GM: We're sorry, we screwed the pooch before, we know it.

[Budmantom]

No it's time for our elected officials to do the same.

 

[Specop 007]

Screw GM, screw the unions and screw the politicians who want to give them tax money.

 

[MikeMike]

hilarious...

those of you crowing over the euro models..

The Fiesta is coming in 2010 i believe
The Insignia is coming in 2011 i believe, as the Aura replacement
The Astra is ALREADY here...
The Opel GT... holy dear god are you that ignorant? Saturn Sky... look it up.
The Meriva, supposedly the next one was to come to the U.S. but plans were cancelled/up in the air.

 

[Ktulu]

Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE
hilarious...

those of you crowing over the euro models..

The Fiesta is coming in 2010 i believe
The Insignia is coming in 2011 i believe, as the Aura replacement
The Astra is ALREADY here...
The Opel GT... holy dear god are you that ignorant? Saturn Sky... look it up.
The Meriva, supposedly the next one was to come to the U.S. but plans were cancelled/up in the air.

This is P&N not the Garage. What do you expect?

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE
hilarious...

those of you crowing over the euro models..

The Fiesta is coming in 2010 i believe
The Insignia is coming in 2011 i believe, as the Aura replacement
The Astra is ALREADY here...
The Opel GT... holy dear god are you that ignorant? Saturn Sky... look it up.
The Meriva, supposedly the next one was to come to the U.S. but plans were cancelled/up in the air.

So lets see....

1) Not here
2) Not here
3) Available.
4) Available under a different name
5) Cancelled

Huh. 2/5. Both of which are from the same manufacturer. Well shit I'm sold!! We have all the European models.......

 

[MovingTarget]

That letter may have been from 2003, but as anyone who has test-driven or bought a GM vehicle lately can definitely see the improvement in the quality/design of their cars. I'd say that they have been doing well on that front.

 

[MikeMike]

the letter itself wasnt from 03, the letter was from 2 days ago, but you see the article is from 03 when they did something similar.

and specop... the insignia came out THIS YEAR in europe, won coty i believe as well...
fiesta is the same way, its all new in europe this year...

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE
hilarious...

those of you crowing over the euro models..

The Fiesta is coming in 2010 i believe
The Insignia is coming in 2011 i believe, as the Aura replacement
The Astra is ALREADY here...
The Opel GT... holy dear god are you that ignorant? Saturn Sky... look it up.
The Meriva, supposedly the next one was to come to the U.S. but plans were cancelled/up in the air.

I wish I could wait for the Fiesta or Insignia but my VW broke the camel's back and crossed the line in the sand for the last time. I'm starting serious evaluation this Friday.

 

[DukeN]

Robor,

Just buy a decent Toyota or Nissan and stop the bleeding. I'd recommend one of their certified used vehicles, depending on what you're looking for.

 

[evident]

one honda to rule them all

 

[postmortemIA]

Originally posted by: evident
one honda to rule them all

indeed, if they would sell "big" three for $1 each to big three Japanese, they would be profitable within 5 yrs.

 

[MikeMike]

Originally posted by: postmortemIA

Originally posted by: evident
one honda to rule them all

indeed, if they would sell "big" three for $1 each to big three Japanese, they would be profitable within 5 yrs.

bwahahahah...

and you dont think their current mgmt will do that in 5 yrs from now?

 

[manowar821]

Here we goooo... Enjoy this picture. It sums up nicely what I think of all this bullshit.

http://img368.imageshack.us/im...481/thebigthreeez0.png

 

[sportage]

I GOT IT!!!!! THE ANSWER!!!!
You know all those unsold new suv's, trucks and cars sitting in the car lots all over America???
Well.. pull them back into the plant, dismantle them, take the usable good parts (doors, frame, tires, seats) and re assemble with the addition of a fuel efficient motor. 80% of the work is done. The hardware is already there. Just add a new power system, stir, and there you are. A fuel efficient American car.

 

[postmortemIA]

Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE

Originally posted by: postmortemIA

Originally posted by: evident
one honda to rule them all

indeed, if they would sell "big" three for $1 each to big three Japanese, they would be profitable within 5 yrs.

bwahahahah...

and you dont think their current mgmt will do that in 5 yrs from now?

let's be real, they are never gonna be profitable under current management.

