Give me a reason to start using Linux.

[BoomAM]

Hi.
Ive been interested in running Linux for a while now, but have never found a reason for me to use it over XP.
What advantages would it give me over windows?

Im currenty DLing Knoppix Linux via BitTorrent, as ive heard that it can be run from a CD, negating the need for it to write to the HD. Which imo is a good idea for me to check out what linux is all about, without making changes to my HD. That and its got a interface thats very similar to windows, so it`ll be easy for me to understand.

So....what reason do i have to use it on a regular basis?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Spyro]

I've probably replied to threads like this hundreds of times.....

Let me make this quick:
- Complete Freedom
- Complete Freeness
- Server OS (stability, server stuff, 31337)
- Fun 4 Programmers (C++, Python, etc, etc.)

I'm sure that I could think of a few more reasons, but for those, just run a search in the archive for the word Linux 🙂

 

[slicksilver]

Ok here is my experience...

I've been trying to learn and love Linux from the last 4 years and I must say that I absolutely hate it. I've tried Red Hat, Mandrake and other distros and I absolutely hate it. They are too difficult to install and the learning curve is too steep. I will say that IMO that it is nowhere even close to the friendliness of the Windows Operating System. It would take a day or two to teach my grandmom or granddad to learn how to use a computer if Windows is there but not when you have Linux installed. Its too much time consuming and even simple tasks are not really that simple. Time is every important...I'd say it is more important than money that is why I dont regret buying Windows. There is no way in hell/heaven that Linux would replace Windows as a desktop OS. I've heard that it works very well when it comes to server stuff...like mail server, web server and all. But that's not something I can comment on coz. I know zip about it.

JMO

Raj

 

[BoomAM]

Originally posted by: Spyro
- Complete Freedom
- Complete Freeness

This would imply i could do anything on it. Which i cant. I cant play (many decent) games on it. So thats that one gone out the window.

- Server OS (stability, server stuff, 31337)

I have no need for a server. At all.

- Fun 4 Programmers (C++, Python, etc, etc.)

Which can be done in windows, and i do. ST:BC uses Python for its scripts, and i mod in that alot.

Come on....some more reasons, apart from the novelty of it.

 

[drag]

It's better then windows 😛

Jk. The only way you'll know is to try it. At first It will be frustrating.

But hopefully you'll quickly realise that it took 5-10 years of using windows before it got to be "easy" and if you give linux a chance you'll learn that it's better to use a computer and make it do what you want instead of having to train yourself around it's limitations.

Linux is a very powerfull operating system based on a powerfull, flexible and proven design: Unix. After a only a year or two of using linux mostly all the time on my home computer I found using Windows generally gave me a headache. It's a awkward and slow user interface designed as a one size fits all. Nice for when your not sure what your doing, but it stands in the way of getting any real work done and slows you down.

But that's just my personal opinion. Other people have different ways to look at it.

And the best thing you can do is to try it out. Use it as your main OS, get rid of windows for a while. Kinda like if you want to learn to speak German the best way to learn is to go to Germany. Try to break your dependance of the GUI, learn a bit of the command line. The Gui is nice and good easy use, but command line = power. 🙂

And if you don't like it. No foul, Linux isn't for everybody. If it's to caotic check out the BSD's they have more structure and dependability. Or if not, then go back to Windows.

It won't hurt and you can benifit greatly from the experiance if you learn some of the ins and outs of Unix. Especially if your "into" computers for anything other then just gaming. Don't forget that aside from Personal Computing/Desktops Unix combined with Linux is still the dominate computer system out there worldwide. Last time I looked, Windows is about 25-30 percent of the server market, with Netware at about 15% or so. The rest is divided up between Unix/Linux. And Linux share has grown since then, although mostly into Unix markets. And that's not just web servers either, that's all servers. 🙂

edit: well the server market share is hard to follow. I've been looking up stuff and if you look at # of serves sold Microsoft is little bit less then 50% of the market and Linux is 26% and Unix is 13%, but if you look at it in terms of $ served the overall market was worth 10 billion dollars. 3.2 billion went to Windows and 4.6 billion went to Unix and 538 million went to Linux. So go figure.

 

[drag]

Originally posted by: BoomAM

- Server OS (stability, server stuff, 31337)

I have no need for a server. At all.

Realy, no mp3 server? no Webserver? no file server? non at all? Not even just for the fun of it?

