Getting house built, need advice for insulation

[Tiamat]

Did you check the cost on rigid foam insulation, cellulose or, recycled jeans?

I did not as I didn't know about them at the time of submitting the non-standard option request to the builder. Although, I think the R15 batt should be ok.

 

[DrPizza]

"R-15" is what it says on the roll of insulation. In reality, that's not necessarily what R-value your walls actually have due to air leaks, etc.

But, at $15k, it's a tough bullet to swallow to go with the foam. I was recently checking out foam prices. And, I started looking for a do-it-yourself option. Holy shit, that stuff is expensive. (And the do-it-yourself stuff is just a gimmicky thing.)

I'm still going to try to figure out a do-it-yourself method. i.e. find some place to rent the equipment, even if it's $1000 for the weekend. Plus, another $1000 or so for the chemicals. That doesn't help you though, since someone's doing everything for you. If the insulation is installed during the next few months, can you write off the expense on the taxes (30% or whatever it is?) Otherwise, I doubt that the investment would ever pay for itself. Unless you're paying cash up front for it, that $15,000 is going to appreciate, thanks to interest rates. With a 30 year mortgage and a 4% interest rate, that $15,000 actually costs you more than $25,000

So, unless you can average saving $71 per month (that's what it adds to the mortgage) for all 12 months of the year, it's probably not worth it. Of course, fuel and electricity prices will rise in the future. Planning on being there for 30 years?

Other questions though: does it better soundproof the home? Does it better protect spaces from mold (I'm under the impression that the closed cell foam does)? etc.

 

[Modelworks]

I was recently checking out foam prices. And, I started looking for a do-it-yourself option. Holy shit, that stuff is expensive. (And the do-it-yourself stuff is just a gimmicky thing.)

Foam is ridiculous in price. I was looking at it not for home insulation but for model making. Works the same as home insulation except you are pouring it into a mold. I just can't see how the chemicals used can cost so much. Enough a-b foam mix for an upper body part was over $100.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Other questions though: does it better soundproof the home? Does it better protect spaces from mold (I'm under the impression that the closed cell foam does)? etc.

Yes it does help with soundproofing and it is much better protecting from mold. In addition, no vapor barrier is needed with foam.

Insulation is very important with regards to energy usage and will add more resale value than the OP's home theater but, everyone has their own priorities.

 

[Tiamat]

"R-15" is what it says on the roll of insulation. In reality, that's not necessarily what R-value your walls actually have due to air leaks, etc.

But, at $15k, it's a tough bullet to swallow to go with the foam. I was recently checking out foam prices. And, I started looking for a do-it-yourself option. Holy shit, that stuff is expensive. (And the do-it-yourself stuff is just a gimmicky thing.)

I'm still going to try to figure out a do-it-yourself method. i.e. find some place to rent the equipment, even if it's $1000 for the weekend. Plus, another $1000 or so for the chemicals. That doesn't help you though, since someone's doing everything for you. If the insulation is installed during the next few months, can you write off the expense on the taxes (30% or whatever it is?) Otherwise, I doubt that the investment would ever pay for itself. Unless you're paying cash up front for it, that $15,000 is going to appreciate, thanks to interest rates. With a 30 year mortgage and a 4% interest rate, that $15,000 actually costs you more than $25,000

So, unless you can average saving $71 per month (that's what it adds to the mortgage) for all 12 months of the year, it's probably not worth it. Of course, fuel and electricity prices will rise in the future. Planning on being there for 30 years?

Other questions though: does it better soundproof the home? Does it better protect spaces from mold (I'm under the impression that the closed cell foam does)? etc.

Since these are non-standard options, I would be paying up front.

Those are interesting other questions, I have not given that much thought. I would think that if drafts were a problem and the foam kills the draft, sound attenuation via that air leak would also diminish.

 

[amdskip]

Personally I'd suck it up and get the spray foam. Mike Holmes loves the stuff and uses it on just about every project he does.

 

[Tiamat]

Yes it does help with soundproofing and it is much better protecting from mold. In addition, no vapor barrier is needed with foam.

Insulation is very important with regards to energy usage and will add more resale value than the OP's home theater but, everyone has their own priorities.

