How convenient of you to leave out the Silverados and the Impala's also in the top 10. If Chevy counted Monte Carlo sales as Impala coupe sales much like Honda and Toyota do with the Accord and the "Camry" Solara the Impala would easily crack the top 5. Chevy is doing just fine, it's the other brands GM is having trouble selling, and alot of that has to do with the simple fact that the other brands aren't as cool!!
Huh?????????
"Cool" is nice to have, but for most individuals it is practicality that wins. Ask mom and dad.
What good is "cool":
1) When broken down on the highway
2) When you have to find room for the kids
3) When you have to pay the mortage
4) When you have to plow through snow
BTW
1) Mazda is no where to be found.
2) You can get *much* better deals on Toyotas than either Mazdas or Hondas.
3) The Solstice is very cool, not practical.
-LS
Originally posted by: LightningStrikes
Huh?????????
Huh? Yea you left those out of your original statement....
"Cool" is nice to have, but for most individuals it is practicality that wins. Ask mom and dad.
What good is "cool":
1) When broken down on the highway
Well if it's hot I suppose
2) When you have to find room for the kids
At least you won't panick
3) When you have to pay the mortage
At least you won't panick
4) When you have to plow through snow
That's a good one, I have no idea, but I also have no clue what you are trying to convey either!!
BTW
1) Mazda is no where to be found.
Yea still not sure where you're going with that but ok, welcome to Hot deals.
2) You can get *much* better deals on Toyotas than either Mazdas or Hondas.
Well if you'd be willing to substanciate on that and maybe provide a link you might have yourself a topic for this forum!
3) The Solstice is very cool, not practical.
Wow how astute of you to notice
-LS
Seriously, where are you going with the whole "bland thing" sales? Is this supposed to change my personal opinion on cars?
Well I think you're going to run into a brick wall on that one.
American car companies own a share in those companies, but hardly enough to control them. Their interest in the company may be enough to influence some of the decisions, but they are not "owned" by American car companies.
Wasn't the Lumina basically a four-door Monte Carlo? Regardless, you can't simply combine the sales of cars that share the same platform. I would understand for cars that are nearly identical like the Ford Taurus and Mercury Sable, but Monte Carlo and Impala are completely different cars sold under the same make. By your standard, we should include all the cars built on the Camry platform to calculate the total number sold.
Cars don't sell in mass quantities because they're cool. People buy cars for different reasons, but for most people, they are looking for something priced well with features/options, dependability, practicality, and value. Is it no surprise that all the cars in the top 10 are trucks or passenger sedans?
Also, I hardly think that domestics dominate anything other than possibly the truck segment. You can go back to the 60's and 70's with your muscle car to the time when Japanese cars were considered to be junk. It's the same mentality, along with the union pressures, that led to poor management decisions by GM that place it in the position it is in now. I sincerely hope that GM turns around and builds quality cars that outcompete the Japanese competition. However, I don't see this happening anytime soon without a complete restructuring and revamping of the entire company (including eliminating those ridiculous retirement benefit packages and union inefficiencies).
I guess it all depends on how you look at it, to me cars are wholly subjective. In my mind GM out competes the Japanese in many areas, 1st off they can give me a competent sedan that rates very highly in both quality and safety for quite a bit less than a comparable Japanese sedan (Malibu). If I wanted a muscle car I'd go for a Mustang GT or GTO before I'd go for an STI, but again that's wholly subjective, and in my mind those cars "out compete" the Japanese competition. When the Japanese "out compete" the Corvette, let me know! Oh and as far as turning around, being one of the highest quality automotive manufacturers out there has to be a decent start. Hell Buick is rated #2 behind Lexus in reliability and unlike Lexus they actually make mainstream "bland" sedans that cost less than most of the foreign competition. Quite an acheivement if you ask me, but hey looks like no one noticed so maybe it wasn't.
Most of the Camrys, Corollas, Civics and Accords are made in the States...reliability you said?
American craftsmanship is made to last.
By the way the whole Honda/Toyota craze is only prevalent in North America; in Europe they're not really popular at all. Now, how exactly are Honda and Toyota dominating the world?
American craftsmanship is made to last.
By the way the whole Honda/Toyota craze is only prevalent in North America; in Europe they're not really popular at all. Now, how exactly are Honda and Toyota dominating the world?
