GM Fuel Cell fleet to arive next year

[BrownTown]

TMI wasn't even a big deal in terms of bad stuff happening, the press just blew it way out proportion. Of course the tens of thousand of people in the US who die of lung diseases due to particulate matter and chemicals released by coal plants are glossed over. I'm sure more people in the US get lung cancer from coal plants every year then would get cancer from radiation from a nuclear accident.

EDIT: but back to hydrogen, electrolysis is horribly energy inefficient. IF you are gonna make hydrogen the best way is to use process heat from power plants. There is a set of chemicals that can catalize the breakdown of water at high temperatures (like 900 C), so the heat from the inefficiencies of power plants can be used to make hydrogen for much less cost since the energy would mostly be wasted otherwise.

 

[Dunbar]

I think GM will build less than a 1000 fuel cell vehicles and use it to claim to be environmentally frieindly. This will allow them to avoid selling lots of money losing hybrids and continue to sell highly profitable, but inefficient, SUV's. They already have E85 commericals which imply that flex-fuel is better for the environment (which it isn't, especially if you're driving a 5500lb SUV!)

For all of the reasons already mentioned fuel cells don't make sense until energy prices are much higher.

 

[toekramp]

did he say stumblebums?

 

[Ktulu]

Originally posted by: Dunbar
I think GM will build less than a 1000 fuel cell vehicles and use it to claim to be environmentally frieindly. This will allow them to avoid selling lots of money losing hybrids and continue to sell highly profitable, but inefficient, SUV's. They already have E85 commericals which imply that flex-fuel is better for the environment (which it isn't, especially if you're driving a 5500lb SUV!)

For all of the reasons already mentioned fuel cells don't make sense until energy prices are much higher.

You mean like the way Toyota does to sell there highly inefficient Trucks and SUV's.

 

[newmachineoverlord]

It's nice that they're trying to get fuel cells moving to help their PR, but I doubt they are even practical from an energy efficiency standpoint. http://www.efcf.com/reports/E04.pdf#search=%22well%20to%20wheel%20efficiency%22

Overall energy efficiency (well to wheel/power plant to wheel) is higher for hybrid electric vehicles than for fuel cell vehicles. It is roughly twice as efficient to charge a battery for an electric vehicle than it is to use fuel cells. The main advantage of fuel cells over full electric would be greater range, assuming you could buy hydrogen where you wanted to go (but wait, you can't.)
http://thewatt.com/article-1231-nested-1-0.html

For a localized fleet of vehicles all refueled at base, it would be logical to invest in windmills to get your own cheap electricity supply, and use that to make your hydrogen supply. In this way it could become cost effective to a company with a fleet of vehicles if the per vehicle price was comparable to ICE vehicles. This is really the only way FCV's will get a foothold. The advantage here over batteries is that the energy from the windmills doesn't have to be produced at the time of refueling.

I hope FCV's succeed anyway, as their adoption could become the "killer app" for renewable energy sources, as the intermittency of the wind and sun would become entirely irrelevant if it was used to make hydrogen or other energy storage. FCV's would still be a winning proposition over more efficient hybrid ICE vehicles if the energy to make the hydrogen came from windmills. (As everyone should know, wind energy is currently the cheapest source of power on a $/kilowatt basis.) http://www.awea.org/faq/cost.html
http://www.earth-policy.org/Updates/2006/Update52.htm

Edit: Regarding that power plant that has to be torn down, they built it without a permit and without regard for zoning laws. That has nothing to do with bananas and everything to do with the builder thinking they are above the law. Do you think the city would let you keep a house you built in a zone that wasn't residential without a permit? Purveyors of electricity should not get special priveledges just because they are a big business.

Regarding nuclear: Nuke plants have never been cost effective despite hundreds of billions of dollars in government subsidies. No future nuke plants should ever be built, not because they're dangerous, but because they're not cost effective. The wind is always blowing somewhere. http://www.worldpress.org/Asia/2442.cfm