GM sued over automobile 'black boxes'

[bonkers325]

General Motors is battling a lawsuit alleging that it violates customer privacy by installing a ''black box'' in its vehicles to record critical data about speed, braking, and seat belt use, in the moments before a crash. The suit, which seeks class-action status, alleges that the world's largest automaker never told motorists about the devices, known as sensing diagnostic modules (SDM). GM says SDMs, which are part of the air-bag systems, help it design safer cars and aid investigators in reconstructing accidents. But the complaint claims GM failed to inform motorists about the existence of the devices or what they do.


anybody own one of these babies

cheers,
bonkers325

 

[Double Trouble]

And they should be sued... Companies seem to think only their information is valuable. They don't want you to take their information without compensation and authorization, but it's ok to take your information without your knowledge. I don't care why they did it (to make better cars or not), they should ask for permission first, and only then take any kind of data from the consumer.

 

[skywhr]

Maybe its me but I knew that cars had these things in them? Im not super intelligent, sounds to me its another frivolous lawsuit. I dont even drive a GM and I knew about this. The info is used for good purposes, why should GM pay becuase your to stupid to know anything at all about your vehicle.

Or is this a case of, this thing proved that the accident was my fault type stuff?

Any links to articles or anything???

 

[stonerdave]

Yeah, this was on a dateline a while back. A 'vette owner was furious to find his $50K convertible had one of these, without his knowledge (poor baby!).

Anyway, here's a link....

http://www.c5-corvette.com/gm_black_box.htm

 

[PG]

Dateline? What network was this? Aren't these the same people faked the story on the Chevy pickups? If so, I wouldn't believe a word they said. It's pretty obvious that they are rabidly attacking GM.

 

[rpaller]

As long as GM does not provide this information to incriminate you, who cares. The "black box" is there for R&D and I think this is just another frivilous lawsuit out to make a quick buck.

 

[StageLeft]

It is another stupid lawsuit. THey aren't taking your home address and anual income to target you for annoying advertising...they're using information from your car to aid in R&D which will eventually help you because they make the cars safer. I think blackboxes are a great idea in cars. I couldn't care less if I knew about it or not - how does it possibly do anything negative to me knowing that the car's information will be taken at time of accident?

 

[LadyJessica]

I think Boeing should take the black boxes out of their planes because it's not fair to the pilot.

 

[Optimus]

Unless these things sudennly start getting subpoenaed in court as evidence, then I don't mind GM trying to make safer cars.
My 2000 Pontiac Grand Am probably has one...

 

[Static911]

Only in America can somebody sue for anything....


Static911

 

[StageLeft]

I'm going to sue the people who sue GM for making GM take the blackboxes out!

 

[Double Trouble]

Fact is, neither you nor I really know what GM is doing with the information, and the purpose of it is irrelevant -- the bottom line is they are taking information that belongs to me without my consent. I'll be willing to bet that GM will lose this one, and be forced to allow people to have GM remove this device from their cars.

It's very similar to companies installing spyware on your PC to track your surfing and purchasing habits. Does it change your life any? No. Does that make it ok for them to take information from you without your consent? Nope.

 

[BoberFett]

tagej

Auto companies need to be paranoid. Every time there's a fatal car crash, some lawyer somewhere is trying to figure out how to soak the manufacturers of the cars involved for millions. If it's something that they do every time you bring the car in for some work, that would be an invasion of privacy. But if the information is only retrieved as the result of a crash, it's no different than measuring skid marks to determine speed.

 

[StageLeft]

tagej

No, it isn't like getting your purchasing habits at all. Getting those is information about _you_ and what _you_ do. All this is is information about what your _car_ does - or what you did with it when you rammed into something. Getting info about your purchasing habits has the potential to be abused; this information does not have the potential to be abused because it could be posted anywhere in the world and there is nothing problematic that could happen to you.

Really, do you consider that getting the info about your car's speed at the time of an impact is invading your privacy? Do you consider when a cop radar's your car for speed an invasion of privacy?