Wow, this thread is one enormous waste of bits.. Whatever, I got an extra $1600 off a new Saab, which was made in Japan, and owned by a US company. But please, keep arguing and looking like idiots unable to recognize that the relationship between countries, owners, and manufacturers of automobiles looks eerily similar to the British Royal Family Tree.
Thanks OP. But hardly a revelation.
Aren't the normal rebates plus negotiations less than the GM employee discount normally????
I have been buying new cars almost every year for the past 10 and have had only 2 problems. One the clear coat started to peel off my Buick in a couple of places after 4+ years. The dealer painted (clear coated?) the whole car for gratis and made no bones about it.
The other was an engine coolant problem after 5 years and more than 25,000 miles over warranty. GM split the repair cost with me. And, which somewhat surprised me, the dealer retail price for repair was lower than two other independent repair shops I got quotes from.
But the resale value is not that good. On th other hand, you can by a 2 model year old Buick for maybe $12000 with less than 20000 miles and get the balance of the warranty.
Aren't the normal rebates plus negotiations less than the GM employee discount normally????
I have been buying new cars almost every year for the past 10 and have had only 2 problems. One the clear coat started to peel off my Buick in a couple of places after 4+ years. The dealer painted (clear coated?) the whole car for gratis and made no bones about it.
The other was an engine coolant problem after 5 years and more than 25,000 miles over warranty. GM split the repair cost with me. And, which somewhat surprised me, the dealer retail price for repair was lower than two other independent repair shops I got quotes from.
But the resale value is not that good. On th other hand, you can by a 2 model year old Buick for maybe $12000 with less than 20000 miles and get the balance of the warranty.
This user deserves to be banned. If you are gunna thread crap atleast come with some backup/ammo. Support your decision. You seem to be a product of the US education system, take a chill pill, heck, watch this short video and maybe it will enlighten you to how you sound.
http://academicbias.com/bw101.html
http://academicbias.com/bw101.html
Do any of you think Consumer Reports knows anything about the reliability of cars? Unlike JD Powers, CR follows each car model for 8 years. They do this through the responses of 810,000 returned subscriber surveys. That's right 810,000 surveys from vehichle owners going back 8 years! Of 44 GM models, they recommend 10, (and that includes the Toyota twin, Pontiac Vibe). So, they recommend 23% of GM models.
Then consider Toyota. Of 17 models of Toyota, including sedans, sporty cars, sports cars, minivans, SUVs, and trucks, they recommend 14 models. So they recommend 80% of Toyota models.
For you GM fans, here are the recommended GM models.
Buick LeSabre
Buick Park Avenue
Buick Rendevous
Cadillac CTS
Chevrolet Avalanche
Chevrolet Impala
Chevrolet Siverado/GMC Sierra 1500
Chevrolet Tahoe
Pontiac Vibe
Saab 9-5
Perhaps this will be of some help to those considering a new GM product, during or after this particular promotion.
Then consider Toyota. Of 17 models of Toyota, including sedans, sporty cars, sports cars, minivans, SUVs, and trucks, they recommend 14 models. So they recommend 80% of Toyota models.
For you GM fans, here are the recommended GM models.
Buick LeSabre
Buick Park Avenue
Buick Rendevous
Cadillac CTS
Chevrolet Avalanche
Chevrolet Impala
Chevrolet Siverado/GMC Sierra 1500
Chevrolet Tahoe
Pontiac Vibe
Saab 9-5
Perhaps this will be of some help to those considering a new GM product, during or after this particular promotion.
A few months ago I read something about Toyota's CEO said they will voluntary raise their vehicles (including Lexus) prices to allow American Auto Makers to better compete... because if the big 3 have problem, it will effect everyone else.
One thing I really don't understand is big company like Ford and GM (Ever since Chrysler been bought by Daimler, they are a bit better now) with all the money they have, still can't really compete with foreign workmanship...
One thing I really don't understand is big company like Ford and GM (Ever since Chrysler been bought by Daimler, they are a bit better now) with all the money they have, still can't really compete with foreign workmanship...
:laugh:
This one is up there with "Your Toyota is a FORD!!" in OT.
It seems there are few topics on this board people are more misinformed about than cars...
Of course Consumer Reports pretty much considers Toyota the bees knees. Everyone knows that. I look at those reports, compare the cars they DON'T recommend to people I know that own those same cars, have had 0 problems and like their car just fine, and come to the conclusion the reports are mostly useless. The only thing useful is the resale value, which you can find out for free on Edmunds.com. This is 2005. We don't have Ford Pintos and Chevy Citations anymore.
