Getting in shape

[AbAbber2k]

Originally posted by: JohnCU
hmmm, i reconsider my calculation of calories burned per day, but it is true that his metabolic rate will increase with exercise.

i still stand by my 15/60/25 ratio, and i have links to back that up. where are yours? just because he may feel more full, doesn't mean anything nutritionally. it's about will power, not about how full you feel. you should eat low-energy-density foods to feel full, aka vegetables and fruit, not an oreo that has 50 calories per piece.

rofl, low-energy-density. The fact that you can only use popular junk diet catch phrases proves you know nothing about nutrition or fitness. What he needs to be eating is "high nutrient density" foods while maintaining a reduced caloric intake. In addition, your idea of proper nutrient ratios is absurd. Only a highly active endurance athlete would need a macro profile like that. In addition, like I said, recent studies prove that higher protein diets reduce muscle loss during dieting. Go talk to the research head at ProClub in Seattle (I just spoke with him about such research a month and a half ago) and ask for his thoughts. I believe his name is J. Kreiger (Jason I think, but I forget atm).

As for me backing up my oppinions... why don't you go ask any number of the professors I've had during my studies in Kinesiology if you doubt my knowledge related to fitness, nutrition or anything human physiology related. My knowledge isn't based on some pamphlet I picked up at my local joe-shmoe gym.

Originally posted by: JohnCU
well, from more research, the 15*weight in pounds is not basal metabolic rate, it's resting rate + daily activites. the calculation assumes you are not sitting on your ass watching tv each day, i believe it to be a little more realistic.

If you think it's better, why don't you go talk to the ACSM (that's the American College of Sport Medicine, the gold standard in anything fitness related) and ask them to change their standards? I'm sure they'd love to hear your opinion. Talk to any nutrition or fitness professional. They'll tell you they use 1cal/kg/hr as BMR/RMR (basal/resting metabolic rate) and use that in addition to calculated energy expenditures based on MET theory.

Don't respond to my posts like I'm some fvcking moron who spends a day in the gym and suddenly assumes to know something. Go get a PhD in a related field and then maybe you can assume to be more well versed in such issues. I didn't pay for my education to listen to chumps give sh1tty advice.

 

[JohnCU]

Originally posted by: AbAbber2k

Originally posted by: JohnCU
hmmm, i reconsider my calculation of calories burned per day, but it is true that his metabolic rate will increase with exercise.

i still stand by my 15/60/25 ratio, and i have links to back that up. where are yours? just because he may feel more full, doesn't mean anything nutritionally. it's about will power, not about how full you feel. you should eat low-energy-density foods to feel full, aka vegetables and fruit, not an oreo that has 50 calories per piece.

rofl, low-energy-density. The fact that you can only use popular junk diet catch phrases proves you know nothing about nutrition or fitness. What he needs to be eating is "high nutrient density" foods while maintaining a reduced caloric intake. In addition, your idea of proper nutrient ratios is absurd. Only a highly active endurance athlete would need a macro profile like that. In addition, like I said, recent studies prove that higher protein diets reduce muscle loss during dieting. Go talk to the research head at ProClub in Seattle (I just spoke with him about such research a month and a half ago) and ask for his thoughts. I believe his name is J. Kreiger (Jason I think, but I forget atm).

WTF? what else would you call it? i gave an example of a nutritious food, compared to something unhealthy, as the basis for eating something that fills you up, but doesn't leave you with a load of calories.

you should have posted some credentials, and instead of naming off some random person and maybe list some hard references to back up your statements while you are at it.

my information is based on research that i've done, not some bullsh!t "OMG LOSE 10LBS in 2 DAYS" ad in the back of magazine. If you want to compare methodology you should do it constructively instead of jumping in and claiming to know all as you did at the start.

and you didn't even reply to most of what i wrote. you just basically said "you're wrong." ok, i'm wrong, prove it.