Come-on. You know you want to break out that old pentium 2 box you got sitting around and want to something usefull with it. 😛


edit: don't forget about gaming servers. It requires less horse power then you think to run a gaming server, if you don't play games on it as you serve from it. Even if many games never got ported to Linux, gobs and gobs of standalone game servers have .

 

[BoomAM]

Originally posted by: drag
Realy, no mp3 server? no Webserver? no file server? non at all? Not even just for the fun of it?

Not really. I have no need for a network of any type. My MP3 server is my iPod.

Come-on. You know you want to break out that old pentium 2 box you got sitting around and want to something usefull with it. 😛

That old P2 of mine (how did you know i had one!), was sold off so i could pre-order a gamecube.

Prehaps in the future a server would be an idea. For example, by january, i`ll have everything but a CD Drive/.Monitor/Kettle Lead to build a decently speced second PC. Which would go in the room next to mine, with a hole through the wall so i can connect the two together to share the connection. I was thinking of running Linux on the second, having the ADSL line going to that, with it acting as a router. That`ll get rid of a 5% CPU overhead from the USB modem, and would provide a second pc for my friends to access the internet on, without distrubing me. And would save me the money of buying another copy on XP. But thats something to consider in the future.

 

[CTho9305]

Linux is good if you want a server (you don't seem to), or you want a toy (it's fun to play around with the insides of it and try stuff out). As a "getting work done" OS, it offers no benefits that I can think of. In fact, if "getting work done" involves real programming (e.g. not scripting languages, but a language like C/C++), you don't even get a debugger that's decent when you use linux.

 

[Mitzi]

TBH honest I find it difficult to recommend Linux over Windows to average Job Blogs users for any reason other than cost saving - i.e. most Linux distros and the applications are free.

I've used Linux on and off for 5 years (since starting University) - all my web development work, Perl, C and Java development was done on Linux. However, since finishing uni I've not booted into Suse at all - I use mainly XP. Though, I have been playing about with Knoppix the last week or so though because I wanted to see whats advances have been made 🙂

All I can say it try Knoppix out - you've nothing to loose and you'll be able to make the decision if you want to keep using it on a regular basis for yourself.

 

[BoomAM]

I`m still DLing Knoppix now.
66% done;
1h16m remaining
55KB/s DL rate
12KB/s UL rate.

Should be done when im back from work.

Any other opinions are welcome. Keep `em coming!

 

[NuclearFusi0n]

When properly configured it's secure as anything.
apt or portage will make your life a lot easier 🙂
Main reason I use linux: X + kahakai >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> windows window management
There are hundreds of X window mangers, giving you a ton of choice and power. not so with windows 😉

 

[NuclearFusi0n]

P.S. my kernel 2.6 box feels a damn lot faster than a wintendo box with the latest scheduler interactivity tweaks and the CFQ I/O scheduler
I can multitask a ton more efficently with the kahakai window manager (w00t for bingbong!!) and my computer can multitask a ton more efficently with better memory managment, and more interactive schedulers 🙂
Plainly and simply, I'm more productive in my linux environment.
I've been using Microsoft software since DOS 5 and Windows 3.1 when I was eight or so 🙂P) to windows 98 and ME and 2000 and XP. I can honestly say that my Linux environment is just plain better than Microsoft's offering, and it can only get better as time goes on. A year ago I wouldn't even think of using linux full time, now I do. 😀

 

[Spyro]

Originally posted by: BoomAM

Originally posted by: Spyro
- Complete Freedom
- Complete Freeness

This would imply i could do anything on it. Which i cant. I cant play (many decent) games on it. So thats that one gone out the window.

Actually Linux can't read your mind, let you and your computer fly to the moon, or make you an instant millionaire either, so I don't think that your comparison is valid. If gaming is what floats your boat then try Winex. Linux's freedom comes from the fact that you can change the source code of the kernel and most apps easily and not get sued for it, and Linux's freeness comes from the fact that you don't have to pay a single cent for it (excluding bandwith costs).

- Server OS (stability, server stuff, 31337)

I have no need for a server. At all.

Yes, for now, but there is a lot of server stuff available and sometimes this makes things a lot easier.

- Fun 4 Programmers (C++, Python, etc, etc.)

Which can be done in windows, and i do. ST:BC uses Python for its scripts, and i mod in that alot.

Trust me, you'll know what I'm talking about after a while. Linux, for numerous reasons, seems more fun to program for than windows. Maybe I've just gotten too used to vim.....

Come on....some more reasons, apart from the novelty of it.

O.K.

