Glaciator...no improvement over Volcano II

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XFelony

Junior Member
Jun 7, 2001
8
0
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I just received my Glaciator yesterday and installed it on my 1.333 Athlon. I previously had a Volcano II installed. The current temps (may not be accurate..using MB sensors) are idle: 45C and Load: 52C.

The problem is I get the SAME temps no matter which HSF I use!!!!!

My first thougth was the Glaciator's spring clip was not too strong, so maybe it wasn't making good contact with the CPU. So I removed the "rubber feet" from the CPU and VERY CAREFULLY re-installed the HSF. No change.

Spending $11.00 vs $46.00 and no change.....that just doesn't sit right!

Enlight 7237 Case 300 Watt
80mm front intake fan
80mm rear exhaust fan (plus PS exhaust fan)
AMD Athlon C 1.3Ghz CPU (not overclocked)
512MB SDRAM
IWILL KK266 MB
2 IBM 41GB 7200 HD's
SoundBlaster LIVE! Value (PCI)
Linksys 10/100 NIC
Leadtec GeForce 2 GTS Pro
Plextor 8-4-32 CDRW
Teac 40x CD-ROM

Any ideas....
 
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shikhan

Senior member
Mar 15, 2001
834
0
71
How's the case ventilation... If the case air is too hot, it really wont matter how much better a HS is...
 
X

XFelony

Junior Member
Jun 7, 2001
8
0
0
Thanks for the help!

I agree the MB thermistors are most likely way off on the accuracy side. I think the case cooling is OK. The system temp stays the same all the time (with 1 degree).

The chip OC'd OK (well at least it went to 1.466 without an issue). I have gone any farther than that with either HSF. I will say that the Glaciator did hold a slightly lower temp at load when the CPU was running at 1.466 (3C lower).

I have contacted Millennium Thermal about the issue. Will post the reply.

thanks...
XF
 
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mothman

Senior member
May 26, 2001
411
0
0
AS11 is Artic Silver II heatsink compound.
Most people agree it's the best.

I have a Enlight 7237 Case with 300 Watt power supply
and my case cooling was the pits with two 80mm fans.
I modded the case and installed a 120mm fan in front
a 92mm in back and saw a 7c to 10c degree drop cpu temp.
Idle is 28c-30c Load 35c-40c. Room temp 70F.
Tbird 1gig, using a Comp-u-nurse temp probe in between my
Alpha PEP and cpu just touching the core.

Hope this helps.

 
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crzyc

Senior member
Feb 3, 2000
670
0
0


<< AS11 is Artic Silver II heatsink compound.
Most people agree it's the best.

I have a Enlight 7237 Case with 300 Watt power supply
and my case cooling was the pits with two 80mm fans.
I modded the case and installed a 120mm fan in front
a 92mm in back and saw a 7c to 10c degree drop cpu temp.
Idle is 28c-30c Load 35c-40c. Room temp 70F.
Tbird 1gig, using a Comp-u-nurse temp probe in between my
Alpha PEP and cpu just touching the core.

Hope this helps. >>



how much did your case temp drop, i have a 92mm intake and 80mm out on my enlight7237, case temp is 22 C and it didn't drop after i added the outtake
 
X

XFelony

Junior Member
Jun 7, 2001
8
0
0
Thanks guys!!!

I have done some further testing and in my situation the Volcano II out performed the Glaciator! I ran the RC5-64 client for 12 hours on each HSF with the CPU at 1.333 (not OC'd).

The Volcano II beat the Glaciator by 2C. IF Millennium-Thermal stands behind thier product
they will be getting this one back. :D

Hey mothman...When you say &quot;modded my case&quot;, does that mean getting out a metal saw and opening up the fan holes and drilling new holes to mount the new larger fans?

Thanks again for all you help....

XF
 
X

XFelony

Junior Member
Jun 7, 2001
8
0
0
Perhaps you can clue me in on how I should be testing? And, if you will, tell HOW my test is wrong.

