GM says they will match Japan quality

[NFS4]

technically the ford taurus/mercury sable outsells those, but ford won't mention that because then GM could say their half-tons outsell ford's.

Bullsh!t. If that were the case, the ES300/Camry/Avalon would outsell them all.

Also, even if you add Taurus and Sable sales, they STILL don't outsell the Camry:

So far through August 2002

Camry 309, 618

Taurus: 227,704
Sable: 78,266



YOU WERE SAYING??????????????????????????😛

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: NFS4

technically the ford taurus/mercury sable outsells those, but ford won't mention that because then GM could say their half-tons outsell ford's.

Bullsh!t. If that were the case, the ES300/Camry/Avalon would outsell them all.

Also, even if you add Taurus and Sable sales, they STILL don't outsell the Camry:

So far through August 2002

Camry 309, 618

Taurus: 227,704
Sable: 78,266



YOU WERE SAYING??????????????????????????😛

ok, i'm operating on data from all of 2001, you got me.

For example, the Honda Accord was the best-selling mid-size car in 2001, with sales of 414,718 automobiles, according to Automotive News Data. The Toyota Camry came in second, with sales of 390,449, and the Ford Taurus came in third, with sales of 353,560. The Sable finished out of the running, with sales of 102,646.

 

[DeadHead]

Yea, but who has the best selling fullsize truck? Who has the best selling van, who has the best selling suv.... I sure hope the american car companies would make some nice cars/trucks so I can buy them again.

 

[prontospyder]

GM already has the highest customer loyalty rate in the industry....this achievement will definitely help them gain tons of market share.

 

[StattlichPassat]

Originally posted by: bmd
In only 2 to 3 years? Fat chance.

This is hilarious! :Q😀 Maybe in a DECADE under new management and operations technology enchancements. They've got the capital to do so, just no brains.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: NightFlyerGTI

Originally posted by: bmd
In only 2 to 3 years? Fat chance.

This is hilarious! :Q😀 Maybe in a DECADE under new management and operations technology enchancements. They've got the capital to do so, just no brains.

how long did it take vw to go from making cars that were decent but not particularly popular to the current darlings they are?

 

[vi edit]

Originally posted by: prontospyder
GM already has the highest customer loyalty rate in the industry....this achievement will definitely help them gain tons of market share.

Because GM pays return customers $750 to buy another car from them!

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Two current cars:

1) 1995 Acura GSR 84K purchased for $21K: minor design issues like frameless window that howls, otherwise eccentric econobox/speed toy with minor mods.

2) 1997 Oldsmobile Aurora 82K leased then purchased (list $36K): beautiful curves, 260hp hauling 2 tons of America workmanship. Good car when it's not in the shop for another EXPENSIVE repair last one being A/C failure cost: $1100. Which was preceded by a headlamp switch $500.

1998, 99 models have similar issues. Redesign for 2001 produced a better (albeit less attractive) car. Car has a Kelley value of $11k but most dealers offer less than $5K. I would feel guilty selling it to an individual. My econobox cost much less and is currently worth more.

GM past quality was so bad they had to create a different kind of "American" car company . . .
Anybody drive the first two years of MLs out of the Alabama plant? Lincoln LS? Pontiac? Chevrolet? Even Saabs bite compared to other European brands.
GM must have meant QUANTITY . . . since "domestic" autos often come from Canada, Mexico while many "foreign" models are made in the USA.

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
Two current cars:

1) 1995 Acura GSR 84K purchased for $21K: minor design issues like frameless window that howls, otherwise eccentric econobox/speed toy with minor mods.

2) 1997 Oldsmobile Aurora 82K leased then purchased (list $36K): beautiful curves, 260hp hauling 2 tons of America workmanship. Good car when it's not in the shop for another EXPENSIVE repair last one being A/C failure cost: $1100. Which was preceded by a headlamp switch $500.

1998, 99 models have similar issues. Redesign for 2001 produced a better (albeit less attractive) car. Car has a Kelley value of $11k but most dealers offer less than $5K. I would feel guilty selling it to an individual. My econobox cost much less and is currently worth more.