Originally posted by: CTho9305
Linux is good if you want a server (you don't seem to), or you want a toy (it's fun to play around with the insides of it and try stuff out). As a "getting work done" OS, it offers no benefits that I can think of. In fact, if "getting work done" involves real programming (e.g. not scripting languages, but a language like C/C++), you don't even get a debugger that's decent when you use linux.

What planet are you from? Linux s great for developing in C++, etc. Kdevelop, gdb, gcc, vim, etc are all C++ oriented. You can use open office for your office work. GIMP for your image work. Blender for your 3d work (if that's what you do 😛). The list goes on and on. The only two things that Linux isn't too good at right now are games and specialized, in-house windows apps.

 

[NuclearFusi0n]

Originally posted by: CTho9305
Linux is good if you want a server (you don't seem to), or you want a toy (it's fun to play around with the insides of it and try stuff out). As a "getting work done" OS, it offers no benefits that I can think of. In fact, if "getting work done" involves real programming (e.g. not scripting languages, but a language like C/C++), you don't even get a debugger that's decent when you use linux.

http://sources.redhat.com/gdb/ ?

 

[Nothinman]

This would imply i could do anything on it. Which i cant. I cant play (many decent) games on it. So thats that one gone out the window.

If all you want is a gaming machine then stop the download now because it won't happen with Linux yet. For just about everything else Linux is just as good or better than Windows and it's free. I've been using Debian on my main workstation for ~4 years now and while I have Windows in VMWare for the occasional video that transcode can't handle I don't ever touch Windows at home, infact I find almost everything easier in Linux now that I'm comfortable with the system.

 

[BlackOmen]

Originally posted by: NuclearFusi0n

Originally posted by: CTho9305
Linux is good if you want a server (you don't seem to), or you want a toy (it's fun to play around with the insides of it and try stuff out). As a "getting work done" OS, it offers no benefits that I can think of. In fact, if "getting work done" involves real programming (e.g. not scripting languages, but a language like C/C++), you don't even get a debugger that's decent when you use linux.

http://sources.redhat.com/gdb/ ?

Don't forget DDD. It is a nice graphical frontend for gdb, and just as powerful. It is also a lot better than the joke that is the debugger in visual studio.

 

[BoomAM]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

This would imply i could do anything on it. Which i cant. I cant play (many decent) games on it. So thats that one gone out the window.

If all you want is a gaming machine then stop the download now because it won't happen with Linux yet. For just about everything else Linux is just as good or better than Windows and it's free. I've been using Debian on my main workstation for ~4 years now and while I have Windows in VMWare for the occasional video that transcode can't handle I don't ever touch Windows at home, infact I find almost everything easier in Linux now that I'm comfortable with the system.

If i could justify the hassle of setting up a seperate partition for Linux and running a dual boot then i would use it for everything but gaming.
Leaving XP for games only, and linux for everything else (internet, email, work, music, iPod access, playing DVDs, Playing DivX/X-Vid files, ect😉
But at the moment it doesnt look like something thats worth the hassle.

 

[rmrf]

Do you want us to talk you into using linux or do you want our opinions? I use linux for my desktop, and server applications. I spent $30 and joined transgaming.com to get a copy of winex, and now I can run most games with linux. In my opinion, linux can be used for anything I need to get done. The only reason I use Windows anymore is because my machine at work has it. I would recommend trying it, if you don't like it, stop. There is no need to torture yourself for 4 years trying to learn something that you hate. If you go into it with an open mind, and are willing to learn, you might actually get something out of it.

my $0.02 🙂

 

[CTho9305]

Originally posted by: NuclearFusi0n

Originally posted by: CTho9305
Linux is good if you want a server (you don't seem to), or you want a toy (it's fun to play around with the insides of it and try stuff out). As a "getting work done" OS, it offers no benefits that I can think of. In fact, if "getting work done" involves real programming (e.g. not scripting languages, but a language like C/C++), you don't even get a debugger that's decent when you use linux.

http://sources.redhat.com/gdb/ ?

gdb sucks. visual studio is MUCH faster to use. You get a nice watch pane, another for the current stack frame, it's easy to move around the call stack and see a lot of info at once. with gdb you get to watch your data scroll by instead of update itself in one place, with highlighting showing what has changed.

