Give Me Your Tired, Your Poor, Your Homeschoolers

[Bateluer]

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1968099-1,00.html

Okay, I admit, I'm not always the biggest fan of public schools. Nor private schools for that matter. I am, however, a proponent of choice. Unfortunately, I also have issues with parents homeschooling their children. There's so much variance in their qualifications and 'lesson plans' that its impossible to say whether or not the children are getting a quality education. Attending school isn't about just reading text books or listening to lectures either. There's a critical social aspect that children attending school must learn. It seems that many home schooled children, while they can be very book smart, have extremely limited social skills. One of the points they bring up is the issue of bullies. And yes, I too was bullied through most of elementary and middle school. It is a fact of life, though, that everyone will, at some point, have to interact with people they don't like. You may have to work for, with, or alongside people that are complete jerks and extremely rude. Its a fact of life.

In Germany, mandatory school attendance dates back to 1717, when it was introduced in Prussia, and the policy has traditionally been viewed as a social good. "This law protects children," says Josef Kraus, president of the German Teachers' Association. The European Court of Human Rights agrees with him. In 2006, the court threw out a homeschooling family's case when it deemed Germany's compulsory-schooling law as compatible with the European Convention on Human Rights, an international treaty drafted in 1950. Given this backdrop, it's little wonder the Romeikes came up against a wall of opposition when they tried to talk to their school principal about the merits of homeschooling.

 

[Codewiz]

Home schooling is so popular now that most parents participate in social groups with their children. They have just as much of an opportunity to interact socially as other children.

 

[Blackjack200]

I used to be highly critical of homeschooling, but at this point regular schools (including private schools) seem so bad I'd actually consider it. Where are the schools that teach your kids how to think?

As an aside, my fundie aunt homeschools her kids and they are socially retarded by about 5 years (they are 14 and 15 and act like little kids). I think this could be avoided if you are careful about socializing your kids. As for the bullies, I don't think that's ever a positive experience.

 

[K1052]

As for the bullies, I don't think that's ever a positive experience.

Life is filled with negative experiences, learning how to properly address them is a critical life skill.

 

[TheDoc9]

I didn't learn my most valuable social skills in school, I was taught them through other means. Social skills begin at home with the parents, if it fails there it won't be learned in school either. In fact, an argument can be made that school can make it worse.

 

[K1052]

I didn't learn my most valuable social skills in school, I was taught them through other means. Social skills begin at home with the parents, if it fails there it won't be learned in school either. In fact, an argument can be made that school can make it worse.

You don't learn to socialize with your peers by socializing with your parents.

 

[Blackjack200]

Life is filled with negative experiences, learning how to properly address them is a critical life skill.

While I'm far from an expert on childhood development, I believe I gained the ability to deal with aggressive and confrontational people by building self confidence, not by getting my underwear pulled over my head in the locker room.

I know a lot of people think you build mettle by surviving these experiences, but too many times I've seen kids that have to deal with this just retreat inside a shell.

Actually, now my interest is picqued, I'll have to find a book about this sort of thing...

 

[waggy]

Home schooling is so popular now that most parents participate in social groups with their children. They have just as much of an opportunity to interact socially as other children.

yeap. i know one family that is home schooled. they are farther ahead of the schools in there area. they all speak 2 languages, have to be good on one music instrumant, and have basic mechanics and home repair. they are always at the top of the state test hey have to take.

they are also in many different social groups that the kids are fine.

though on the other hand i also know another family that is home schooled and they NEVER do anything. the oldest is 11 and can barely read or do simple math.

 

[BoberFett]

You don't learn to socialize with your peers by socializing with your parents.

You learn to socialize with adults, which is as much or more important than socializing with children.

Home schooled children also have to pass the same test that public school children do. I know because my daughter was home schooled through fourth grade and the district was very strict about having tests administered.

 

[highland145]

You learn to socialize with adults, which is as much or more important than socializing with children.

Home schooled children also have to pass the same test that public school children do. I know because my daughter was home schooled through fourth grade and the district was very strict about having tests administered.

How did she do when she went back to public? And now?

 

[Throckmorton]

I used to be highly critical of homeschooling, but at this point regular schools (including private schools) seem so bad I'd actually consider it. Where are the schools that teach your kids how to think?