 

[PG]

I agree with Skoorb. There isn't any personal info that can be used and abused. This can only benefit car design and save lives in the future.

 

[skywhr]

it would be a travesty, but what else is new.

 

[Kilgor]

Actually it might just help you. In case the vehicle has been wrecked then repaired. Maybe you could take it to the GM dealership and have it checked to see if it has been in a collision.

 

[vi edit]

I just can't believe some people. Any see the movie Days of Thunder? You know when Tom Cruise ran the engine to redline and blew it out, and then Harry hit that little button above the tach to check to see what the RPM's at the time of the engine blowout?

I think it's something like that.

Hell, I can see a lot of potential with this device.

1) Offer reduced insurance rates if you decide to have it included on your vehicle.
- I say this because you can offer to submit your vehicles data at the time of the crash as evidence of fault/or lack there of. This would be far more accurate than recording skid marks as Bober said. You could use it as evidence that you weren't the one speeding.

2) Cheaper maintance contracts/warranty
- I say this because a shop tech can look at the RPM's at the time of engine failure (ah la days of thunder) and determine what was going on. You could then diagnose the break down as driver induced or malfunction on the vehicle. This could reduce warranty costs for those who don't abuse their vehicles.

As for the lawsuit - I see this as no diffent than those who fight to the death to get out of a speeding ticket that they know they deserve. They are scared that their information at the time of a crash could be used against them.

I think GM is fine in recording the information for their own uses, but they shouldn't be allowed to submit them to courts/insurance companies....yet...well, at least not without the vehicles owners' conscent.

I agree that they don't have any right to use the info against the vehicle owner at this time, but in the future I see that it could be.

 

[skywhr]

I hate to tell you guys this but GM isnt the only car manufacturer who uses these things and its nothing new. My pontiac 6000 had a primitive version of this is it and it was an 84-89 I dont remember. I have it on good authority that ford uses them also. They dont contain info about you! They record information at the time of an accident. Speed, braking, seatbelt that kind of stuff.

 

[StageLeft]

Damn vi_edit Thats a damn good idea - only problem is that what happens if insurance does find you were doing 90mph at time of crash?

I think this could help reduce insurance rates in young drivers by a wild amount - since most of our accidents are caused by going too damn fast.

 

[LadyJessica]

Why were you doing 90mph and crashing in the first place?

 

[StageLeft]

Um, the 90mph part was the fun part, and then the crash was the unfun part. I haven't done it myself, but its happened before..

 

[Double Trouble]

<<No, it isn't like getting your purchasing habits at all. Getting those is information about _you_ and what _you_ do. All this is is information about what your _car_ does - or what you did with it when you rammed into something. >>

No, you don't know what information is being collected. For all you know, it could indeed be information about what you do, such as how many miles you put on your car per day, how far your commute to work is etc etc. Does it matter that GM knows that? Nope, I don't care if they know that. Does that mean it's ok for them to gather? Nope. What if, for example, they measure how many times you travel faster than 65 MPH and then work with your insurance company to jack up your rates (even if you've had no accidents)?

The point is that if they want that information, and there is a legitimate reason for collecting it, they have to do the same thing websites should do: Tell the consumer exactly what is being collected, what is done with it, what it's used for, and get permission. Most people will not mind at all that the information is being collected (as I would not), but I mind them TAKING the information without my permission or knowledge.

 

[Looney]

First off, they don't need a device to say how fast you were going, if you were wearing a seatbelt, or if you'd brake when you crashed, so if you did get in an accident, the insurance company/law can find that out in other ways.

But this DOES help you... if you get in a crash, did you really apply the brakes, or did it fail (hard to prove this if the braking system gets messed in the crash as well)... not to mention the future R&amp;D that this could provide.

 

[Deicide]

tagej:

Do you actually know whats being reported in the black boxes at the time of collision? It sounds like your making up a bunch of wild ideas about what they COULD be doing. Why don't you ask a repairman/technician about whats actually recorded in these boxes, and then come back and tell us whats going on.