WhipperSnapper
Lifer
- Oct 30, 2004
- 11,442
- 32
- 91
I'm most interested, not in initial quality, but long term reliability and quality.
In my experience, the GM's and Fords of the '80s were not very good. My father's Buicks and Oldsmobiles always seemed to have transmission problems around 60,000 miles, though maybe he needed to maintain the transmission fluid more often. The first car I ever owned was a '88 Ford Escort and it was a POS.
However, in the '90s their build quailty seemed to improve significantly. My 2002 Ford Escort was a pretty decent and fairly reliable car until I bought a new car in 2002. (The '92 Escort ended up with 90,000 miles on it. Other than having to change the starter at around 75,000 miles it had no real problems when I got rid of it.) My girlfriend bought a new Oldmobile Achieva in 1994 and it has 120,000 miles without having had any huge problems, though it has had a couple (power window motor problems).
Overall though, if I were buying new again and lowest immediate price weren't a huge factor (ie, no must have zero percent financing) I'd consider a Japanese model since I do think they're a bit nicer and retain their value longer. However, I'd definitely consider a used American model since they drop in price so quickly whereas the used Japanese cars seem to be over-valued IMHO.
Top 10 Cars With the Best Residual Value for 2004
http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/list/top10/102467/article.html
1. Porsche 911 ? 57%
2. Mercedes-Benz CLK-Class ? 53%
3. Acura NSX ? 52%
Dodge Viper
Honda S2000
Mini Cooper
4. BMW Z4 ? 51%
Nissan 350Z
5. BMW M3 ? 50%
6. BMW 3 Series ? 49%
Honda Accord
Honda Civic
Volkswagen Jetta
Volkswagen New Beetle
7. Acura RSX ? 48%
Chevrolet Corvette
Lexus ES 330
Lexus GS 300
Lexus GS 430
Lexus SC 430
Mercedes-Benz CLK55 AMG
Mercedes-Benz SLK-Class
Mercedes-Benz SLK32 AMG
Toyota Camry Solara
Toyota Celica
Toyota MR2 Spyder
8. Audi TT ? 47%
Infiniti G35
Mercedes-Benz CL-Class
Mercedes-Benz E-Class
Toyota Matrix
Volkswagen GTI
Volkswagen Passat
9. Acura TL ? 46%
Acura TSX
BMW 5 Series
Mazda RX-8
Mercedes-Benz CL55 AMG
Porsche Boxster
Subaru Outback
Toyota Camry
Volkswagen Golf
10. Jaguar S-Type R ? 45%
Lexus IS 300
Lexus LS 430
Mercedes-Benz E55 AMG
Nissan Altima
Toyota Avalon
Volvo XC70
True Cost to Own: Revealing the Hidden Costs of Car Ownership By Philip Reed
http://www.edmunds.com/apps/cto/CTOintroController?
"The Edmunds.com True Cost to OwnSM (TCO) pricing system calculates the additional costs you may not have included when considering your next vehicle purchase. These extra costs include: depreciation, interest on your loan, taxes and fees, insurance premiums, fuel costs, maintenance, and repairs. Search below to view the TCO of any vehicle".
-LS
GM Employee Discount for Everyone
http://www.gm.com/employeediscount.do?cmp=gm_com
Everything you need is there....
-LS
Anyone watch the depressing GM segment on CBS Sunday Morning? GM employs exactly 1 employee to cover the pension of 2.6 employees, and health care adds $1600 to the cost of every GM car. And, they are down to 25% market share and dropping like a rock. I would hate have a GM pension...
I misspoke...I would hate to RELY on it. I would love ot have one.
GM simply cannot compete with Toyota, Nissan, or Hyundai for that matter, and the fact that they have discounted their entire product line is a desparate, but needed act. They are simply trying to get SOME market share back. But, the car biz, like all biz, is based on profit.
Here in Ohio we have a lot of GM employees and many of my friends are retired now at 50 years old with a $3000.00 a month pension.
Not bad, most get a second job at a golf couse or Home depot a few days a week to stay busy.
Not bad, most get a second job at a golf couse or Home depot a few days a week to stay busy.
HERE AT GM WE WERE RATED #1 BY JD POWER & ASSOC FOR INITIAL QUA.. OOH SHINY.
Then 6 months later stuff starts peeling and you get rust. GO GM!
Then 6 months later stuff starts peeling and you get rust. GO GM!
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