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gfFX dx9 speeds revealed

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Beyond3d is probably the premiere PC video graphics site on the 'net, imho.
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I was talking about just the forums. nothing else. Anandtechs technical forum is on a par with beyond3d's 3d technology and hardware forum in as far as content, but due to the nature of graphics card you will always get 2 sides ATI and Nvidia its just that some of the forum topics are spoiled by certain individuals (who I am sure regular readers would know who I mean) with their attitudes to both card manufacturers and other hardware sites.

Dont misunderstand my comments, I enjoy reading Beyond3d and over my summer break from teaching has been a daily visit, I was just trying (and probably failing) to add constructive comments (comes with the job). If I was to mark beyond3d as per my pupils work it would be;

😀 very precise technical information
🙁 needs to work on a presenting a fair conclusion

Luke

p.s. quite happy to discuss this further in a pub dave say in london 😀
 
Originally posted by: TheSnowman
na that review is completely irrelevant, unlike reviews were the card is running the most popular and optimized for benchmarks, and not running much aa or af. that is were the "poo poo" kicking is clearly going on; but by a few frames of second either way depending on the game. running i wide range of games at high quality settings and worrying about things like pixel shader performance is just a stupid way to go about selecting a high end card.



😀
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god forbid they run becnchmarks that drivers werent optimized for 🙂
 
my gef3 would only push 37-40fps compared to 60+ on my 9600pro in mgs2, does that make the 9600 better? hell no currently its textures are what looks like 8bit colour and its shadows are f**ked. Some games are just poorly optimised for one card and as such whilst they are worth a mention they are not always indicative of the cards performance in other situations.
 
i hear what you are saying mingon, i just find it odd that the 5900 ultra loses and loses badly at times when it benchmarked with games that arent usually used as a benchmark
 
so they are just optimizing drivers for games being used for benchmark?

oh well... the no.1 title is most important to them.. 🙁
 
Nvidia numbers will jump once they've had a chance to optimize the drivers for the benchmark, so if you own an Nvidia card I wouldn't worry....😛
 
Originally posted by: Wingznut
Originally posted by: Mingon
BUT unfortunately your forums have gone downhill towards fanATIcs...
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Not too long ago, the AT forums were completely lopsided with AMD fanantics... Does that mean that AnandTech is anti-Intel?

Of course not.

Beyond3d is probably the premiere PC video graphics site on the 'net, imho. 🙂
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Yup, "bias" is often just an indication of trends. At one time AMD was on an upswing due to their advantage with the Athlon, now ATI is on an upswing due to their advantage.
 
Dave can defend himself, but I'm not comfortable with the accusations here, and I don't like people from Anandtech assailing B3D as biased given what happened here. Sure, you don't represent Anandtech, nor are mostof you the same that seemed unconcerned by AT's 5900 review, but why do you hang out in AT's video forum and assail B3D for conducting an informed experiment? I don't see B3D retracting benchmarks because of improper or uninformed use.

Originally posted by: nemesismk2
Beyond3D are very well known for being anti-nvidia, I think I've made my point.
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What's your point, that they lied about the benchmarks they published? You'll note this article wasn't even listed on their front page, so they're not exactly advertising it, much less advertising it as proof that nVidia "sucks" and ATi "rocks." You now have two fairly mainstream benchmarks (as well as a number of lesser-known ones, like ShaderMark and RightMark) that show ATi's cards as superior in DX9 to nVidia's cards, and you also have Valve advising a 9800 over a 5900 for HL2. When will you accept that declaring that DX9 is faster with ATi than with nVidia is not a fanboy's fevered dream, but a statement of fact? Hell, you yourself said that the 5600 is slower than a 4200 and, thus, a worse choice. Should I label you as anti-nVidia? Being pro one company doesn't automatically make you anti another. And you can't hide the fact that ATi has seriously one-upped nVidia for the past year, and most reviews reflect that.

Originally posted by: Mingon
Also 'the GeForce FX 5200 has a good feature list, if just not performance' I would have thought a site built on its reputation alone would leave out what can only be called a 'bitchy' comment, yes the 5200 is not 'that' quick but its feature list is better than its opposite number (9200) and its performance is on a par.
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You're confusing "bitchy" with "truthful." B3D doesn't gloss over a card's shortcomings, as many larger sites may be forced to do in order not to anger sponsors. Would you rather them end their reviews like AnandTech usually does, saying "company X's card was good, but wait till you see what company Y has in store for you soon!" Yes, the 5200 has more usable AA compared to a 9200, but no card with 200MHz DDR memory will be great with AA. As for DX9, well, so far two of two DX9 games indicate they will not use DX9 by default with the 5200 series. What else on the feature list stands out to you? Performance?

As for moderating B3D's forums, would you rather Dave lock each thread that fails to conform to his viewpoint? I agree that B3D's forum has more than its share of cheerleaders, but the intelligent readers there can self-moderate by ignoring the noise and focusing on the signal.

Originally posted by: sinthon
That is a BS Benchmarking Program; completely against Nvidia. Look anywhere else and Nvidia Geforce FX 5900 Ultra kicks the poo poo out of Radeon 9800 Pro 256MB.
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As I suggested in another thread, you need to read more and make fewer uninformed, grandiose statements.
 
This is my whole bottom line on the nV ~ ATI thing at current.

nV is a little slower right now and does optimize for benches, the cards still play more games out of the box than ATI.

ATI is giving the best bang for the buck, you may need to do a little tweaking for some games but the driver team is doing far better than it has in the past.