Thanks...
XF
 
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shOOter9

Junior Member
Jun 21, 2001
24
0
0
You have to tell us the ambient temp in your case. If its like 30C and you are oc'ing then those temps would make some sense.
 
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mothman

Senior member
May 26, 2001
411
0
0
how much did your case temp drop, i have a 92mm intake and 80mm out on my enlight7237, case temp is 22 C and it didn't drop after i added
the outtake

My case temp drop to within 1c of ambient room temp.
This I believe is what effects cpu cooling the most.
I use a Mechatronics 120mmx120mmx38mm. 126CFM 2800RPM 43dba
in front and a 92x92x25mm Sanyo denki 52 CFM 33dba in back.
Plus the dual fans on my Leadman PS.
I also found it more effective to cover the slots on
the side of my case.

Hey mothman...When you say &quot;modded my case&quot;, does that mean getting out a metal saw and opening up the fan holes and drilling new holes
to mount the new larger fans?

I didn't use a metal saw I used a nibbler tool (from Radio Shack)
to make the holes, more time consuming but less messy.

EDIT: I also added some and enlarged all the holes on
the case front panel. Plus I cut out the clip off on the
bottom of the front panel, I had to do that to clear the
120mm fan and it also increases air flow to the fan.
 
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Nitestorm

Junior Member
Jun 18, 2001
3
0
0
In theory the temps via the in-socket thermistor might not be that different or the Glaciator might be even higher, but the core temp itself could be much cooler with the Glaciator than the Volcano II. Joe over at overclockers.com explained to me that the in-socket thermistor reports a secondary heatpath and the change in temp of that doesn't always match the change in temp of the core itself. Plus the difference between these two isn't the same for all heatsinks. It seems the Glaciator's design especially doesn't cool the secondary heatpath as well as other heatsinks do, but still cools the core pretty well and thus the temps reported via the in-socket thermistor are a few degrees higher than the core is, where as with other heatsinks, the results are much closer or even lower than the core temp. The guy who designed the Glaciator tries to explain it here.

Don't totally discard the temps you get, but don't take them on face value either without futher testing. Really, the best test at home is to up the Vcore to 1.85v and overclock with both heatsinks using the same setup and reapplying the thermal compound correctly (doesn't the Glaciator comes with AS2?) and making sure the heatsink is making good contact with the core. If the Glaciator is any better, it should let you reach higher speeds than the Volcano II, no matter what temps it reports via the in-socket thermistor.

Unless the difference in performance is small, since a drop of only a couple degrees doesn't always let you overclock more or if it is something else in your system limiting your overclock if increasing the FSB. For example, the memory or maybe the network card not liking 146Mhz+ speeds. From what I hear case cooling seems to be more important to the Glaciator's performance. Maybe due to the copper retaining a lot of heat and more airflow is needed to help remove that heat since the fan the Glaciator uses doesn't have as much airflow?

Of course, pure performance is just one issue. There is also the noise level, price, easy of use, mounting system etc to consider for an overall view of the heatsink. Plus it's all down to individiual taste and needs. Some of us don't like the noise of delta fan heatsinks, others don't mind. Some want a clip and forgot heatsink, some of us don't mind having to be careful when moving. Some of us don't want to pay over $50 for a heatsink, others don't mind.
 
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Nitestorm

Junior Member
Jun 18, 2001
3
0
0
Also consider applying the 'Idle' VIA chipset tweak. On some motherboards, this tweak can reduce idle temps by a good few degrees. I will not go into detail about it, but basically you can put the processor into power saving mode when the processor is idle by either the HLT command via software (like CPUIdle, Rain etc) and by STOP GRANT STATES (SGS) via the chipset itself. The SGS method requires the chipset disconnects from (stops talking to) the processor before it can enter power saving mode. However, some motherboards don't enable this disconnect by default therefore the processor never enters power saving mode. By editing the right chipset register (52) we can set the right value (EB) to enable this disconnect function and then the processor will correctly go into power saving mode when idle and thus lower the temp at idle. Well thats the theory.