As an aside, my fundie aunt homeschools her kids and they are socially retarded by about 5 years (they are 14 and 15 and act like little kids). I think this could be avoided if you are careful about socializing your kids. As for the bullies, I don't think that's ever a positive experience.

My coworker home schools, and I was shocked at how her sons acted. They were like toddlers instead of 5-7 year olds. They couldn't form coherent sentences, fidgeted a lot, and touched people as though they had no sense of personal space.


She 'socializes' them with play groups or whatever, but that's not nearly the same as being around your peers for 6 hours a day.

Screw political correctness. Home schooling is stupid.

 

[Elfear]

I used to think homeschooling was counterproductive and frankly rather weird but I have changed my tune in the last few years when I had kids of my own. I think the social aspect is something that needs to be watched carefully as it can be an issue judging by the families I know. With its growing popularity however, socializing your kids with their peers is much less problematic. All of the kids I know that were homeschooled were very smart. One girl in my Masters program was homeschooled and she was going to graduate at 20 with excellent grades. Another family near me had most of their kids start college at 16.

I think homeschooling is a great option if you can pick a good lesson system, stick to it, and find sufficient social outlets for your kids.

As far as dealing with bullies goes, I cringe thinking about the crap people had to deal with in HS. It made me more socially introverted having to deal with that. I learned to deal with people (specifically people who don't like me) in college and in the work place. I became a lot more sure of myself and extroverted despite my HS experiences, not because of them.

 

[highland145]

Screw political correctness.

Not following your line of thinking?

Watch the 20/20 stupid in america and you would look for another alternative to public school. I have heard of some horror stories with the home school education but more with the public.

 

[dmw16]

The average person isn't qualified to home school a child. My biggest issues are parents not being able to recognize learning disabilities and how to deal with and/or overcome them. They also aren't (generally) capable to teaching more advanced subject matters (high school chemistry/physics/biology, calculus, foreign languages, etc).

I view home schooling the same as home dentistry - only a good idea if you are a trained dentist and even then not the best idea.

 

[Blackjack200]

As far as dealing with bullies goes, I cringe thinking about the crap people had to deal with in HS. It made me more socially introverted having to deal with that. I learned to deal with people (specifically people who don't like me) in college and in the work place. I became a lot more sure of myself and extroverted despite my HS experiences, not because of them.

Thanks. Pretty much exactly my experience.

 

[Blackjack200]

The average person isn't qualified to home school a child. My biggest issues are parents not being able to recognize learning disabilities and how to deal with and/or overcome them. They also aren't (generally) capable to teaching more advanced subject matters (high school chemistry/physics/biology, calculus, foreign languages, etc).

I view home schooling the same as home dentistry - only a good idea if you are a trained dentist and even then not the best idea.

A well educated adult should have no problem with HS chemistry, physics, biology, or calculus. As for foreign languages, the schools I went to did a horrible job with it. I took 5 years of Spanish and can't speak a bit. You learn language with immersion, not sitting in a chair conjugating verbs.

 

[Mursilis]

Unfortunately, I also have issues with parents homeschooling their children. There's so much variance in their qualifications and 'lesson plans' that its impossible to say whether or not the children are getting a quality education.

This exact same complaint could be made about public schools.

Homeschooling, like public schooling, varies in quality immensely. My children were homeschooled for two years when we grew dissatisified with our neighborhood public school, and didn't like the private options. In our local public school, far too much classtime was wasted teaching and re-teaching the lessons to children of "undocumented" immigrants, who were barely fluent in English. We homeschooled for two years, and then placed the kids in a public magnet school, where they've consistently made honor roll. Homeschooling is no worse than public schooling.

 

[Uhtrinity]

While I'm far from an expert on childhood development, I believe I gained the ability to deal with aggressive and confrontational people by building self confidence, not by getting my underwear pulled over my head in the locker room.

I know a lot of people think you build mettle by surviving these experiences, but too many times I've seen kids that have to deal with this just retreat inside a shell.

Actually, now my interest is picqued, I'll have to find a book about this sort of thing...