GM past quality was so bad they had to create a different kind of "American" car company . . .
Anybody drive the first two years of MLs out of the Alabama plant? Lincoln LS? Pontiac? Chevrolet? Even Saabs bite compared to other European brands.
GM must have meant QUANTITY . . . since "domestic" autos often come from Canada, Mexico while many "foreign" models are made in the USA.

That's one thing I forgot to mention. Resale value on GM cars is horrible compared to Japanese cars.

 

[Shantanu]

Incentives are a clever business tool. Let's say I try to sell you a Pepsi for 50 cents. You say the price is too high. The next person comes along, and I tell them the Pepsi is 85 cents, but that there's a 30 cent discount today. Consumer thinks he's saving $$$, but I end up pocketing more cash. That's how it's been with GM's incentives. Also, the 0 percent financing brings lots of customers into their dealerships, but only 15-20% can qualify for it because they need an impeccable credit rating. You might not believe it, but I doubt GM gives a sh|t because they're making plenty of money right now 🙂

Since when do fleet sales not count as sales? Last time I checked, money exchanged for goods and/or services was enough to qualify for a sale. It doesn't make a damn bit of difference whether that sale is to Joe Schmoe or to Hertz. There's no law requiring American companies or even the American government to purchase GM products. Yup. You can go to local limosine renting service next time they are expecting a shipment of cars, and scream at the top of your lungs that it isn't an auto sale taking place to the guy delivering the goods. I think he'll laugh at you while he pockets a fat paycheck.

GM posted a $1.5 billion profit last quarter. Most American manufacturing companies are losing lots of money right now due to the overvalued U.S. dollar. Toyota and Honda are only making money because the Japanese government spent $60 billion of their own wealth to buy and hold American dollars, in order to increase the U.S. dollar's value (which was about to slide), and raise the profits of Japanese manufacturers (most of whom are on their deathbeds). Whatever... GM also has huge pension obligations (which even Ford and Chrysler don't), and yet they still make plenty of money. I wouldn't worry about their financials too much 🙂

 

[Cfour]

Originally posted by: NightFlyerGTI

Originally posted by: bmd
In only 2 to 3 years? Fat chance.

This is hilarious! :Q😀 Maybe in a DECADE under new management and operations technology enchancements. They've got the capital to do so, just no brains.

You my friend are an ignorant SOB. And besides u own a 198x GTI, I don't even listen to what you have to say, lol. Get rid of your tunnel vision and actually go test drive some of the newer GM vehicles, and then compare the import in the same class price wise.

Tony

 

[NFS4]

Since when do fleet sales not count as sales? Last time I checked, money exchanged for goods and/or services was enough to qualify for a sale. It doesn't make a damn bit of difference whether that sale is to Joe Schmoe or to Hertz. There's no law requiring American companies or even the American government to purchase GM products. Yup. You can go to local limosine renting service next time they are expecting a shipment of cars, and scream at the top of your lungs that it isn't an auto sale taking place to the guy delivering the goods. I think he'll laugh at you while he pockets a fat paycheck.

YOU said that Americans wouldn't buy sushi crap japanese cars. The fact of the matter is, more American people buy Japanese cars. That's b/c most of their sales come from American individuals while most of American cars sales come from businesses that use them for fleet operations.

No one is discounting the fact that a fleet sale IS a sale, but the fact of the matter is, more American people/families/whatever you want to call them, buy Japanese cars.

 

[prontospyder]

. I don't know about you, but a survey of how people felt 90 days after buying thier vehicle will not change my mind. I want them to do a follow up in a year or two and see how their experiences have been

JD Power and Associates has a Vehicle Dependability Study where they survey people after 5 years of ownership.

