GM chickens out on CVT transmissions for their cars

[thedarkwolf]

Originally posted by: blakeatwork

Originally posted by: thomsbrain
if they were smart, they'd trade their A/C to a japanese company in return for a CVT. GM makes damn good A/C, no doubt about it.

Really?? I've had nothing but problems on mine (2000 Firefly). Pinhole leaks and a new compressor later, and i still don't ahve an AC unit that works..

Isn't that a rebadged Isuzu?

 

[Excelsior]

Damnit man! The 500 and Freestyle haven't been on the fvcking market yet.

Edit: So I don't give a sh!t if Ford is using a CVT in them, they haven't been thoroughly tested yet.

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: Excelsior
Damnit man! The 500 and Freestyle haven't been on the fvcking market yet.

Edit: So I don't give a sh!t if Ford is using a CVT in them, they haven't been thoroughly tested yet.

The 500/Freestyle/Montego are out this Fall.

Testy aren't we? Did you miss your nap this afternoon? Do you need to be burped?? Ahh, poor baby

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Excelsior
Damnit man! The 500 and Freestyle haven't been on the fvcking market yet.

Edit: So I don't give a sh!t if Ford is using a CVT in them, they haven't been thoroughly tested yet.

Well, you just said b/c Toyota it doing it and I gave you a list of 10 cars. And the 500/Freestyle/Montego are out this Fall.

Testy aren't we? Did you miss your nap this afternoon? Do you need to be burped?? Ahh, poor baby

Actually, no I didn't. Confused? SuperTool said it. Exactly, out this fall. GM has already had problems with ther cars equipped with CVT, because they have been out for a year. Give it a year, to see if Ford isn't having similar problems.

Edit: I'd be pleased if you refrained from talking like that.

 

[raptor13]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Excelsior
Damnit man! The 500 and Freestyle haven't been on the fvcking market yet.

Edit: So I don't give a sh!t if Ford is using a CVT in them, they haven't been thoroughly tested yet.

Well, you just said b/c Toyota it doing it and I gave you a list of 10 cars. And the 500/Freestyle/Montego are out this Fall.

Testy aren't we? Did you miss your nap this afternoon? Do you need to be burped?? Ahh, poor baby

I can't make a big enough point about this even thought it doesn't have a lot to do with GM cutting their CVT. Ford's Freestyle and 500 CVTs have been seeing massive quality problems and, because of that, production has been halted numerous times on the line. Hopefully they'll get everything sorted out soon but it's not a good feeling to know about 1 in every 30 transmissions completely fails initial quality checks and isn't being installed on a vehicle. That's not a good ratio when you're trying to build hundreds of thousands of vehicles.

Beware the CVT.

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Excelsior
Damnit man! The 500 and Freestyle haven't been on the fvcking market yet.

Edit: So I don't give a sh!t if Ford is using a CVT in them, they haven't been thoroughly tested yet.

Well, you just said b/c Toyota it doing it and I gave you a list of 10 cars. And the 500/Freestyle/Montego are out this Fall.

Testy aren't we? Did you miss your nap this afternoon? Do you need to be burped?? Ahh, poor baby

Actually, no I didn't. Confused? SuperTool said it.

Edit: I'd be pleased if you refrained from talking like that.

OK, you didn't say it, but damn you are getting defensive over some trivial stuff.

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Excelsior
Damnit man! The 500 and Freestyle haven't been on the fvcking market yet.

Edit: So I don't give a sh!t if Ford is using a CVT in them, they haven't been thoroughly tested yet.

Well, you just said b/c Toyota it doing it and I gave you a list of 10 cars. And the 500/Freestyle/Montego are out this Fall.

Testy aren't we? Did you miss your nap this afternoon? Do you need to be burped?? Ahh, poor baby

Actually, no I didn't. Confused? SuperTool said it.

Edit: I'd be pleased if you refrained from talking like that.

OK, you didn't say it, but damn you are getting defensive over some trivial stuff.

I am getting "defensive" because it is obvious you used this announcement as a chance to bash GM.

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
A CVT inherantly isn't well suited for torquey situations. The Vue is the heaviest vehicle that I know of that's had a CVT option. Given GM's generally excellent automatic transmissions (hey, BMW and Jaguar used 'em), it probably just wasn't upto par.

Nope. Audi A6, Nissan Murano. A CVT is hooked up to Nissan's 4.5 liter V8 in one of their large sedans Japan.

I did not know that. My above statement is no longer true. HOW DARE YOU MAKE ME A LIAR!

In fairness, the CVT system Nissan uses on powerful motors is not the same as other automakers. I believe it doesn't use chains or steel belts, but toroidal rollers. Basically Auto > CVT, so GM is right. CVT advantage is that it can keep the engine running through constant optimal RPM's. However, customers don't like it, because the engine sounds monotonic, so CVT's are controled to use fixed gear ratios, which defeats the whole purpose of CVT. With 6 or 7 gear autos, there is little incentive for CVT's. So why invest in them, and deal with all the inherent weaknesses? Just because Toyota is doing it?

Nissan Murano
Mini Cooper
Audi A4
Audi A6
Ford 500
Ford Freestyle
Mercury Montego
Toyota Prius
Honda Civic Hybrid
Honda Civic HX Coupe

So? Mostly small cars and hybrids, with the exception of Murano and Audi. Audi keeps adding new gee-whiz technology before they get quality under control on the existing technology. Not something GM should imitate. I really doubt any of the owners would complain much if these cars had a 6 speed auto isntead of a CVT. Most of them would be happy with a 5 speed auto, and content with a 4 speed.
The point is CVT does not make any sense. It's not robust enough for GM's big products, and it's not affordable enough for compacts. It's a niche product at best, and a technological dead end at worst. 6 speed auto is great for the whole product range, it's proven technology, it does not have any dragging chains, etc. It gets the job done, and has the volumes to amortize the R&D costs. I hope Ford drops the CVT R&D. If some hippies want a CVT for whatever reason, buy it from Toyota. It will be cheaper than developing one in house, because the volumes just aren't there.

