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Girl, 10, Arrested for Using Knife to Cut Food at School
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Anubis
No Lifer
lemme tell you a story, 15 years ago I was 11, that?s what 5-6th grade something like that, anyway when I was in school then I FOUND a Swiss army knife on the playground, simple 4-6 tool type one, thought it was pretty sweet, I picked it up and took it to the office and gave it to the secretary and told her that I found it on the playground and she thanked me for bringing it to her, she then said that if no one claimed that they had lost said knife in 2 weeks I could have it, and 2 weeks later she gave it to me and I took it home, rode the bus with it and everything
Zero tolerance policies are fucking stupid and those that believe that they are correct are also fucking stupid
You have no idea what you're talking about. In the school I went to, they always stressed that they wanted us to THINK. Especially the *gasp* Bible teacher. Well-thought-out, reasoned arguments were worth much more than just spouting the "party line" in his mind. I got a MUCH better education than I would have at a US public school, including a wonderful science education and good critical thinking skills. And they were also good about making the punishment fit the crime, instead of instantly calling down the thunder on anyone who dared to break the smallest rule. Granted, this was overseas.
But go ahead and live with your own personal ideas...I suppose they're more comforting for you. Easier than, y'know, thinking.
DrPizza
Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
It's unfortunate that you're viewing this through your own experiences... Why should a 10 year old know not to bring a knife to school "regardless of the circumstance"?? I'm a teacher in a school and there are several circumstances where I would expect students to bring a knife, and not a little steak knife either. Fortunately, the people who run the school districts in my neck of the woods aren't freaking idiots incapable of exercising good judgement; they're capable of understanding context.
lmao, my son told me that a couple of weeks ago, someone found a .22 bullet on the floor in the gym. It was merely disposed of, without any panic or concern. Common sense was applied.
MyThirdEye
Diamond Member
She's 10. She's 100 percent innocent, imo.
MrDudeMan
Lifer
Nothing is unfortunate about me thinking kids shouldn't be bringing knives to school and it has nothing to do with my experiences. Nice touch calling people freaking idiots. That really proved your point.
Please list some of the reasons for a 10 year old to bring a knife to school with the understanding that any school activity involving a knife should be taken care of by the teacher.
DrPizza
Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
No, I don't think it's because you grew up in the inner city. I think that because you grew up in a climate with zero tolerance policies in effect, you've lost the ability to think rationally when it comes to the labels we use for every day objects. A steak knife is no more a weapon than a pencil. However, because it shares the same label as other objects that are created with the intention to be able to cause harm, you are unable to see a difference between the two objects.
I am very thankful every day that the district that I teach in doesn't have idiotic zero tolerance policies, or "zero intelligence policies." A couple of days ago, the social studies class was discussing WWI. One of the students brought in several items that his great grandfather had carried, including a bayonet to help add to the discussion. (edit: I'm sure this would be a "felony" at the school in question.)
Yesterday, the 8th grade social studies teacher had a Revolutionary War expert come in and talk to students. As part of his demonstration, he showed the students what a musket from that era looked like, how it worked, and fired it (outside of course) for each class. (Obviously without a ball inside, i.e. fired blanks.) (Again, parents would probably freak out in some school districts; we did inform ours however, just so they were aware.)
I've chaperoned many backpacking trips for our students; some day trips, some over-night hikes. We don't forbid students to bring pocket knives. Almost all of the students carry one. The knives they bring are incredibly useful TOOLS, not "weapons." (So, if you can imagine for a moment, a bus load of students, many of whom were sitting there showing off their knives to each other during the bus ride.)
It's a shame that you never had such opportunities in the Bronx. And, it's a shame that you never had many of the opportunities that most children have out in "the country." Several years ago, when I first started posting here, I had a thread about how my 10 year old was a better marksman than I was with a small rifle. The "city-people" were quick to condemn me for allowing such a young child to handle a "weapon." Just one more sign that some people are overly paranoid.
Kadarin
Lifer
Even suspension is not appropriate. If the school wants to be anal enough to prohibit steak knives, then they should confiscate the knife, and inform both the child and the parents as to why they are confiscating the knife (they should return it after school, say, by having a parent come pick it up).