Here are the top 10 makes in the 2001 survey (1997 model year cars):

1. Lexus
2. Infiniti
3. Jaguar
4. Lincoln
5. Acura
6. Honda
7. Toyota
8. Cadillac
9. Porsche
10. Mercedes Benz

More info here:

JD Power and Associates

 

[prontospyder]

Companies finishing at or below industry average in the dependability survey:

1. Chevy
2. Chrysler
3. Dodge
4. Eagle
5. GMC
6. Geo
7. Hyundai
8. Isuzu
9. Jeep
10. Kia
11. Land Rover
12. Mazda
13. Mitsubishi
14. Plymouth
15. Pontiac
16. Suzuki
17. VW
18. Volvo

9 American, 6 Asian, and 3 European makes. There's more imports than I expected.....

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

If someone gave you specific amounts to buy a car 20K, 30K, 40K, 50K, and 60K what would you buy? What about carte blanche to purchase your dream car? We were going to trade our Aurora in for new wheels and I desperately wanted a Lincoln LS possibly an STS. But they cost more to purchase and require greater scheduled and unscheduled maintenance/repairs than comparable vehicles from Japan and some from Europe. As much trouble as the Aurora has been I even toyed with the idea of a 2002/03 b/c we can get it for list at 0%. But the GM product can't compare with a Type-S except for interior dimensions. 300M; would be a great car . . . if it was made by Acura . . . of yeah, it is it's called a Type-S. LS V8 would be a great car . . . if it was made by BMW. No self-respecting European or Japanese company would make anything by Cadillac . . . except Saab . . . and of course Opel has no self-respect.

I hate SUVs but the MDX made me think twice . . . the Honda Pilot has me thinking even more. A friend has a 2002 Envoy to replace her Mountaineer. It's definitely an improvement over prior GMs and the Mercury but it still rides like a truck (that's not a compliment) from which the interior clearly evolved as well. The discounts being offered on GM luxury boggle the mind until you consider . . . nobody wants GM luxury when they can buy Japanese or European.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Companies finishing at or below industry average in the dependability survey:

1. Chevy
2. Chrysler
3. Dodge
4. Eagle
5. GMC
6. Geo
7. Hyundai
8. Isuzu
9. Jeep
10. Kia
11. Land Rover
12. Mazda
13. Mitsubishi
14. Plymouth
15. Pontiac
16. Suzuki
17. VW
18. Volvo

9 American, 6 Asian, and 3 European makes. There's more imports than I expected.....

Well Koreans are Asian but Korean car companies are shyte. UK (Land Rover) is European on a technicality. Suzuki is a motorcycle company making cars. Mitsubishi is an engine manufacturer trying to make cars . . . which strangely enough often have crappy engines stateside. Mazada and Isuzu are always strapped for cash. The American companies have no excuse . . . except Eagle and Geo. Those were just bad ideas. Plymouth and Pontiac are old dogs that haven't died yet.

 

[DougK62]

Originally posted by: Chadder007
Did anyone notice this in the AutoWeek article??...

Lutz, for instance, has said the Volkswagen Jetta is "clearly one of our benchmarks," adding that the car's rich interior is "one of the ways they get $24,000 for a car that belongs in the Cavalier category."

$24,000 for a Chevy Cavalier.....HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!!!!!! WOOOO!!!! There has to be some other MAJOR improvements to MANY other parts of the cars before they are even close to being worth even CLOSE to a VW Jetta at $24,000.

EDIT: BTW, This is a major mistake for Chevy I believe. They will loose their Fleet buyers by an enourmous amount. Also other expensive car companies are seeing at the moment that high priced cars are not the way to go in the near future. Even BMW is about to come out with an economy based car soon. Its called the 1 series. Its sellling price is about 17,000 and already has more quality in it that Chevy can hope for.

You misread that quote. Read it again with a more critical eye instead of just glancing at it. It makes you look really dumb when you don't.

The article says that the great interior on the Jetta is one of the reasons why the Jetta costs more than a Cavalier. Meaning that if the Jetta didn't have such a nice interior (and good drivetrain) that it'd be much cheaper - around the price of a Cavalier. Lutz is just saying he wants the Cavalier to be a nicer car like the Jetta. In no way does it say they are going to charge $24k for the poopy Cavalier that's out now

And if anyone out there thinks that GM, the largest automaker in the world, can't make good cars in 2-3 years you're just plain ignorant. Will they succeed? Maybe, maybe not. They HAVE made a lot of progress in the last 2-3 years and their future lineup and plans are looking good to me.

