I will, and I have. However, cars are more important. I know that Sony products have average reliability (see, I'm not a Japanese nut), but I can't buy another brand of PS2, so I buy one anyway knowing that it'll likely have issues in 5 years. Cars are also a higher financial investment and there's a great deal of safety involved. Reliability is absolute.
There's 5 hondas in my immediate family (parents, siblings). They always work. All they need is the typical oil change and whatnot.
With the Mercury Sable, we had the transmission go out on the highway (that was REAL fun), the air conditioner going out several times in one year, the radiator going out, brakes having issues, etc. That's crap for a 6 year old car.
My brother used to have a 94" Jeep. Something with the brakes malfunctioned and it locked up and got itself totaled into a brick sign. Glad it didn't take my brother with him.
So after we gave the American car companies a shot, we began to study the reliability of cars.
We've had no problems with Honda, and the vast majority of other consumers have not either.
We had problems with American cars (Ford, GM), and a significant amount of other consumers did too.
I'd say that's quite fair in judgement.
I'm not saying that there aren't long lasting American cars out there, but that there's a significant amount that do not last. Look at a consumer reports and see what I'm talking about.
The article you linked is about # of initial problems. Consumer reports agrees with this data. Many American cars have excellent initial reliability. However, look 10 years back.
It's not some trend that the new cars are actually going to be more reliable than the earlier models. Look at a CR from 2000. The American cars in there are excellent. But according to a new CR, they have issues.
Yes, I'm sure all the people's submissions have been altered or tampered with. :rolleeyes
the toyota you see in united states is made in united states, making it "an american car"
lexus however, is made in japan. You can't compare japanese made quality with american quality.
toyota is the largest car maker in the world, honda isn't even close at being its size.
however, honda has its amount of share in the market.
acura of course is honda made in japan. the good sportscar you see (s2k, supra, nsx, etc..) are all made in japan.
lexus however, is made in japan. You can't compare japanese made quality with american quality.
toyota is the largest car maker in the world, honda isn't even close at being its size.
however, honda has its amount of share in the market.
acura of course is honda made in japan. the good sportscar you see (s2k, supra, nsx, etc..) are all made in japan.
It's not that we can't make a car as well as the Japanese. It's a work ethic thing. Toyota/Honda don't hire lazy Union workers.
I can see your disliking for American cars, which is understandable. The consumers I have met that post crap like "Toyotas are the best, I never have to do any work on them. Same thing with Hondas." What's funny is the Honda technician that I worked for completely disagrees with this. He hates Hondas. He's owned 4 of them in 4 years, works on them daily. And swears never again.
Funny...every technician I've ever met says teh same thing. I never got to know anybody in the other companies (GM, Toyota, Ford) as well as I did the Honda. But they all have the same thing.
No, I never said that the people's submissions are tampered with. I said that Consumer Reports (the guys who do the testing) are full of $hit.
As for my family, we've had seven American cars now. Only one of them is a POS. (Cadilac Catera which isn't even made by GM).
We have a DC car, which is notoriously 'unreliable' supposedly. Yet it's my dad's workhorse for the past 8 years. Bought brand new ('98 Grand Voyager). Hauling all his construction (that's right construction) equipment around. His parnter has the same car in the same year (except it's a dodge). THat has 230,000 mi as of 6 months ago!!!
shilala
Lifer
- Oct 5, 2004
- 11,437
- 1
- 76
Yes, it must be the workers.
How about giving credit where credit is due?
Toyota and Honda employ a business model that takes advantage of undereducated workers in economically depressed areas as to leverage lower wages into selling a less costly vehicle that further undermines the standard of living in America.
The sad thing is that most of the hammerheads around here buy into this business model because they're entirely too simple to see that the effect it has on wages will eventually wash right on down to them.
there are 20,730 people registered on that forum. do you think there are only 20,730 lexus owners in the world?
as opposed to nice American companies who outsource everything to a 2 dollar a day place or build cars in Mexico in order to sell them back to the US. I rather have the jobs here in the US.
what you guys don't understand is the engineering is not outsourced like that. the only work that is outsourced is the labor in an attempt to advert the UAW.
Last time I bought an American brand vehicle was 22 years ago. My 13 year old Honda is going strong and my 2001 Toyota truck had a recall that took 10 minutes to fix. I think I'll be sticking with the Japanese brands for now.
redgtxdi
Diamond Member
- Jun 23, 2004
- 5,464
- 8
- 81
I'm not gonna read thru the whole post to find out if this was said.........but........