Originally posted by: BlackOmen

Originally posted by: NuclearFusi0n

Originally posted by: CTho9305
Linux is good if you want a server (you don't seem to), or you want a toy (it's fun to play around with the insides of it and try stuff out). As a "getting work done" OS, it offers no benefits that I can think of. In fact, if "getting work done" involves real programming (e.g. not scripting languages, but a language like C/C++), you don't even get a debugger that's decent when you use linux.

http://sources.redhat.com/gdb/ ?

Don't forget DDD. It is a nice graphical frontend for gdb, and just as powerful. It is also a lot better than the joke that is the debugger in visual studio.

ddd is an ugly, hard to use frontend on gdb. a good frontend might be ok, but ddd is not good. I think an MSVC-like frontend could be written for gdb, because gdb does have the features needed, it just doesn't display info all that well. I find most people who flame visual studio haven't actually used it's debugger.

Originally posted by: Spyro

Originally posted by: CTho9305
Linux is good if you want a server (you don't seem to), or you want a toy (it's fun to play around with the insides of it and try stuff out). As a "getting work done" OS, it offers no benefits that I can think of. In fact, if "getting work done" involves real programming (e.g. not scripting languages, but a language like C/C++), you don't even get a debugger that's decent when you use linux.

What planet are you from? Linux s great for developing in C++, etc. Kdevelop, gdb, gcc, vim, etc are all C++ oriented. You can use open office for your office work. GIMP for your image work. Blender for your 3d work (if that's what you do 😛). The list goes on and on. The only two things that Linux isn't too good at right now are games and specialized, in-house windows apps.

The fact that something is C++ oriented doesn't mean it is good at anything. Netscape 4.x was aimed at web browsing and it sure sucked. Mozilla is aimed at web browsing, and it rocks.

gcc has been consistently shown to produce relatively slow code (it's aimed at portability, not speed...). see my gdb complaints above. vim... I don't know WHY you'd mention vim over emacs to someone switching from windows, but to either one: if I have a class foo, and an object bar of type foo, and I type "foo.", neither gives me a list of options. Visual Studio does. kdevelop may, but I don't use kdevelop.

In what way is Open Office better than MS Office? It's slightly less compatible... there's no reason someone who already has office would want to switch, and most windows users already have MS Office one way or another. Gimp is a pain to use, but then again I can't use photoshop either so that might just be me 😉. Regarding Blender - if you're serious about 3d work, you'd choose 3ds max/maya/lightwave. 3ds max doesn't run on linux (I think it's renderfarm client does, but the GUI doesn't), but I think the others do.

 

[Nothinman]

ddd is an ugly, hard to use frontend on gdb. a good frontend might be ok, but ddd is not good. I think an MSVC-like frontend could be written for gdb, because gdb does have the features needed, it just doesn't display info all that well. I find most people who flame visual studio haven't actually used it's debugger.

Probably because VS is expensive while DDD is free, it's not possible for everyone to buy a copy of VS for personal use.

kdevelop may, but I don't use kdevelop.

Maybe you should, it's an attempt at making a VS-like IDE and IMO it does a really good job.

In what way is Open Office better than MS Office? It's slightly less compatible... there's no reason someone who already has office would want to switch, and most windows users already have MS Office one way or another.

Unless you buy pre-built PCs with bundled MS Office software every few years eventually you'll need to upgrade and MS Office is expensive.

Gimp is a pain to use, but then again I can't use photoshop either so that might just be me

GIMP isn't bad, it's really close to Photoshop without the all-encompassing MDI interface. And there's also film-gimp which was forked from GIMP for post production work and used on some big name movies, so GIMP can't be that bad =)

Regarding Blender - if you're serious about 3d work, you'd choose 3ds max/maya/lightwave. 3ds max doesn't run on linux (I think it's renderfarm client does, but the GUI doesn't), but I think the others do.

If you're serious about 3D work you'll probably be using whatever software your production company buys for you, otherwise blender is a very capable, free 3D renderer. Maya and Lightwave do work on Linux, but again the price is prohibitive for someone just getting their feet wet.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: CTho9305
gcc has been consistently shown to produce relatively slow code (it's aimed at portability, not speed...).

Do you know of an open source (or Free) compiler that works on enough platforms to be useful for a project that runs on multiple platforms? If you know of one, does that compiler have enough features to make it a worthwhile switch from gcc? Tendra is interresting, but I know one of the things holding it back on OpenBSD is that some of the features of gcc would have to be ported.

Maybe that illustrates your point a bit, but speed isn't everything. 😉

 

[Spyro]

The fact that something is C++ oriented doesn't mean it is good at anything. Netscape 4.x was aimed at web browsing and it sure sucked. Mozilla is aimed at web browsing, and it rocks.