 

[jjyiz28]

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: Scourge
I wasn't buying into the crazy scheme of dropping weight fast. That can't be good for you, even if it did work. I think 1.5 pounds per week on average would work really well for me. As for the elliptical machine, is there a comparable exercise without the machine? My problem is that I live in podunk Wyoming, so I don't have many options in that regard.

jog at a pace where you can talk and jog at the same time. that's aerobics... this won't be a fast process. patience patience patience.

i keep hearing this. so you shouldn't push yourself at all?? lets say you jog a 6mph pace for 10 min. after that you can't hold conversation with your buddy at the same time, so you lower it to 5mph. after another 5 min., u are huffing and puffing and can't really talk at same time. so you lower it to 4mph, which is like a power walk.

so this is how you are supposed to do it? instead of doing 6mph for 10min. then pushing yourself to keep going for another 10 min.??

 

[JohnCU]

Originally posted by: Mike

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: Mike

Originally posted by: JohnCU
well, from more research, the 15*weight in pounds is not basal metabolic rate, it's resting rate + daily activites. the calculation assumes you are not sitting on your ass watching tv each day, i believe it to be a little more realistic.

all of these are estimates though so...YMMV.

I am a little confused by this. Are you saying your body weight * 15 is how many calories you burn everyday just by moving around and doing normal stuff? Or am I just reading this wrong?

from what i can find BMR, basal metabolic rate, is like, what you burn while you are resting, laying down, no stimulation to the CNS and no digestive processes going on (which a formula was given for above by someone else). You also have to take into account the thermic effect of food (you use energy to digest food) and most people do not lay in bed 24 hours a day, there is some basic activity, like walking around a store, sex, etc. So I'm thinking 15*weight in pounds is the total metabolic rate. If I had to guess I'd say it's a little higher than an exact number, but it should be a fairly decent guideline.

Interesting, I am losing about 4500-5000 calories a day by that calculation and my exercises I do. My caloric intake is est. at 2000 or less on some days. My weight loss isn't far off from those numbers considering my intake is a rough est. In the last 2 weeks I've lost 6 pounds, with the numbers est. me at an 8 lb loss.

EDIT: just used the weight/2.2 * 24 calculation which resulted in a 6.6 lb lost which seems to be on par with what I am seeing. I must say though, I do watch some TV and use the computer alot.

yeah, well, the guy asked for help and i told him what i knew from reading i've done so.. i'm open to constructive criticism/others research. 🙂

 

[JohnCU]

Originally posted by: jjyiz28

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: Scourge
I wasn't buying into the crazy scheme of dropping weight fast. That can't be good for you, even if it did work. I think 1.5 pounds per week on average would work really well for me. As for the elliptical machine, is there a comparable exercise without the machine? My problem is that I live in podunk Wyoming, so I don't have many options in that regard.

jog at a pace where you can talk and jog at the same time. that's aerobics... this won't be a fast process. patience patience patience.

i keep hearing this. so you shouldn't push yourself at all?? lets say you jog a 6mph pace for 10 min. after that you can't hold conversation with your buddy at the same time, so you lower it to 5mph. after another 5 min., u are huffing and puffing and can't really talk at same time. so you lower it to 4mph, which is like a power walk.

so this is how you are supposed to do it? instead of doing 6mph for 10min. then pushing yourself to keep going for another 10 min.??

why don't you build up gradually (over weeks or some time period)? power walk... to jog... to run. i don't know about pushing yourself. it depends on if you want aerobic or anarobic exercise, each one uses a different source of energy.

 

[imported_Mike]

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: Mike

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: Mike

Originally posted by: JohnCU
well, from more research, the 15*weight in pounds is not basal metabolic rate, it's resting rate + daily activites. the calculation assumes you are not sitting on your ass watching tv each day, i believe it to be a little more realistic.

all of these are estimates though so...YMMV.