It's certainly not the U.S. carmakers the Japanese need to be worried about.....(Toyota in particular whose fleet is DEFINITELY suffering in fit/finish).........it's the KOREANS!!!!!!!!!!!!
Watch out Toyota, here comes Hyundai/Kia.....(and Toyota knows it too)
Of all the Toyota's my dad's company and my company have gone thru in the last several years, I can tell you honestly that circa 2000 was when the cars headed downhill. I don't know what the deal is, but if you don't believe me, I'll offer you a heads up here, if only in the fit & finish dept.
Go to your local Toyota dealer and look the exterior seams and interior seams over very well. (Don't worry.....you won't miss it 'cuz it's gonna catch your attention). You'll notice that things are not good in this dept.
Then, take a walk over to Nissan, Mazda, then later go to Hyundai/Kia and report back what you find.
The results will probably shock die hard Toyota lovers......(like myself). I'm not slamming Toyota for no reason. I love their cars and their engineering to death, but something's gotta change.
It's certainly not the U.S. carmakers the Japanese need to be worried about.....(Toyota in particular whose fleet is DEFINITELY suffering in fit/finish).........it's the KOREANS!!!!!!!!!!!!
Watch out Toyota, here comes Hyundai/Kia.....(and Toyota knows it too)
Of all the Toyota's my dad's company and my company have gone thru in the last several years, I can tell you honestly that circa 2000 was when the cars headed downhill. I don't know what the deal is, but if you don't believe me, I'll offer you a heads up here, if only in the fit & finish dept.
Go to your local Toyota dealer and look the exterior seams and interior seams over very well. (Don't worry.....you won't miss it 'cuz it's gonna catch your attention). You'll notice that things are not good in this dept.
Then, take a walk over to Nissan, Mazda, then later go to Hyundai/Kia and report back what you find.
The results will probably shock die hard Toyota lovers......(like myself). I'm not slamming Toyota for no reason. I love their cars and their engineering to death, but something's gotta change.
shilala
Lifer
- Oct 5, 2004
- 11,437
- 1
- 76
You're absolutely right.
Those jobs will stay here right up until they can have it done cheaper in Mexico.
Don't think your job won't go to Mexico if a way can be found.
Don't think for a second that you won't be replaced by a robot, computer or machine if it's cheaper.
That's the leveling factor that organization and union representation brings.
An agreement protects worker's rights and a worker's job.
It protects their jobs from being sent to Mexico.
UAW automakers can only create NEW jobs and new factories in Mexico or other countries. They are bound by extensive restrictive agreements that attempt to keep the jobs here.
Those agreements don't exist between Toyota, Honda, and their workers.
When Toyota's numbers start skidding, the first thing to go will be employee's wage rate.
The next thing to go will be their jobs. The last thing to go will be upper level salaries and graft.
Business is business, stud.
It's all about getting the most you can from your employees and giving as little back as possible.
Oh, please. Japanese cars are *vastly* superior in quality and design to tha CRAP that the US companies sell. The US hasn't made a great mainstream automotive design since the '60's.
I'd take a Prius over anything GM or Ford manufactures today.
Jason
iamwiz82
Lifer
- Jan 10, 2001
- 30,772
- 13
- 81
I'd wager that this is a bigger sample than that of CR.
There is no point in arguing this. Certain people just have to hang on the tit of certain auto manufacturers. Personally, I'd buy from anyone except GM and Honda. I've never had an unreliable car out of 9 so far. I cannot remember my parents having an unreliable car ever, and they have gotten new ones every two years for as long as I can remember. As I continue to think about it, I can't think of a single instance where a domestic vehicle broke down in my family, and all 7 of us have or had them. I can only think of one instance where a person I know had a major problem with a domestic and it was because he failed to change the oil. Of course, he still blamed the domestic manufacturer. :roll:
not just that, the quality and the finesse of japanese products cannot be matched by americans.
i do admit that the lexus gx470, and the toyota sequoia (both derivatives) have major issues. and people have been complaining about them.
and clublexus.com does have people asking questions about their cars (duh, that's what a forum is for). half of them are modified lexus, and a 1/4 of them are at a mileage that most american cars cannot surpass. lexus quality cannot be beat (even by porsches).
Yeah, there are no American cars made in Canada or Mexico for a fraction of the Union costs here, right? Think again, bubber.
Jason
:beer:
When the post 2000 Toyotas and hondas start becoming more affordable and people who don't know how to take care of cars start buying them we'll start seeing them become tarnished. It's a cycle people...
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