Good question is why Japanese and Koreans are profitable when they have to import into country?

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Slew Foot
Looks like the Big 3 have the first $15 billion on the way

Only GM and Chrysler got the $15 Billion.

Ford doesn't want to be controlled by the Car Czar.

What will the Car Czar really do to GM & Chrysler?

Who is the Car Czar and what is his qualifications?

How much is the Car Czar getting paid?

Is he getting multi-millions in bonuses?

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Robor

I wish I could wait for the Fiesta or Insignia but my VW broke the camel's back and crossed the line in the sand for the last time.

I'm starting serious evaluation this Friday.

VW is building a massive plant near Chatanooga as we speak.

 

[Ktulu]

Originally posted by: sportage
I GOT IT!!!!! THE ANSWER!!!!
You know all those unsold new suv's, trucks and cars sitting in the car lots all over America???
Well.. pull them back into the plant, dismantle them, take the usable good parts (doors, frame, tires, seats) and re assemble with the addition of a fuel efficient motor. 80% of the work is done. The hardware is already there. Just add a new power system, stir, and there you are. A fuel efficient American car.

See, what you don't seem to understand is that GM and Ford have extremely fuel effecient cars and trucks more efficient in fact than the Japanese alot of the time. The ONLY THING missing is a small compact hybrid for their public image. This has nothing to do with fuel economy or sales, this is everything to do with the failing economy, failed labor contracts and failed management.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: DukeN
Robor,

Just buy a decent Toyota or Nissan and stop the bleeding. I'd recommend one of their certified used vehicles, depending on what you're looking for.

Yep... I'm going to 'stop the bleeding' soon. Planning to go out tomorrow and look at a lot of models in person.

Re: Certified Used... We were considering a that option when we got my wife's Mazda3. We looked at Honda, Toyota, Mazda, etc and found the savings wasn't that significant. A new Civic was say $20K out the door and a 3 year old similar equipped Civic was $15K. Corolla was about the same. We settled on the 5 door Mazda3 on versatility and ratings and don't have a single regret. Decent pickup, good gas mileage, and so far so good on problems (unlike many trips to the dealer with my GTI).

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE

So GM admits to the U.S. that they have screwed the pooch in the past, they promise to do things better

The problem is they say pretty much that exact same thing every model year. =)

At some point a long time ago, people stopped listening.

 

[dmcowen674]

A lot of talk about Saturn.

Looks like it will be shut down.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
A lot of talk about Saturn.

Looks like it will be shut down.

But what about the Astra? I was considering it...

 

[Robor]

Bump... Any news? I spent Fri and Sat looking for a 'budget' hatchback and looking for feedback here to help with a decision...

***EDIT -- I wrote up a long edit to this and then I realized it's pretty much OT and probably belonged in 'The Garage' so I posted it there instead. Here's the... LINK

 

[chess9]

Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE
http://gmfactsandfiction.com/w...ss-an-final-120408.pdf

the letter^

an article about it.

Dear Customer, G.M. Says, We've Improved
New York Times May 29, 2003
By DANNY HAKIM

DETROIT, May 28 - General Motors is ready to try the redemption card.

After lagging in quality rankings for years and long making cars that all looked alike, the company is preparing a provocative corporate image campaign that says it has turned over a new leaf and wants another chance.

Are you Honda-Toyota-Volkswagen drivers ready to oblige?

Redemption chic, of course, is in full bloom, with everyone from the Dixie Chicks to wayward college coaches to Winona Ryder trying it on. Now comes G.M., the largest auto maker in the world, though one whose United States market share has been dwindling for decades.

"The longest road in the world," reads the text of the first ad from the campaign, "is the road to redemption."

The ad, which will make its debut in magazines next month, is intended to be the first in a series. The text appears over a darkly clouded sky. Below, a road twists off toward a burst of sunlight poking through clouds.

On the facing page there is more text, interspersed with a few pictures of some of G.M.'s more exotic vehicles.

"Thirty years ago, G.M. quality was the best in the world," the ad says. "Twenty years ago, it wasn't." The last decade has seen "our long journey back," with much time spent "breaking out of our own bureaucratic gridlock" while learning "some humbling lessons." As the company has been duly chastened, things have turned around, readers are told.

"With quality at the core of our values, we're building the best cars and trucks in our history."

Could this be a made-for-TV movie or what!