I am a little confused by this. Are you saying your body weight * 15 is how many calories you burn everyday just by moving around and doing normal stuff? Or am I just reading this wrong?

from what i can find BMR, basal metabolic rate, is like, what you burn while you are resting, laying down, no stimulation to the CNS and no digestive processes going on (which a formula was given for above by someone else). You also have to take into account the thermic effect of food (you use energy to digest food) and most people do not lay in bed 24 hours a day, there is some basic activity, like walking around a store, sex, etc. So I'm thinking 15*weight in pounds is the total metabolic rate. If I had to guess I'd say it's a little higher than an exact number, but it should be a fairly decent guideline.

Interesting, I am losing about 4500-5000 calories a day by that calculation and my exercises I do. My caloric intake is est. at 2000 or less on some days. My weight loss isn't far off from those numbers considering my intake is a rough est. In the last 2 weeks I've lost 6 pounds, with the numbers est. me at an 8 lb loss.

EDIT: just used the weight/2.2 * 24 calculation which resulted in a 6.6 lb lost which seems to be on par with what I am seeing. I must say though, I do watch some TV and use the computer alot.

yeah, well, the guy asked for help and i told him what i knew from reading i've done so.. i'm open to constructive criticism/others research. 🙂

My research is the extent of this thread. 😀

I was just curious. As I said, I sleep in and consumer 3-5 hours a day watching TV/using a computer.

 

[JohnCU]

Originally posted by: Mike
My research is the extent of this thread. 😀

I was just curious. As I said, I sleep in and consumer 3-5 hours a day watching TV/using a computer.

I saw somewhere that sitting around watching TV is about 84~? calories per hour. And walking is 252 calories per hour (from that same source, i can't remember it at the moment but I can find it if necessary). I'm not sure how they come up with that exact amount, but maybe if you walked for an hour or so and reduced TV to 2-4 hours a day... every little bit helps.

Especially when it's so easy to drink 8 oz of OJ and gain 120 calories, but so hard to burn off those 120 calories. I thought drinking OJ would be healthy and it is, but I can eat an orange and drink a glass of water for half~ of that and fill more full than just drinking a glass of orange juice.

 

[jjyiz28]

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: jjyiz28

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: Scourge
I wasn't buying into the crazy scheme of dropping weight fast. That can't be good for you, even if it did work. I think 1.5 pounds per week on average would work really well for me. As for the elliptical machine, is there a comparable exercise without the machine? My problem is that I live in podunk Wyoming, so I don't have many options in that regard.

jog at a pace where you can talk and jog at the same time. that's aerobics... this won't be a fast process. patience patience patience.

i keep hearing this. so you shouldn't push yourself at all?? lets say you jog a 6mph pace for 10 min. after that you can't hold conversation with your buddy at the same time, so you lower it to 5mph. after another 5 min., u are huffing and puffing and can't really talk at same time. so you lower it to 4mph, which is like a power walk.

so this is how you are supposed to do it? instead of doing 6mph for 10min. then pushing yourself to keep going for another 10 min.??

why don't you build up gradually (over weeks or some time period)? power walk... to jog... to run. i don't know about pushing yourself. it depends on if you want aerobic or anarobic exercise, each one uses a different source of energy.

aerobic is what i want i think. you know, my cardio rather than sprinting.

i mean if you are in the army and a private after jogging 2 miles says to his sarge, hey sarge, like i am WAY above my target heart rate, i think i should be slowing down now. he will tell him tough cookie, STFU, and keep running if you don't want a azzwhupin. isnt' this how you want to improve your cardio?? pushing yourself, but not so hard that you puke of course, but not so little that you could discuss the politcal current events w/your buddy

 

[imported_Mike]

I burn 1000+ calories at the gym 5-6 times a week, but I have been trying to do little things as you mentioned. I'll park further away at school/work/stores. Partly to make myself walk the extra distance and partly b/c of my impatience. 😉 I can stand just sitting around in my car waiting for a "good" spot. 🙂