You need WPCREDIT, WPCRSET and the KT133 plug-in which can be downloaded from viahardware.com. The instructions for the tweak can be found here.
 
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mothman

Senior member
May 26, 2001
411
0
0
That's a neat tip about the VIA chipset tweak.
Have you tried it?
Does it work for EPOX KT133 chipset boards?

Thanks.......:cool:
 
B

Brats

Member
Jun 10, 2001
55
0
0
All said, the Volcano II isn't a bad HSF at all. I'd expect you'd see somewhat lower temps with the Glaciator, but cooling is a tricky art. Is your system stable? That's the ultimate test, although your temps seem high. If it's not stable, make sure you've installed the HSF properly (don't use too much thermal compound, just a thin layer, and check to ensure the core is mated to the HSF properly -- look at the thermal paste to see if the core is making complete contact).

Last, you actually took off the chip pads? That's risky, but it should ensure the core is fully pressed into the HSF. On the other hand, it's not necessary, and opens you to trouble.
 
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elkinm

Platinum Member
Jun 9, 2001
2,146
0
71
About the VIA chipset tweak. I have an A7V 750 with a Volcano II and AS (well aplied), and I get 40-45C Idle and 46+ at MAX. I think it is a little hot as I have seen temps in 30s or even lower on these posts.

The question is wether the tweak is safe since the cooling and warming of the core and heat expantion effects can quickly destroy a CPU.
 
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gunf1ghter

Golden Member
Jan 29, 2001
1,866
0
0
well, I don't know that heat expansion is a problem but a few guys over on athlonoc.com really messed up their mobos by trying to edit the registers and enable the cooling on the boards.
 
X

XFelony

Junior Member
Jun 7, 2001
8
0
0
I want to thank everyone for all the great info that you guys passed on to this newbie!

I did two things yesterday. First, I got a honkin big 120mm fan and modded my case to make it fit in the front to blow cool air into the case. Second, I read some more on HSF's and OC'ing.

The modded case and big fan made a HUGE improvement in the temps all around. I was under the impression that the 80mm fan intake was fine...NOT. that 120mm fan in front dropped the CPU temp 7-8C and the case temp by 3-4C. I want to thank monthman for this suggestion!

The second thing was to read more about cooling, temps, HSF, OC'ing and the articles that Nitestorm referenced were great! thanks!!

Later today and tonight I will put the the Glaciator back on. All the above information was with the CPU running at 1.333 (266) not OC'd and the Volcano II installed. I was only able to get 1.466 out of the chip with the Volcano (only bumping the multiplier, and not the FSB). I will try the same thing with the Glaciator and see what happens:)

Thanks again for all the help!!!
XF
 
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frankroh

Member
Jun 15, 2001
116
0
0
I hear case cooling seems to be more important to the Glaciator's performance. Maybe due to the copper retaining a lot of heat and more airflow is needed to help remove that heat since the fan the Glaciator uses doesn't have as much airflow?

I don't get it. So if I buy a Glaciator which is almost 4x more expensive than the VolcanoII, I need to spend more $$ on case cooling as well?

I have a Vantec 6254 which I bought for $18, and using the generic white thermal grease, Asus PCProbe and the infamous and should-not-be-trusted mobo thermistor, I get 42~43C during normal use and 45~46 after heavy gaming load. My case has one 80mm input fan and another 80mm for out.

There are many variables of course, but if everyone's right in saying the thermistor is giving higher temp reading than the actual (in defense of the Glaciator), my Vantec *could* be keeping my slightly OC'ed 1.33 well below 40deg C, which would put the Vantec in the league with other HSFs thrice the price.

Tell me again why I need to buy a $40 HSF again, hype and innuendos notwithstanding? :p


 
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