Why suspend the child if she did nothing wrong? Arrest her? Felony? It's fucking ridiculous.
MrDudeMan
Lifer
Do you think 10 year olds are as clueless as toddlers? Have you ever had a conversation with one? I certainly don't think her punishment fits the crime, not even close, but the stigma attached to a knife, especially in todays society, is not above and beyond the grasp of a 10 year old. I find it hard to believe she was never presented with the zero tolerance policy her school is enforcing, and as a 10 year old she can remember that with no difficulty. It is unfortunate that they are being so ruthless when a less severe punishment would have taught her the lesson.
DrPizza
Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Your post is exactly what is a problem: the stigma attached to the words we use to describe objects, "stigma attached to a knife." You're lumping everything named "knife" into one category: weapon that doesn't belong in school. This is where I and others apparently disagree with you. Switch blade, butterfly knife, bowie knife: weapon. Steak knife: tool. Some of us have learned to differentiate. To do so takes a little bit of intelligence, not "no tolerance" policies.
When I was in high school we were all into camping and hiking, and almost all of us had knives. I had a friend who actually made his own...a big ol' Bowie knife that he spent ages sanding down from a solid hunk of steel, and fashioned a wooden handle for. We would go camping in the mountains, walk around the city, and go to school, sometimes keeping the knife in the locker, sometimes not. No one made a big deal about it. If a teacher or administrator caught you they might confiscate it and tell you not to bring it again. And there were no incidents. Not a one. What few fights happened in the school were universally fistfights.
Heck, we used to sneak around the school at night too, sometimes playing capture the flag, sometimes dressed in all black and trying to get to the roof of different buildings (no ladders or other "cheats" allowed). We once managed to get onto a roof overlooking the fountain near the guard shack, and threw rocks in it to make a big splash and bring the guard running. I would have a record a mile long if we had a "zero tolerance" policy...
Then again, I never got caught doing the serious stuff.:evil:
DrPizza
Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
You're right. "Idiots" is the wrong term to use. "Lazy cowards" is probably a better term. Cowards who enact zero-tolerance policies because they are too lazy and afraid to deal with incidents on a case-by-case basis. They're afraid to stand up against lawsuit-zealous lawyers in order to defend what's right and what's wrong. That way, they don't have to differentiate between Little Johnny StraightA with pointy scissors and Bobby Gangbanger with a butterfly knife, because they know Johny Gangbanger's parents just might file a discrimination lawsuit.
imported_Imp
Diamond Member
Your school must have rocked. I saw people getting taken to the office by bitchy lunch ladies for bringing knives to butter their bread or cut a steak. I even felt like a criminal when I brought peanut butter & jelly for lunch; bla bla bla, not like I was painting the walls with it.
EDIT: addition
Next logical step in today's over reactive society in enforcing retarded policies.
Edit #2: think some (many) of you are misinterpreting the sarcasm in my post. Original reply was a rant at how stupid and unnecessary what they use to do at my school, and apparently still do, is. For those who still can't read, no I do not support the current anti-knife policies.
Zenmervolt
Elite member
This is just plain ridiculous. I, and probably half my senior class, carried a pocket knife in HS. When I was sick, I carried my own aspirin/Tylenol/whatever. By the age of ten, a child is perfectly able to handle a knife responsibly.
Supervision for a steak knife? In the special education wing, sure, but for a normally-functioning ten-year-old that's just plain ridiculous.
Goddamn city folk and their nonsense.
ZV
Zenmervolt
Elite member
There is a big fucking difference between having a knife to cut your lunch and having a knife to knife someone. I'm 100% fine with everyone being allowed to have a knife in their lunchbox.
However, if the child ever threatens anyone with that knife, or attempts anything to harm someone with it, then, and only then, they should lose their privilege to have a knife.
You know, just like we do in the adult world. There is never any excuse for infringing upon the well-behaved simply because of what someone "might" do.
ZV
Zenmervolt
Elite member
That's the only difference. Sorry, but I'm not about to be inconvenienced just because some dumbfuck pisses his pants in fear of his own shadow. That's his own problem.
ZV
ShotgunSteven
Lifer
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