The ads are by the General Motors corporate agency, the Troy, Mich., office of McCann-Erickson Worldwide Advertising, part of the McCann-Erickson World Group division of the Interpublic Group of Companies. The campaign will tackle different topics, like G.M.'s gains in short- and long-term quality rankings and its engine and environmental performance. (The environmental ads will surely be read with interest by groups like the Sierra Club, which is planning a campaign of its own against G.M.'s Hummer brand.)

"The message is simple," said Gary Cowger, the president of G.M.'s North American operations and the primary architect of the strategy. "We may not have done everything right in the past, but we've learned from it."

"There still is an important group of consumers who have stopped listening to us," he added.

John Middlebrook, G.M.'s vice president for marketing and advertising, said, "We're dealing with close to half of the market that doesn't consider us, or put us in the reject pile." He described the campaign as "5 percent mea culpa, 95 percent what's good about G.M."

Mr. Cowger said he was inspired by General Electric's "We bring good things to life" campaigns. He said G.M.'s new effort would take a very different tack from normal "call to action" advertising. G.M.'s current campaign, for example, focuses on getting people into showrooms right away by enticing them with big discounts.

"This is more relaxed," Mr. Cowger said, adding that it was a way to reintroduce buyers to the company.


So will it work?

"I have serious doubts," said Peter DeLorenzo, a Detroit advertising veteran who consults for DaimlerChrysler. "On the one hand, it's commendable they're admitting that in the past they built poor-quality vehicles."

"But I don't think it'll fly," he said, because the campaign is undercut by G.M.'s huge push to offer discounts.

"Now they're turning around and saying, well, we made mistakes, but you need to look at our products because we're making them better," he said.

José Rosa, a former G.M. marketer who is now a professor at Case Western Reserve University, said, "It's an interesting play. Let's be up front and honest."

"They're saying they've seen the light," he added. "But what also has to be offered, you have to have cool cars. You have to have cars that when people go in, they say, yes, this reflects me."

Clive Chajet, founder of the Chajet Consultancy, a corporate identity specialist, was also skeptical. G.M., he said, "must have felt or known that the image of General Motors was dreadful in order to take such a step."

He also was doubtful about the focus on G.M. as a corporation, because it is not itself a brand (like Ford or G.E.) and has little resonance with consumers.

"If they wanted to leverage the General Motors corporate image for the benefit of the brands, they should say only the most positive statements about it instead of digging up negatives," he said.

G.M. has made considerable strides in improving manufacturing efficiencies and quality rankings. In J. D. Power's most recent initial quality survey, the company ranked below Toyota, Porsche, BMW and Honda but ahead of everyone else, including the Ford Motor Company, DaimlerChrysler, Nissan and Volkswagen. The company's Cadillac division even ranked as the second-best brand in the industry, behind Lexus - though its Hummer brand came in dead last.

For many noncustomers, though, G.M. cars and trucks still leave much to be desired. David De Wald, a 34-year-old health and wellness program manager at Electronic Arts in northern California, is a car enthusiast, but he sticks to European cars and even stopped buying Saabs when G.M. bought the company.

Why?

Because they just don't seem as imbued with quality, he said.

"A perfect example is the Escalade," he said. The Cadillac Escalade is a sport utility vehicle that has been popular with athletes and rappers. "It's selling well and basically on the merits of it as a status symbol. But I don't know how anyone could sit behind the wheel of an Escalade and then behind a BMW X5, or the Porsche Cayenne, or even the new Range Rover, and think the Escalade is worth $50,000."

So GM admits to the U.S. that they have screwed the pooch in the past, they promise to do things better and talk about their current top of the line product... Interesting

First of all, the ad is a lie. GM was making horrible cars in the 1950's and 1960's. The difference is the Japanese didn't start beating them at the quality and innovation game until the 1980's. How easily we forgot "Unsafe At Any Speed".

Forty to Fifty years of hosing consumers is an amazing record of incompetence and blind allegiance.

-Robert

 

[MichaelD]

Originally posted by: manowar821
Here we goooo... Enjoy this picture. It sums up nicely what I think of all this bullshit.

http://img368.imageshack.us/im...481/thebigthreeez0.png

That absolutely tells it like it is. I've printed it out and hung it in the break room. Oh, it's not gonna go over well, but I don't care!