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Excelsior
Damnit man! The 500 and Freestyle haven't been on the fvcking market yet.

Edit: So I don't give a sh!t if Ford is using a CVT in them, they haven't been thoroughly tested yet.

Well, you just said b/c Toyota it doing it and I gave you a list of 10 cars. And the 500/Freestyle/Montego are out this Fall.

Testy aren't we? Did you miss your nap this afternoon? Do you need to be burped?? Ahh, poor baby

Actually, no I didn't. Confused? SuperTool said it.

Edit: I'd be pleased if you refrained from talking like that.

OK, you didn't say it, but damn you are getting defensive over some trivial stuff.

I am getting "defensive" because it is obvious you used this announcement as a chance to bash GM.

How are you going to advance technology if you stop in mid-development while your competitors forge forward? Ford, Toyota and Honda (and to a lesser extent, Nissan) are progressing nicely with their hybrid vehicles. And what is GM doing?

My point is not that they shouldn't continue to develop proven technology, but that they should also take the time to go forward with alternatives as well.

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Excelsior
Damnit man! The 500 and Freestyle haven't been on the fvcking market yet.

Edit: So I don't give a sh!t if Ford is using a CVT in them, they haven't been thoroughly tested yet.

Well, you just said b/c Toyota it doing it and I gave you a list of 10 cars. And the 500/Freestyle/Montego are out this Fall.

Testy aren't we? Did you miss your nap this afternoon? Do you need to be burped?? Ahh, poor baby

Actually, no I didn't. Confused? SuperTool said it.

Edit: I'd be pleased if you refrained from talking like that.

OK, you didn't say it, but damn you are getting defensive over some trivial stuff.

I am getting "defensive" because it is obvious you used this announcement as a chance to bash GM.

How are you going to advance technology if you stop in mid-development while your competitors forge forward? Ford, Toyota and Honda (and to a lesser extent, Nissan) are progressing nicely with their hybrid vehicles. And what is GM doing?

Ok, that I will "agree" with. Why not say that in the first place instead of implying that GM is inferior because the other automakers you listed aren't having trouble with their implementation of CVTs.

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Excelsior
Damnit man! The 500 and Freestyle haven't been on the fvcking market yet.

Edit: So I don't give a sh!t if Ford is using a CVT in them, they haven't been thoroughly tested yet.

Well, you just said b/c Toyota it doing it and I gave you a list of 10 cars. And the 500/Freestyle/Montego are out this Fall.

Testy aren't we? Did you miss your nap this afternoon? Do you need to be burped?? Ahh, poor baby

Actually, no I didn't. Confused? SuperTool said it.

Edit: I'd be pleased if you refrained from talking like that.

OK, you didn't say it, but damn you are getting defensive over some trivial stuff.

I am getting "defensive" because it is obvious you used this announcement as a chance to bash GM.

How are you going to advance technology if you stop in mid-development while your competitors forge forward? Ford, Toyota and Honda (and to a lesser extent, Nissan) are progressing nicely with their hybrid vehicles. And what is GM doing?

Ok, that I will "agree" with. Why not say that in the first place instead of implying that GM is inferior because the other automakers you listed aren't having trouble with their implementation of CVTs.

Did I ever say they were inferior? I said they were chickening out when their competitors are going forward.

 

[SuperTool]

Discretion is the better part of valor. You can say they are chickening out, but if they had their beancounters and engineers look at CVT and made a conclusion that it's not worth investing in it, unless you can see into the future, you can't say they are wrong. Maybe, maybe not. Ditto for the hybrids.

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Excelsior
Damnit man! The 500 and Freestyle haven't been on the fvcking market yet.

Edit: So I don't give a sh!t if Ford is using a CVT in them, they haven't been thoroughly tested yet.

Well, you just said b/c Toyota it doing it and I gave you a list of 10 cars. And the 500/Freestyle/Montego are out this Fall.

Testy aren't we? Did you miss your nap this afternoon? Do you need to be burped?? Ahh, poor baby

Actually, no I didn't. Confused? SuperTool said it.

Edit: I'd be pleased if you refrained from talking like that.

OK, you didn't say it, but damn you are getting defensive over some trivial stuff.

I am getting "defensive" because it is obvious you used this announcement as a chance to bash GM.

How are you going to advance technology if you stop in mid-development while your competitors forge forward? Ford, Toyota and Honda (and to a lesser extent, Nissan) are progressing nicely with their hybrid vehicles. And what is GM doing?

Ok, that I will "agree" with. Why not say that in the first place instead of implying that GM is inferior because the other automakers you listed aren't having trouble with their implementation of CVTs.

Did I ever say they were inferior? I said they were chickening out when their competitors are going forward.

No, but I never said you did. I said you implied it.

 

[blakeatwork]

Originally posted by: thedarkwolf

Originally posted by: blakeatwork

Originally posted by: thomsbrain
if they were smart, they'd trade their A/C to a japanese company in return for a CVT. GM makes damn good A/C, no doubt about it.

Really?? I've had nothing but problems on mine (2000 Firefly). Pinhole leaks and a new compressor later, and i still don't ahve an AC unit that works..

Isn't that a rebadged Isuzu?

Sorta... i think...

Never really paid attention to the mechanics of it... I do know that the engine is Suzuki built..