DX8 games ATI wins
DX9 I call a wait and see
OGL games nV wins

Rumors are always flying about some great driver set for nV, the all fixing 50xx's are the latest drooler icon.
Again, I call a wait and see, it'de be funny if they were 64bit only.

:| not
 
On a side note, I find it amusing as a long time nVidia user, that ATi still doesn't have their refresh rate problems fixed under XP yet. Sure, you can use Refresh Force, but takes some tweaking to get everything working again (Like BF1942).

OTOH, I really like the performance of my 9600 Pro. Useable AA/AF is nice. 🙂
 
ATi includes a refresh rate override in their drivers (Display Settings > Advanced > ATi Monitors > click on your monitor). It doesn't work for you?

Oh, BF1942 is probably a special case, unless the devs patched it to allow a refresh rate other than 60Hz by default (I know the demo required editing a config file). How is that ATi's fault?
 
You're confusing "bitchy" with "truthful." B3D doesn't gloss over a card's shortcomings, as many larger sites may be forced to do in order not to anger sponsors. Would you rather them end their reviews like AnandTech usually does, saying "company X's card was good, but wait till you see what company Y has in store for you soon!" Yes, the 5200 has more usable AA compared to a 9200, but no card with 200MHz DDR memory will be great with AA. As for DX9, well, so far two of two DX9 games indicate they will not use DX9 by default with the 5200 series. What else on the feature list stands out to you? Performance?
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No the tone is different between the two cards considering they offer the same performance one is chastised for being slow the other it is OK because of its perceived market value. As for your DX9 comment, that is purely down to coders, gunmetal as a for instance runs OK on the 5200, how does the 9200 run the same game? As for Anandtechs comments, they are hook lines pure and simple, if you understand how the site has changed you would understand why they are their.

I am just trying to explain, in a polite manner, why I think the perceived image of beyond3d is that of being pro ATI. If you cannot understand my comments or agree with them fair enough, but, I am just trying to offer an explanation.


As for moderating B3D's forums, would you rather Dave lock each thread that fails to conform to his viewpoint? I agree that B3D's forum has more than its share of cheerleaders, but the intelligent readers there can self-moderate by ignoring the noise and focusing on the signal.
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No I am not talking locking the thread, but messages can be checked/edited and people warned when comments such as 'Nvidia/hocp/anandtech sucks' seem to ruin an intelligent thread. Beyond3d has always been noted for its forum, I have been reading the forums even when the main site was down and it was that which kept the site's reputation going during its abscense.
 
Originally posted by: Pete
ATi includes a refresh rate override in their drivers (Display Settings > Advanced > ATi Monitors > click on your monitor). It doesn't work for you?
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Haven't tried it. At any rate, this is a hack and not a real solution. The card should default to whatever I pick in the Windows monitor settings. If i pick max, it should take max at every res. If I pick 75Hz, it should be 75Hz at every res. nV's had this right for years now. How hard can it really be?

I can handle forcing the card to a specific res. I visit AT. I'm a smart guy. Not everyone who uses a computer is going to know how to use a refresh forcer, let alone use it properly.

My point being, I guess, that ATi's drivers have a ways to go to work 'out of the box' perfectly for newbies or 'end users'.
 
Looks to me like reports of poor PS2.0 performance on FX cards is correct
Haven't tried it. At any rate, this is a hack and not a real solution
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I've actually used it, it works fine. Why is it not a real solution?
 
Originally posted by: rbV5
Looks to me like reports of poor PS2.0 performance on FX cards is correct
Haven't tried it. At any rate, this is a hack and not a real solution
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I've actually used it, it works fine. Why is it not a real solution?
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Not only that question, but aren't drivers just hacks in themselves?
 
Originally posted by: Mingon

As for moderating B3D's forums, would you rather Dave lock each thread that fails to conform to his viewpoint? I agree that B3D's forum has more than its share of cheerleaders, but the intelligent readers there can self-moderate by ignoring the noise and focusing on the signal.
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No I am not talking locking the thread, but messages can be checked/edited and people warned when comments such as 'Nvidia/hocp/anandtech sucks' seem to ruin an intelligent thread. Beyond3d has always been noted for its forum, I have been reading the forums even when the main site was down and it was that which kept the site's reputation going during its abscense.
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LOL. Surely Anandtech forums are the same, comments about B3D sucking almost ruined this thread, people decided that the information was automatically invalid because of its source.
 
Originally posted by: Crapgame
nV is a little slower right now and does optimize for benches, the cards still play more games out of the box than ATI.
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When i first got my 9700pro in January, using Catalyst 2.4, i could run all of my games with no problems at all. To this day, i havnt had a game problem related to my video drivers. And the performance is excellent as well, and it keeps getting better.
 
Agreed Boom. It is just hard for some to accept that ATI's drivers are high quality after the few years of bad drivers. ATI dug a hole and now they have to prove they are out of it.
 
well after numerous blue screens, followed by tedious re-install and then finally playing games on my 9600 pro, i have found problems in 2 of the 3 games I have installed. granted they are metal gear solid 2 and gta vice city, but the driver problems do still exist and their is no getting away from it.
 
It's been a fun read, all of this bickering. I'm waiting to see the rest of the DX9 crop before I make a judgement, but ATI is looking pretty good right now...
 
try the ati patch for mgs2 Mingon. as for vice city, there are some instructions in the readme as to what should do when you change videocards.
 
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