I agree as that was me. Due to my short height up into high school and stuttering I was picked on a lot. Overcoming that is too much to ask of someone that age. As a result I became very introverted which has been a huge challenge even now. Currently I work and teach in a public charter school that has a no bully policy. It is awesome to see kids who were bullies and bullied grow both academically and socially due to the policy. The kids still build mettle due to positive reinforcement of their actions as well as being required to take ownership of their negative actions.

For anyone to say that bullying has a positive result is just wrong.

 

[Uhtrinity]

Home schooling is so popular now that most parents participate in social groups with their children. They have just as much of an opportunity to interact socially as other children.

Personally I have seen the entire range of well home schooled kids that lacked the academic as well social education to those that excelled at whatever they were exposed to. There is a huge problem in standardization for those who are home schooled and the bar is set rather low only expecting them to pass a GED which a lot of regular 10th graders could pass.

 

[Zebo]

In my town homeschoolers have all the advantages of public's facilities including sports, forensics, and study abroad. I don't believe in it because I feel social interaction and cultural immersion in essential to healthy kids later but they do go to private even though I'm not religious I think catholic schools offer cheap ($2100 per semester) and good education. About 65% is Mexican and rest is white.

PS - As far as bullies they are biggest pussies and a good sock in the nose or a baseball bat solves that most of the time. I was so crazy no one even thought of messing with me after I nearly cut some bullies arm off with a broken bottle in 6th grade. Later in HS I developed a little size, played all the sports and tended to defend people from the bullies that ran with us. Usually a simple "uncool man" would do it from me.

 

[DrPizza]

In my experience, I don't have much of a problem with "average" people educating their kids through homeschool until about middle school. That's about the point where "average" starts being inadequate for teaching the lessons their middle school aged children should be learning. I've had quite a few formerly home schooled kids enter high school. Most needed remediation.

On the other hand, almost without exception, the home schooled kids are more polite than their peers - and in this school, the vast majority of students are exceptionally well behaved.

 

[BoberFett]

How did she do when she went back to public? And now?

She started her first year (5th grade) in a private school this year. She's doing just fine socially. There was a bit of an adjustment period school-work-expectation-wise because now she has to operate on the teachers schedule rather than working at her own pace all the time, but she's come around and is doing just fine there as well.

 

[Darwin333]

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1968099-1,00.html

Okay, I admit, I'm not always the biggest fan of public schools. Nor private schools for that matter. I am, however, a proponent of choice. Unfortunately, I also have issues with parents homeschooling their children. There's so much variance in their qualifications and 'lesson plans' that its impossible to say whether or not the children are getting a quality education. Attending school isn't about just reading text books or listening to lectures either. There's a critical social aspect that children attending school must learn. It seems that many home schooled children, while they can be very book smart, have extremely limited social skills. One of the points they bring up is the issue of bullies. And yes, I too was bullied through most of elementary and middle school. It is a fact of life, though, that everyone will, at some point, have to interact with people they don't like. You may have to work for, with, or alongside people that are complete jerks and extremely rude. Its a fact of life.

Homeschooling is the absolute last thing our education system should be concerned with.

 

[Bateluer]

A well educated adult should have no problem with HS chemistry, physics, biology, or calculus. As for foreign languages, the schools I went to did a horrible job with it. I took 5 years of Spanish and can't speak a bit. You learn language with immersion, not sitting in a chair conjugating verbs.

While I agree with you on foreign language, immersion provides a better learning environment, I vehemently disagree with you on chemistry, physics, biology, and calculus. I took HS Chem, and AP bio in high school, today, having never used any of these fields in my daily life or job, any skills I acquired in those courses are long gone. I know and work with a number of very smart, sharp people, but wouldn't expect more than a very basic understanding of chemistry and biology, some basic physics formulas, and zero calculus. Doesn't mean these people are poorly educated, it just means there's no reason for them to know those fields as it provides no practical benefit to their career or personal lives.

 

[BoberFett]

Just wanted to add that I agree about the limits of home schooling. Grade school is about as far as the average person should be attempting to educate their children. Just thinking back to what I learned beginning in middle school, there's no way I would be able to provide a well rounded enough education on my understanding of things outside of my specialization. By 6th or 7th grade, schools should begin teaching things at a level more advanced than a non-specialist could teach adequately. If they are not, that's a problem with the schools that needs to be addressed.