 

[JohnCU]

Originally posted by: jjyiz28

i mean if you are in the army and a private after jogging 2 miles says to his sarge, hey sarge, like i am WAY above my target heart rate, i think i should be slowing down now. he will tell him tough cookie, STFU, and keep running if you don't want a azzwhupin. isnt' this how you want to improve your cardio?? pushing yourself, but not so hard that you puke of course, but not so little that you could discuss the politcal current events w/your buddy

i'm not sure. but here's my understanding: between a certain range of heartrates, say X and Y, so X < HR < Y, (75%-80% of max heart rate) you burn one type of energy and this is aerobics (as long as the activity is performed for a minimum of 12 minutes => using oxygen, which is what aerobics means). Let's say you go above Y, then you start burning another type of energy, anarobic (energy comes from => lactic acid, atp-pc systems ) which is used for a limited time, like sprinting. you sprint, you run out of this energy, and you rest and its restored to a certain level and you can do it again. you do enough of this, and your body can store this energy more efficiently so you have more of it available (ie longer sprints).

but as far as pushing yourself, i don't know. i guess if you do everything gradually eventually you will get to where you want to be.

i'm sure the guy up there will chime and say i'm wrong since i don't have a degree in nutrition, but it's not rocket science. no one else seems to be adding much so...

 

[jjyiz28]

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: jjyiz28

i mean if you are in the army and a private after jogging 2 miles says to his sarge, hey sarge, like i am WAY above my target heart rate, i think i should be slowing down now. he will tell him tough cookie, STFU, and keep running if you don't want a azzwhupin. isnt' this how you want to improve your cardio?? pushing yourself, but not so hard that you puke of course, but not so little that you could discuss the politcal current events w/your buddy

i'm not sure. but here's my understanding: between a certain range of heartrates, say X and Y, so X < HR < Y, (75%-80% of max heart rate) you burn one type of energy and this is aerobics (as long as the activity is performed for a minimum of 12 minutes => using oxygen, which is what aerobics means). Let's say you go above Y, then you start burning another type of energy, anarobic (energy comes from => lactic acid, atp-pc systems ) which is used for a limited time, like sprinting. you sprint, you run out of this energy, and you rest and its restored to a certain level and you can do it again. you do enough of this, and your body can store this energy more efficiently so you have more of it available (ie longer sprints).

but as far as pushing yourself, i don't know. i guess if you do everything gradually eventually you will get to where you want to be.

i see isee. like i see woman on the bike, and they are reading a book. a book. while pedaling. are they really burning fat or improving their cardio by doing this?? is this any better than taking a slow walk around a neighborhood?

 

[JohnCU]

Originally posted by: jjyiz28

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: jjyiz28

i mean if you are in the army and a private after jogging 2 miles says to his sarge, hey sarge, like i am WAY above my target heart rate, i think i should be slowing down now. he will tell him tough cookie, STFU, and keep running if you don't want a azzwhupin. isnt' this how you want to improve your cardio?? pushing yourself, but not so hard that you puke of course, but not so little that you could discuss the politcal current events w/your buddy

i'm not sure. but here's my understanding: between a certain range of heartrates, say X and Y, so X < HR < Y, (75%-80% of max heart rate) you burn one type of energy and this is aerobics (as long as the activity is performed for a minimum of 12 minutes => using oxygen, which is what aerobics means). Let's say you go above Y, then you start burning another type of energy, anarobic (energy comes from => lactic acid, atp-pc systems ) which is used for a limited time, like sprinting. you sprint, you run out of this energy, and you rest and its restored to a certain level and you can do it again. you do enough of this, and your body can store this energy more efficiently so you have more of it available (ie longer sprints).

but as far as pushing yourself, i don't know. i guess if you do everything gradually eventually you will get to where you want to be.

i see isee. like i see woman on the bike, and they are reading a book. a book. while pedaling. are they really burning fat or improving their cardio by doing this?? is this any better than taking a slow walk around a neighborhood?

dude, i see the same f'n thing with sorority girls. reading a cosmo on the elliptical machine. but their heartrate IS increasing with the activity, as long as they are doing it with enough resistance to get their heartrate to a certain point for an extended period of time. i'm sure there is more to it than this, but from what i can tell, your heartrate is the biggest determination.

a slow walk around the neighborhood may not get your heartrate high enough to benefit from aerobics. it's all about heartrate.