I used to like Netscape 4.x......

gcc has been consistently shown to produce relatively slow code (it's aimed at portability, not speed...). see my gdb complaints above.

With a cpu over 200mhz I really don't think that the speed difference matters in day to day usage.

vim... I don't know WHY you'd mention vim over emacs to someone switching from windows,

Ummm, I dunno. Maybe because they might have preffered some type of notepad-alike in windows. But I think you're right, you can play Nethack in Emacs. I uppose that's pretty hard to beat 😛

if I have a class foo, and an object bar of type foo, and I type "foo.", neither gives me a list of options. Visual Studio does. kdevelop may, but I don't use kdevelop.

Try it, you'll like it. It's a really nice,complete IDE for C/C++ type stuff.

In what way is Open Office better than MS Office? It's slightly less compatible... there's no reason someone who already has office would want to switch, and most windows users already have MS Office one way or another.

Well, you don't have to pay over a hundred bucks every time an upgrade comes out (actually you don't have to pay anything....). It's almost fully compatible with MS Office. You don't have to register with MS or anybody for that matter.

Gimp is a pain to use, but then again I can't use photoshop either so that might just be me 😉.

If you don't use photoshop then what are comparing the GIMP too, MS Paint 😀 The GIMP can do everything that photoshop can do, and a lot of big companies use it, but that's O.k. You can use TuxPaint if you need a simple Paint program 🙂

Regarding Blender - if you're serious about 3d work, you'd choose 3ds max/maya/lightwave. 3ds max doesn't run on linux (I think it's renderfarm client does, but the GUI doesn't), but I think the others do.

Other stuff is available (Maya for Linux is a bit dated, though, last I checked). Use whatever floats your boat.

 

[CTho9305]

Originally posted by: Spyro

vim... I don't know WHY you'd mention vim over emacs to someone switching from windows,

Ummm, I dunno. Maybe because they might have preffered some type of notepad-alike in windows. But I think you're right, you can play Nethack in Emacs. I uppose that's pretty hard to beat 😛

MS Excel has a flight simulator, so I think users should be directed to the *nix text editor that has a psychologist, web browser, and a bunch of games built in 😉.

if I have a class foo, and an object bar of type foo, and I type "foo.", neither gives me a list of options. Visual Studio does. kdevelop may, but I don't use kdevelop.

Try it, you'll like it. It's a really nice,complete IDE for C/C++ type stuff.

It's not installed on the *nix servers here. Oh well. I'll keep it in mind for future use.

Gimp is a pain to use, but then again I can't use photoshop either so that might just be me 😉.

If you don't use photoshop then what are comparing the GIMP too, MS Paint 😀 The GIMP can do everything that photoshop can do, and a lot of big companies use it, but that's O.k. You can use TuxPaint if you need a simple Paint program 🙂

Oh yeah, I forgot to complain about the HUGE selection of apps to do each thing... like 5000 different drawing apps, 5000 text editors and so on, all with their quirks, all completely different. The lack of standards sucks 😉. It was very difficult finding a good app for making a block diagram last week... I ended up using xfig. I suppose if you have the time to go through all the different programs, choice is good 😉.

Don't get me wrong... linux is a fine OS for some people. It just won't be on my desktop any time soon.

 

[Spyro]

Oh yeah, I forgot to complain about the HUGE selection of apps to do each thing... like 5000 different drawing apps, 5000 text editors and so on, all with their quirks, all completely different.

Actually, windows has a ton of apps that can do each thing too, but you have to pay for those so you really never consider them. Linux distros come with them, so instead of asking which ones better most people try them all out and pick a favorite. One that fits best. What's wrong with that?

The lack of standards sucks 😉.

Standards or monopoly lock-in?

It was very difficult finding a good app for making a block diagram last week... I ended up using xfig. I suppose if you have the time to go through all the different programs, choice is good 😉.

If you don't have the time, then post the question somewhere.

Don't get me wrong... linux is a fine OS for some people. It just won't be on my desktop any time soon.

It's on all three of mine. I play games, use office apps, I don't edit config files with vim, I listen to mp3s, do programming, browse the web, fiddle around with ldraw and pov-ray, etc, etc, etc..... Oh well, whatever floats your boat.

 

[NuclearFusi0n]

I've never tried KDevelop; I use the GTK+ based Anjuta at my IDE. 🙂 If you get a chance to play around with it, go for it; it's nice.