

Originally posted by: Cattlegod
32% of american white collar jobs lost from GM since 2000.

Thanks for buying toyota guys.

hey If GM made a car as good as a toyota instead fo the garrbage they do produce...

and on top fo that killed the Trans Am and the Camaro.. studid fvcks...

yah keep building those 20 ton gas eating sloburbans... and taHOEs and that Fugly avalanche.. whomever is runnign GM has run the company into the ground..

Agreed, GM is a very poorly run company.. and my question is why don't they cut back on the Executive salaries and hire a better CEO to run that company? They may be laying off white collar workers but not the top paid execs. It is my understanding that overall car sales across the country have maintained and done well.

Lets see cut executive salaries and hire better ones hmmmmm. How the hell do they do that? You think John Smith super exectutive is going to quit his 30 million dollar a year job to go run GM and make 3 million?

 

[otispunkmeyer]

Originally posted by: TerryMathews

Originally posted by: Cattlegod
32% of american white collar jobs lost from GM since 2000.

Thanks for buying toyota guys.

Oh yeah, like it's Toyota's fault that GM is a poorly run company.

not to mention alot of GM's cars are nasty. chevy bough deawoo (sp?)( rubbish malaysian outfit who build cars for the sake of making money and as such produce some really really ****** horrible cars) and all theyve done is just stick a chevy badge over the deawoo badge.

they are nasty pieces of work those cars.

plus i think big fat boy SUV's arent as popular anymore.

 

[iamwiz82]

Originally posted by: Svnla

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: Svnla
Talk is cheap, bring evidences and here they are:

Big 3 market share dips to ALL TIME LOW


GM cars quality

From the article you posted:

In recent surveys, GM vehicles have been at least competitive in reliability with competing vehicles. The company has also improved the design and feel of the interiors in many, but not all, of its vehicles. Still, unless customers -- many of whom have become resistant to even trying a GM vehicle -- can be attracted into showrooms the improved quality will continue to go unnoticed, Kuhlman said.

Hmm... that certainly isn't backing up your statement that quality is subpar. In fact, I'm not sure what you are trying to say by pulling up articles that say the exact opposite of what you are trying to prove.

You still haven't answer my questions. If GM is doing so great in quality and gas milage, why they are losing BILLIONS and why their market share was the LOWEST in their history? LOL

I did, but you are too slowminded to notice.

Apparently you haven't read the thread. The costs of supporting it's bloated pension, healthcare, and UAW plans are killing GM.

GM sold many many, many, more cars than Toyota or Honda last year. But it still wasn't enough to cover their legacy costs.

 

[Jzero]

Originally posted by: Svnla

You still haven't answer my questions. If GM is doing so great in quality and gas milage, why they are losing BILLIONS and why their market share was the LOWEST in their history? LOL

Yes, he did answer your questions. Car buyers are extremely gun shy. You have one bad experience with one car or another, you never buy another, and you tell all your friends. Hyundai is STILL trying to climb out of the whole they dug even before GM dug theirs.

Their market share is off because of perception, not any actual problem with the cars.

Their monetary losses are because of their astronomical overhead.

 

[iamwiz82]

Originally posted by: otispunkmeyer

plus i think big fat boy SUV's arent as popular anymore.

Incorrect, the Tahoe/Yukon is exploding, sales-wise. They moved just under 20,000 units last month. GM banks on SUVs because that is where the profit margin is. Do you really think that those things cost anywhere near $40,000 to make?

GM isn't going to snub $800,000,000 in sales per month because the media is saying SUV sales are down.

 

[OpenThirdEye]

Originally posted by: chambersc

Originally posted by: Cattlegod
32% of american white collar jobs lost from GM since 2000.

Thanks for buying toyota guys.

Bought VW and proud of it. In a free market, if a company cannot compete, it shouldn't be propped up no matter how detremental to the economy. Will continue to assert my economic freedom to get more competition, better products, and more services with pleasure.

Indeed

<--Has an 06 VW GTI (OH SNAP!)

 

[Svnla]

No one is disputed that GM and domestics are better than they used to be. But if you think all GM have to do is to cut costs will get them back to health, then I have some big mansions down here in the bayou that I can sell for you cheap.

Edit: I have nothing agaist GM and domestics. But I don't fell that I HAVE TO buy domestic just because I have to for some patriot reasons. I want the best bang for my buck and as of right now, GM and domestics are not there yet.

 

[BMdoobieW]

Originally posted by: Cattlegod
32% of american white collar jobs lost from GM since 2000.

Thanks for buying ______ guys.

Sorry, the Mazda3s was clearly superior to the Cobalt. When it comes time for my next car, if GM makes the best car in the class, then I will buy a GM.

 

[Jzero]

Originally posted by: Svnla
No one is disputed that GM and domestics are better than they used to be. But if you think all GM have to do is to cut costs will get them back to health, then I have some big mansions down here in the bayou that I can sell for you cheap.

Actually, in a nutshell, that's pretty much all they need to do. And it's pretty much impossible.

 

[Accipiter22]

Originally posted by: BMdoobieW

Originally posted by: Cattlegod
32% of american white collar jobs lost from GM since 2000.

Thanks for buying ______ guys.

Sorry, the Mazda3s was clearly superior to the Cobalt. When it comes time for my next car, if GM makes the best car in the class, then I will buy a GM.

word. It's not that GM's are as horrid as they used to be, they get good marks on some of their vehicles on most reviews I've read. It's just that thy're not AT the top. That and they have an awful awful legacy to overcome. I got the malibu because it was rated well, and it cost an absolute boatload less (It cost about 9,500, 25k miles on it) than anything comparable.

