"GM says Toyota quality is down" from CNN

SeaMonki

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Jan 26, 2003
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"DETROIT (Reuters) - A top official at General Motors Corp. said Wednesday that rival Toyota Motor Corp.'s reputation for quality was no longer as rock solid as it once was, citing a rise in the number of product recalls at the top Japanese carmaker.

"For a long time, they've lived off a well-earned reputation, say in the area of product quality," said John Smith, GM (down $0.38 to $30.70, Research) Vice President of global product planning.

"But if you look at the objective data in the last three years, that well-earned reputation isn't as well-earned in recent years," Smith said at the Reuters Autos Summit, held in Detroit.

Toyota (down $0.63 to $86.89, Research) is racking up market share in the United States largely at the expense of GM, which has consistently lagged Japan's top automakers in key quality studies.

"I'd say objectively that while I still think they're living off the reputation, I don't think it's being earned every day as it used to be in the past.

"And whether or not that catches up to them -- that remains to be seen," said Smith.

Toyota's Lexus luxury brand remained the top nameplate in an annual quality by J.D. Power this year. GM had two brands in the top five, but its Chevrolet, Pontiac, Saab and Saturn scored below the industry average.

GM leads the industry in product recalls, having called in 2 million vehicles in April, and another 804,000 units last month.

Toyota has also had its share, recalling 978,000 pickups and sport utility vehicles this month.

"(Recalls) didn't seem to be something they did very much of in the years past, but they've been doing it a lot these days," Smith said.

"We seem to attract more attention when we do things of that type ... I'll be interested to see whether they get the same kind of coverage that we used to get," he added, referring to the latest Toyota recall.

As Toyota, which recently eclipsed Ford Motor Co. (down $0.10 to $9.66, Research) as the world's second-largest automaker, carves out a bigger share of the U.S. market, most industry watchers expect it to unseat GM at the top in the next several years.

Smith expressed confidence, however, that GM would retain the top spot as far out as 2015, when he projects new car sales in the world to reach 85 million units a year, up from around 63 million now. "


What else will GM say next? hehe
 

iamwiz82

Lifer
Jan 10, 2001
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He's not neccessarily wrong. He never said GM was better, just Toyota is not as great as it used to be. Take a look at the JD Powers stats of Scion if you don't believe him.
 

dullard

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May 21, 2001
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There are two different concepts here.

1) Initial quality. New models or even new model years sometimes have designs or parts which just aren't up to standards. Recalls are common among all companies and these problems are fixed. No real harm done, and everyone is happy.

2) Long term reliability. Some makers have vehicles which have 10-100 times as many problems as other makers long term. This is what most people think is important.

Looks like GM is confusing #1 with #2. Or maybe, GM never has realized there is a difference.
 

stag3

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Feb 7, 2005
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so why don't they improve their own cars instead of pointing out their rivals flaws?

at this point even if toyota quality went down by 1/2, they'd still be above gm rofl
 

Dulanic

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Oct 27, 2000
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Originally posted by: SeaMonki
I wonder who has larger market share, Toyota or Honda..

....

You didn't read that whole thing did you?

As Toyota, which recently eclipsed Ford Motor Co. (down $0.10 to $9.66, Research) as the world's second-largest automaker, carves out a bigger share of the U.S. market, most industry watchers expect it to unseat GM at the top in the next several years.
 

FreshPrince

Diamond Member
Dec 6, 2001
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when lazy americans started building Toyotas, the quality of the vehicles went down :p

I kid, I kid!
 

SeaMonki

Senior member
Jan 26, 2003
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Originally posted by: Dulanic
Originally posted by: SeaMonki
I wonder who has larger market share, Toyota or Honda..

....

You didn't read that whole thing did you?

As Toyota, which recently eclipsed Ford Motor Co. (down $0.10 to $9.66, Research) as the world's second-largest automaker, carves out a bigger share of the U.S. market, most industry watchers expect it to unseat GM at the top in the next several years.

:eek:
 

skace

Lifer
Jan 23, 2001
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What I would like to know is why a "top official at General Motors Corp" would need to say anything about Toyota.
 