 

[Jenova314]

Originally posted by: Shantanu

The Dodge was a totally different story. We needed it because we had it modded with a lift since my sister was handicapped and sit in a wheelchair. Besides the van's suspension rivaling that of a boat (none), the overall ride feel was just horrible. You feel all the bumps and going over a rock will resonate the cabin. The interior was HORRIBLE, we've had ceiling stuff come off within the first month. On our trip from Missouri to California during our move, it broke down and wouldn't start. We had to get a tow-truck from miles off to get it looked at. When we got there it was able to start again. Maybe overheating, so probably a problem with the radiator, but hey we did our fair share of caretaking. Overall, my family has decided to never buy a GM car ever again until there are no more alternatives or if there's a very good reason to do so. Our subsequent cars have been Japanese and German, and we're very happy with it.

Your family decided never to buy a GM car because of a bad experience with a Dodge?

oh my bad, boy did that look stupid. well, i guess i meant chrysler.

General Motors doesn't make Dodge you braindead fvcktard

So this is the infamous Sh!tanu... I didn't look at the member name until somebody mentioned that it didn't take long for him to catch onto this thread. I just thought it was some 12 year-old. All I can say that here in the Bay Area of California, Asians practically don't drive American cars. Call it brand-loyalty, country-loyalty, downright racism, have it your way. I just feel Japanese cars are better built. I rode in my friend's Impala once and it honestly felt like a boat, as if the suspension was a regular ol' spring. It didn't dampen any of the high-frequency bumps, and just rocked up and down slowly on larger bumps. Even my cheap ol' Civic didn't do that (before a guy driving in an Impala - oh the coincidence - totalled it).

Maybe if somebody has some sales figures in Japan or Europe, we could see how others feel about this rivalry.

 

[BDawg]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Since when do fleet sales not count as sales? Last time I checked, money exchanged for goods and/or services was enough to qualify for a sale. It doesn't make a damn bit of difference whether that sale is to Joe Schmoe or to Hertz. There's no law requiring American companies or even the American government to purchase GM products. Yup. You can go to local limosine renting service next time they are expecting a shipment of cars, and scream at the top of your lungs that it isn't an auto sale taking place to the guy delivering the goods. I think he'll laugh at you while he pockets a fat paycheck.

YOU said that Americans wouldn't buy sushi crap japanese cars. The fact of the matter is, more American people buy Japanese cars. That's b/c most of their sales come from American individuals while most of American cars sales come from businesses that use them for fleet operations.

No one is discounting the fact that a fleet sale IS a sale, but the fact of the matter is, more American people/families/whatever you want to call them, buy Japanese cars.

You haven't discussed the number of foreign cars sold to rental agencies. Sure, the number is smaller, but I've gotten plenty of rental Camrys (and I still prefer my SVT Contour).

 

[brtspears2]

Whatever happened to personal tastes and personal preferences?

Some people just want an import. Some people want a domestic product. NFS4 keeps defending a Carmy like a fat person and their side of coleslaw.

 

[bizmark]

Originally posted by: PsychoAndyGM is taking a huge hit on the back end because of this promo. GMAC is getting anywhere from 3.9 to 8% on 60 month loans. Do the math, thats damn near a fortune, and when you have to take that kind of hit to get sales up, well that says something.

Yeah, but that was very much a calculated thing on GM's part. They were sitting on boatloads of cash before they started that incentive offer. Ford, on the other hand, was weak on the balance sheet. One of the primary reasons GM offered the 0% financing for as long as they did (and still are I guess), was to make Ford take it in the ass. Ford couldn't sell their cars without 0% financing to match GM, but Ford couldn't afford it nearly as well as GM could. So GM was selling cars at an increased rate while simultaneously kicking Ford while it was down. Hey, I can't say I'm sad for Ford 😀