 

[Svnla]

Originally posted by: BMdoobieW
.......... When it comes time for my next car, if GM makes the best car in the class, then I will buy a GM.

I couldn't say any better. I want the best bang for my bucks and let the best company wins, domestics or imports.

Edit: For those of you that think I don't know GM, I worked along side with GM folks <UAW> for almost 10 years <truck and SUV line> straight out of college. After what I saw with my own eyes on work ethics and quality control, it will be a loooong time before I want to pay tens of thousands for GM vehicles.

 

[dandruff]

:laugh:

 

[Svnla]

Originally posted by: Jzero

Originally posted by: Svnla
No one is disputed that GM and domestics are better than they used to be. But if you think all GM have to do is to cut costs will get them back to health, then I have some big mansions down here in the bayou that I can sell for you cheap.

Actually, in a nutshell, that's pretty much all they need to do. And it's pretty much impossible.

Oh gosh, please by all mean, you and Wiz need to show Waggoner how simple it is to correct their fortune. <sarcasm>

 

[Jzero]

Originally posted by: Svnla

Originally posted by: Jzero

Originally posted by: Svnla
No one is disputed that GM and domestics are better than they used to be. But if you think all GM have to do is to cut costs will get them back to health, then I have some big mansions down here in the bayou that I can sell for you cheap.

Actually, in a nutshell, that's pretty much all they need to do. And it's pretty much impossible.

Oh gosh, please by all mean, you and Wiz need to show Waggoner how simple it is to correct their fortune. <sarcasm>

Bolded the relevant text for you, simple Waggoner.

 

[iamwiz82]

Originally posted by: Svnla

Originally posted by: Jzero

Originally posted by: Svnla
No one is disputed that GM and domestics are better than they used to be. But if you think all GM have to do is to cut costs will get them back to health, then I have some big mansions down here in the bayou that I can sell for you cheap.

Actually, in a nutshell, that's pretty much all they need to do. And it's pretty much impossible.

Oh gosh, please by all mean, you and Wiz need to show Waggoner how simple it is to correct their fortune. <sarcasm>

How? They cannot pull the UAW out, they cannot cut pensions, they cannot cut healthcare, they cannot fire the ones dragging down the ship.

Plus, the money they are throwing at that stuff is being siphoned out of R&D. The price of their cars has to stay competitive or they will no be purchased, but the cost to manufacture is obscenely high because of those non-manufacturing debts. So they have to sell the low end cars at razor thin profits or they can skimp on parts that do not affect vehicle reliability.

 

[iamwiz82]

Originally posted by: Svnla

Originally posted by: BMdoobieW
.......... When it comes time for my next car, if GM makes the best car in the class, then I will buy a GM.

I couldn't say any better. I want the best bang for my bucks and let the best company wins, domestics or imports.

Edit: For those of you that think I don't know GM, I worked along side with GM folks <UAW> for almost 10 years <truck and SUV line> straight out of college. After what I saw with my own eyes on work ethics and quality control, it will be a loooong time before I want to pay tens of thousands for GM vehicles.

I agree with you on the work ethic thing. Why would someone try if they don't have any fear of losing their job or being reprimanded?

 

[AMDZen]

Originally posted by: Cattlegod
32% of american white collar jobs lost from GM since 2000.

Thanks for buying toyota guys.

THis whole thing is actually the fault of the union. They faught for such outrageous benefits for so long, and GM caved for so long that GM eventually had to do what they have to do.

If the employees weren't so greedy GM would have been able to afford to keep these people, these workers sealed their own fate by running and supporting a union that put health benefits ahead of jobs.

 

[AMDZen]

Originally posted by: Svnla

Originally posted by: Cattlegod
32% of american white collar jobs lost from GM since 2000.

Thanks for buying toyota guys.

You are very welcome. I am driving Honda in the last 15 years.

I could drive GM/domestics but why? Why do I have to put up with shoddy workmanship, poor gas milage, and terrible reliability/quality?

GM/domestic's worse enemy is GM/domestic itself.

You forgot to mention the hidiously pathetic resale value of GM versus Honda.

I bought a 1999 Honda Civic Si 4 years ago next Month. It had 45000 miles on it, and I paid $12,500 for it. I could sell it today for $10,000 easy, with 75000 miles on it.

Then there is my moms Impala. Which is worth about $13,000 now, 2 years ago it was $20,000.

 

[Svnla]

Originally posted by: iamwiz82
How? They cannot pull the UAW out, they cannot cut pensions, they cannot cut healthcare, they cannot fire the ones dragging down the ship.

Plus, the money they are throwing at that stuff is being siphoned out of R&D. The price of their cars has to stay competitive or they will no be purchased, but the cost to manufacture is obscenely high because of those non-manufacturing debts. So they have to sell the low end cars at razor thin profits or they can skimp on parts that do not affect vehicle reliability.

They could, as the last resort, declare bankruptcy so everything is null and void. Impossible you say? Fortune magazine said it could happend. Interesting article.

GM could face bankruptcy down the road

Quote:

-----------------------------
In all that GM is doing, there is a bleak awareness that no companies have ever turned around because of cost cutting alone. The essential partner is revenue growth--and as those losses in market share show, that has been the crucible for GM. In product design, it lost the magic long ago. "They need irresistibility and head-turners," says one car buff, "and they haven't had them."
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