 

[0roo0roo]

just don't exersize every day. it doesn't work that way. plus u'll burn out. and sugar soda is evil. better to eat a candy bar if you must, atleast it fills the belly a little.

 

[imported_Mike]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
just don't exersize every day. it doesn't work that way. plus u'll burn out.

why?

 

[0roo0roo]

your muscles need time to recover and rebuild after working out. you won't make gains if u keep straining them endlessly.

 

[JohnCU]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
just don't exersize every day. it doesn't work that way. plus u'll burn out. and sugar soda is evil. better to eat a candy bar if you must, atleast it fills the belly a little.

are you talking about working the same muscle groups everyday?

EDIT: oh ok, i see your response. i have some friends who work certain muscle groups one day, then the next day work another group, etc. Like, monday can be leg day, tuesday can be umm arms and whatever. I'm not huge into weight training yet so I don't know the proper way to break it up.

 

[imported_Mike]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
your muscles need time to recover and rebuild after working out. you won't make gains if u keep straining them endlessly.

Ah, I knew that. When you said exercising, did you mean working out? I exercise just about everday (cardio), but I mix up my weight lifting to even it out to everyother day.

 

[Playmaker]

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: Playmaker

Provide a link, I'd like to read about their methodology. It sounds about as useful as their food pyramid.

To the OP, and others interested in improving their diet, check out the link.

Text

i provided the reference, look it up for yourself. 🙂

I was hoping your link would indicate you actually read the report and didn't pull a quote off Wikipedia. That report emphasizes decreasing protein stocks worldwide and an increase in obesity when one consumes large amounts of protein and leads a sedentary lifestyle as the reasons for a lower protein recommendation. And this was a breakthrough?

For an active individual interested in working out, these recommendations are useless. This is a WHO study that attempts to be universal and apply to third-world countries. Obviously protein consumption will be low and carb consumption high.

 

[daveymark]

body for life program would be perfect for you

once you get in shape, move on to other programs/recommendations

 

[Playmaker]

Originally posted by: jjyiz28

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: jjyiz28

i mean if you are in the army and a private after jogging 2 miles says to his sarge, hey sarge, like i am WAY above my target heart rate, i think i should be slowing down now. he will tell him tough cookie, STFU, and keep running if you don't want a azzwhupin. isnt' this how you want to improve your cardio?? pushing yourself, but not so hard that you puke of course, but not so little that you could discuss the politcal current events w/your buddy

i'm not sure. but here's my understanding: between a certain range of heartrates, say X and Y, so X < HR < Y, (75%-80% of max heart rate) you burn one type of energy and this is aerobics (as long as the activity is performed for a minimum of 12 minutes => using oxygen, which is what aerobics means). Let's say you go above Y, then you start burning another type of energy, anarobic (energy comes from => lactic acid, atp-pc systems ) which is used for a limited time, like sprinting. you sprint, you run out of this energy, and you rest and its restored to a certain level and you can do it again. you do enough of this, and your body can store this energy more efficiently so you have more of it available (ie longer sprints).

but as far as pushing yourself, i don't know. i guess if you do everything gradually eventually you will get to where you want to be.

i see isee. like i see woman on the bike, and they are reading a book. a book. while pedaling. are they really burning fat or improving their cardio by doing this?? is this any better than taking a slow walk around a neighborhood?