My 2 cents on the cars we've owned: only car my family has ever owned that I can truly say was a piece of sh|t was a late-80s Jeep Cherokee. My dad got one of the first Explorers after that, and drove it into the ground... we've had Suburbans, a Tahoe, a Montero Sport, a Blazer, and my '91 S-15 Jimmy. I really love that car... it's kind of a funny contrast with my car here at school, an '88 Celica. My Jimmy has major problems with its trim now... one of the door handles has broken off, the drivers window won't roll down, the back tailgate won't open, and the power locks are failing. However, in the 6 years we've owned it (bought it at 110k, it's now about 145k), the only mechanical problems we've had with it were a failed alternator, a screwy fuel pump, and a minor radiator leak (all very peripheral problems, and very cheap to fix esp. as the 4.3 is a widely used engine). My Toyota on the other hand, while most of its trim is in primo condition (although the passenger window won't roll down any more) is currently undergoing a transmission replacement. I'd rather that the sunroof didn't work 🙁

So it's like someone else said, the GM powertrains are really pretty good but their interior trim quality is lacking. At least in my personal experience.

edit: gaaaah my eyes! closed italics tag.

 

[rubenswm]

Originally posted by: Shantanu
Incentives are a clever business tool. Let's say I try to sell you a Pepsi for 50 cents. You say the price is too high. The next person comes along, and I tell them the Pepsi is 85 cents, but that there's a 30 cent discount today. Consumer thinks he's saving $$$, but I end up pocketing more cash. That's how it's been with GM's incentives. Also, the 0 percent financing brings lots of customers into their dealerships, but only 15-20% can qualify for it because they need an impeccable credit rating. You might not believe it, but I doubt GM gives a sh|t because they're making plenty of money right now 🙂

Since when do fleet sales not count as sales? Last time I checked, money exchanged for goods and/or services was enough to qualify for a sale. It doesn't make a damn bit of difference whether that sale is to Joe Schmoe or to Hertz. There's no law requiring American companies or even the American government to purchase GM products. Yup. You can go to local limosine renting service next time they are expecting a shipment of cars, and scream at the top of your lungs that it isn't an auto sale taking place to the guy delivering the goods. I think he'll laugh at you while he pockets a fat paycheck.

GM posted a $1.5 billion profit last quarter. Most American manufacturing companies are losing lots of money right now due to the overvalued U.S. dollar. Toyota and Honda are only making money because the Japanese government spent $60 billion of their own wealth to buy and hold American dollars, in order to increase the U.S. dollar's value (which was about to slide), and raise the profits of Japanese manufacturers (most of whom are on their deathbeds). Whatever... GM also has huge pension obligations (which even Ford and Chrysler don't), and yet they still make plenty of money. I wouldn't worry about their financials too much 🙂

You are once again talking out of your ass. You were OWNED earlier by NFS4. Wasn't once enough?

 

[Mani]

I have respect for GM's quality for the most part - my parents owned a few GM cars and despite how crappily they were treated at times (company cars) they held up very well, particularly the engines. I wouldn't say they come close to Honda or Toyota still, because you can just feel the difference in quality even without looking at reliability data. Parts tighter fitting, less rattling, higher quality materials used, etc.

 

[rubenswm]

Originally posted by: brtspears2
Whatever happened to personal tastes and personal preferences?

Some people just want an import. Some people want a domestic product. NFS4 keeps defending a Carmy like a fat person and their side of coleslaw.

Actually, all NFS4 is donig is disputing the bullshit information that your assbuddy brought fourth eariler (that american people don't want Japense cars).

All NFS4 is doing is bringing the information forward. I'm failing to see your joke.

 

[BDawg]

Originally posted by: rubenswm

Originally posted by: brtspears2
Whatever happened to personal tastes and personal preferences?

Some people just want an import. Some people want a domestic product. NFS4 keeps defending a Carmy like a fat person and their side of coleslaw.

Actually, all NFS4 is donig is disputing the bullshit information that your assbuddy brought fourth eariler (that american people don't want Japense cars).

All NFS4 is doing is bringing the information forward. I'm failing to see your joke.

All I know is I don't want a Camry or an Accord. Neither did my wife, which is why she drives a Taurus.