I suspect the home theater, while costing an additional 12% of the value of the home will not add any value to the house. I do not intend to sell the home. I view the home as a shell as an investment, but anything i put inside as a "toy" that does not take on any value.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

I suspect the home theater, while costing an additional 12% of the value of the home will not add any value to the house. I do not intend to sell the home. I view the home as a shell as an investment, but anything i put inside as a "toy" that does not take on any value.

Sounds like you should go with the better insulation then.

 

[Dirigible]

Personally I'd suck it up and get the spray foam. Mike Holmes loves the stuff and uses it on just about every project he does.

But he is in a horrible cold place.

My house has no insulation, the way god intended houses to be. And that is the way it will stay.

 

[MikeyIs4Dcats]

You might see if it would be allowed for you to retain your own contractor directly to insulate. My save you a couple grand.

 

[DrPizza]

You might see if it would be allowed for you to retain your own contractor directly to insulate. My save you a couple grand.

That's true. Bro-in-law was telling me that there are only a couple guys who do it in the area, and one of the guys typically comes in at half the price of one of the other guys.

 

[iGas]

You will never recoup the cost of spray foam, unless you have money to burn or government agency.

I would go with traditional pink insulation, or mineral wool/roxul if sound also is a concern.

Cover the ceiling with standard 6 mil vapor barrier poly or 8 mil ++ fiberglass or roxul batts, and that will give it higher R value than spray foam and just about as air tight. Run a bead of adhesive at the seams and spray foam (cans) around the doors/windows/joins/vents/fixture & receptacle boxes if you want to make sure.

A house sealed up as such will need control ventilation because trap moisture will increase humidity and promotes mold. Common construction practice is to place 1 or more bathroom fan/s on timer/s or humidistat to evacuates moist air for the house with intake or makeup air vents in the basement or bed room/s. Another popular method for ventilation is to install an HRV (Heat Recovery Ventialtion, recover 50~99% of heat pending design) and enjoy the fresh air with little energy waste.

 

[vi edit]

A house sealed up as such will need control ventilation because trap moisture will increase humidity and promotes mold. Common construction practice is to place 1 or more bathroom fan/s on timer/s or humidistat to evacuates moist air for the house with intake or makeup air vents in the basement or bed room/s. Another popular method for ventilation is to install an HRV (Heat Recovery Ventialtion, recover 50~99% of heat pending design) and enjoy the fresh air with little energy waste.

That ERV/HRV thing is really confusing and still hasn't caught much traction with tradional builders/contractors. My contractor builds an incredibly airtight home and I was concerned about moisture buildup in the winter. I asked about an HRV to both him and the HVAC guys and they both wrinkled their noses. Even the HVAC guy who would have made money off of it.

 

[iGas]

That ERV/HRV thing is really confusing and still hasn't caught much traction with tradional builders/contractors. My contractor builds an incredibly airtight home and I was concerned about moisture buildup in the winter. I asked about an HRV to both him and the HVAC guys and they both wrinkled their noses. Even the HVAC guy who would have made money off of it.

Maybe it is not common where you are but it is quite common here, and are utilize in every industrial & commercial infrastructures that I worked on. Some of the better homes and upscale homes also have it.

The different in air quality with poor ventilation and good ventilation is night and day. Normal ventilation is 1~2 complete house volume of air exchange in 24 hours, while it is common to have 5~6 complete house volume of air exchange in 24 hours with HRV (fresher air home, an the filter also greatly reduce dust & pollen).

 

[alkemyst]

House comes with "Dow® Weathermate* Plus energy efficient housewrap"

It's only as good as the install. Once it's up you don't want other contractors coming in behind it and making access.

That spray in cost would take a long time to pay itself off, however; usually with the uber upgrades esp when looking at HVAC and windows, it's not the energy savings but the increased quality of living.

Better insulation should = more quiet.

The other options esp combined with a house wrap all look more than adequate.

At the end of the day you have to determine where up to $15k of your home purchase money is best spent. That could be a luxury bathroom, upgraded kitchen, a pool, etc.

 

[bruceb]

Option #2 seems to be your best bet, as far as best insulation / cost.

 

[BarkingGhostar]

ATOT, this is my first home and I wanted to get the insulation right the first time so I don't have any regrets. This house will be in Virginia, around Quantico area. $15k option is hard to swallow. I'm hoping I don't need to spray foam the entire exterior... but I'm willing to hear opinions.

Thanks!


House is 3800 sqft.