They are burning fat, but very inefficiently. High intensity interval training is MUCH more effective for burning fat than solid-state cardio.

Use a bike or treadmill, sprint for 15secs, jog for 45sec, repeat 8-10 times with a 2min warm-up and cool-down. That's less than 15min for a great workout. Follow it up with intense weight lifting and use supersets with little rest and I guarantee you'll drop that fat quicker than with any other strategy. If you throw up at first you know you're doing it right.

This is a more efficient fat-burning tool than jogging for 45min with respect to burning fat. And unless you're specifically training for a long distance sporting event, your cardiovascular health will be fine.

 

[roguerower]

Originally posted by: MoPHo
Get an ergometer and row. it'll condition your upper and lower body...then do weights to build muscle

Smart man. Another good idea that will help complement the erg would be installing a pull-up bar. Build up those lats and back.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: AbAbber2k
Here's a list of activities that should burn about 500-600cal.
Running/Jogging for 45min (12min mile pace/5mpg) = 560cal
Biking, Stationary, etc for 1hr and 10min (similar pace) = 550cal
Circuit Training for 45min = 560cal

5mph? That's a fast walk for me...
Why would you go a similar pace on a bike? 5mph is almost falling over 😉

 

[AbAbber2k]

Originally posted by: Playmaker
They are burning fat, but very inefficiently. High intensity interval training is MUCH more effective for burning fat than solid-state cardio.

Use a bike or treadmill, sprint for 15secs, jog for 45sec, repeat 8-10 times with a 2min warm-up and cool-down. That's less than 15min for a great workout. Follow it up with intense weight lifting and use supersets with little rest and I guarantee you'll drop that fat quicker than with any other strategy. If you throw up at first you know you're doing it right.

This is a more efficient fat-burning tool than jogging for 45min with respect to burning fat. And unless you're specifically training for a long distance sporting event, your cardiovascular health will be fine.

HIIT is ok, but it's more anaerobic in nature. The best thing to do to utilize fat stores as energy is to maintain an intensity level of roughly 65% of your VO2Max through aerobic exercise (jogging, biking, etc). A good estimate of this is to get your heartrate up, check your pulse and apply the following formula. (220-age)(.65). So for the OP, he wants to shoot for about 131bmp. The reason for this is that Beta Oxidation, the energy system which utilizes fat stores for energy, kicks in during moderate intensity exercise after about 20min. This is also why you should do a MINIMUM of 30min at such an intensity. At </= 20min you're using other systems which utilize other fuels (CP, glucose, etc).

 

[AbAbber2k]

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: AbAbber2k
Here's a list of activities that should burn about 500-600cal.
Running/Jogging for 45min (12min mile pace/5mpg) = 560cal
Biking, Stationary, etc for 1hr and 10min (similar pace) = 550cal
Circuit Training for 45min = 560cal

5mph? That's a fast walk for me...
Why would you go a similar pace on a bike? 5mph is almost falling over 😉

Ya, I think I was off on the bike pace, but otherwise they're solid numbers. Congratulations on being in better shape than most of Americans. 😉

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: AbAbber2k

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: AbAbber2k
Here's a list of activities that should burn about 500-600cal.
Running/Jogging for 45min (12min mile pace/5mpg) = 560cal
Biking, Stationary, etc for 1hr and 10min (similar pace) = 550cal
Circuit Training for 45min = 560cal

5mph? That's a fast walk for me...
Why would you go a similar pace on a bike? 5mph is almost falling over 😉

Ya, I think I was off on the bike pace, but otherwise they're solid numbers. Congratulations on being in better shape than most of Americans. 😉

Yeah, I thought I was all hardcore on the bike, but I just talked to my uncle about going riding next weekend. His suggestion? "Yeah, I've been off the bike for months, and I'm recovering from this nasty virus, so what say we take a nice, easy ride over to Kirkland...55 miles or so"🙁