SarcasticDwarf

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2001
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Originally posted by: dullard
There are two different concepts here.

1) Initial quality. New models or even new model years sometimes have designs or parts which just aren't up to standards. Recalls are common among all companies and these problems are fixed. No real harm done, and everyone is happy.

2) Long term reliability. Some makers have vehicles which have 10-100 times as many problems as other makers long term. This is what most people think is important.

Looks like GM is confusing #1 with #2. Or maybe, GM never has realized there is a difference.

There's also the fact that there are *many* problems with vehicles that never causes an actual recall. Take my 97 Dodge RAM 1500. It is a well known problem that the mount for the drivers side mirror becomes loose, causing the mirror to turn inwards (making it useless and therefore a safety issue). The vehicle has never been recalled. While it can be fixed (the cheapest method is simply to weld it into place), it is not simple or cheap.
 

PingSpike

Lifer
Feb 25, 2004
21,765
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While there might necessarily be some truth to the statement, it doesn't seem like the one GM should be making, given its current reputation.

Every automaker makes mistakes, its how they handle them that determines their commitment.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
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Originally posted by: dullard
There are two different concepts here.

1) Initial quality. New models or even new model years sometimes have designs or parts which just aren't up to standards. Recalls are common among all companies and these problems are fixed. No real harm done, and everyone is happy.

2) Long term reliability. Some makers have vehicles which have 10-100 times as many problems as other makers long term. This is what most people think is important.

Looks like GM is confusing #1 with #2. Or maybe, GM never has realized there is a difference.

the trucks that GM referred to are from several years ago and over a long period of time


on another note, JD power's website is a POS to use
 

m2kewl

Diamond Member
Oct 7, 2001
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Originally posted by: FreshPrince
when lazy americans started building Toyotas, the quality of the vehicles went down :p

I kid, I kid!

werd. made by americans who can't even 'build-by-pictures' :p

gm should just build better cars before cracking on toyota.
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
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Originally posted by: ElFenix
the trucks that GM referred to are from several years ago and over a long period of time
I'm confused by your intent with that post. Whether the recall is immediate or years later does not affect how many times your car is likely to be in the shop for all the other parts and you stranded without transportation.

 
Jun 18, 2000
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Originally posted by: dullard
Originally posted by: ElFenix
the trucks that GM referred to are from several years ago and over a long period of time
I'm confused by your intent with that post. Whether the recall is immediate or years later does not affect how many times your car is likely to be in the shop for all the other parts and you stranded without transportation.
Other than anecdotal evidence, what is your source for this statement?
 

Brazen

Diamond Member
Jul 14, 2000
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Originally posted by: dullard
There are two different concepts here.

1) Initial quality. New models or even new model years sometimes have designs or parts which just aren't up to standards. Recalls are common among all companies and these problems are fixed. No real harm done, and everyone is happy.

2) Long term reliability. Some makers have vehicles which have 10-100 times as many problems as other makers long term. This is what most people think is important.

Looks like GM is confusing #1 with #2. Or maybe, GM never has realized there is a difference.

Well, I see a LOT of old GM (esp Chevy) trucks on the road with 2 - 300,000 miles on them or more and still run without problems. Toyota owners seem to be impressed with themselves if their truck gets close to 200,000 miles. So I guess GM has #2 right anyway, and since I plan on keeping my vehicles for a while, I lean towards GM.
 

Brazen

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Jul 14, 2000
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Originally posted by: KnightBreed
Originally posted by: dullard
Originally posted by: ElFenix
the trucks that GM referred to are from several years ago and over a long period of time
I'm confused by your intent with that post. Whether the recall is immediate or years later does not affect how many times your car is likely to be in the shop for all the other parts and you stranded without transportation.
Other than anecdotal evidence, what is your source for this statement?

Still learning English, huh?
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
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Originally posted by: KnightBreed
Other than anecdotal evidence, what is your source for this statement?
Common sense. If the starter is recalled, it has nothing at all to do with the failure rate of the airbags for example. If the starter is recalled immediately, or if it is recalled years later, common sense says the airbag reliability should be unaffected.