I have the following options:

1. Spray foam for exterior walls & ceiling (R38) – $14,910

2. R15 Batt for exterior walls from attic to band board & spray foam in attic in addition to standard attic insulation (R41) – $6,200

3. Spray foam for attic only – $5,460

4. R15 Batt walls only with R38 attic (no spray foam) – $1,500

Without knowing how thick the walls being sprayed are its impossible to know how well it will perform compared to other options.

 

[Vette73]

I just built a 1000sq/ft addition on my house in Springfield VA and had the same questions as you. What I ended up doing is...


For the wall I used 2x6 studs so i can use the R19. The wood cost is very small in the grand picture. BUT any place there is wood = little to no insulation. So instead of using osb for the outside paneling I used 1" foam boards. That adds another R6 and also covers any wood studs and a bonus reduces outside noise.

So R19 batts with 1" R6+ = R25+ lower noise.


The attic I installed batts with fiber glass for R30 and will blow in next Friday another R10 worth of the cellulose insulation. Fiberglass does fine in cold weather but high heat seems to diminish its effectiveness. But the cellulose is supposed to work better in warm weather. Also the blow in will fill in voids around the wood truces.

So R30 batts with blown in cellulose = R40ish plus fills in voids that batts will miss.



Also some things to think about.

For plumbing use PEX. Installs easy and is cheaper. You can buy it at Lowes at Woodbridge right now. I did all my own plumbing for my hosue. Kitchen, outside faucets, bathroom, etc... So if you need any tips just ask.

Lowes has their rebates on insulation right now. So see when they expire and buy right before they do.

Lowes also have deals on their 30year shingles. I uses the estate grey ones from the woodbridge lowes for my house when they were also onsale/rebate.

Use 12ga wire. The extra power may come in handy and easyier to run now then later. Same with Cat6 (monoprice) and extra RG6 cable wire.

 

[Vette73]

Lived in Fredricksburg for 3 years and cross the river for another two.

The R38 would be an overkill.

We would get 2-3 times at the most per winter when it became real cold - near zero.

I think that it will take 10-15 years to save the extra $30-50 per cold snap.

Plant a few shade tress and evergreens to help with the cooling issues for the summer.
Plus in 5-10 years, the shade trees can support a tree house and tire swing. Perfect size for a son!

R38 is required per code in VA. Just built so had to go over all code like that recently.

 

[Tiamat]

Thanks for the advice as of yet guys! My builder will not let any subs in due to liabilities. They dont want subs messing up their work as they (the primary builder) will have to pay for any damages within the first year.

I kinda wish i knew more about this stuff earlier in the process so i could have time to do more research :/

 

[bignateyk]

I suspect the home theater, while costing an additional 12% of the value of the home will not add any value to the house. I do not intend to sell the home. I view the home as a shell as an investment, but anything i put inside as a "toy" that does not take on any value.

Wait... you're putting in a home theater system that costs 12% of the value of your home? How is that even possible? A 3800sq foot house in the DC area must cost at least half a million, which would put the price of your home theater at over $50K?

Spend the money on the insulation...

 

[drnickriviera]

You should seriously consider dense pack cellulose.

How are they getting R-15 fiberglass for the walls? Are they thicker than a normal 2x4 wall?

 

[dmcowen674]

ATOT, this is my first home and I wanted to get the insulation right the first time so I don't have any regrets.

Do all the insulation as possible.

It will pay for itself over the life of the house in lower bills and comfort.

Skimp and you will regret.

 

[Vette73]

You should seriously consider dense pack cellulose.

How are they getting R-15 fiberglass for the walls? Are they thicker than a normal 2x4 wall?

Some have batts that are now "rated" at R15 for 2x4 walls. Not sure I buy that but that is what THEIR test show.

 

[Tiamat]

Wait... you're putting in a home theater system that costs 12% of the value of your home? How is that even possible? A 3800sq foot house in the DC area must cost at least half a million, which would put the price of your home theater at over $50K?

Spend the money on the insulation...

I didn't want to get into numbers, but your guess was in the ballpark. It isn't hard to exceed a certain cost for home theaters which are designed to meet certain specifications for both video and audio.

Everything has costs associated, and as I am finding out, this applies to home insulation too

I have a lot of thinking to do by monday :S Now I'm on the fence pertaining option 1 and option 2. Problem is, the 7k$ difference or so can easily fund furnishing a couple rooms of the home... so I'm running cost balance/analysis constantly...