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Getting a new SID

B

b4u

Golden Member
Hi,

I'll be in the process of installing 4 computers in the near future. Specs are the same, and so I was obviouslly thinking about installing on of them, then cloning the image to the others.

For cloning, I'll be using Ghost 3 (I believe that's the correct version).

That leads me to some questions:

1# If there are different hardware on the machines, will it be a problematic image mirroring and install?

2# I've heard about this SID (Computer Security Identifier) problem. Will it still exist when using Ghost? (that software should automatically solve the problem, as it is it's task to do problem-free image mirroring)

3# How can I see the current SID?

4# What problems can be found with two computers using the same SID?


Thanks
 
That's correct. Sysprep gets past everything but the HAL. If you have different disk controllers among machines you should simply put the "Standard PCI IDE Controller" onto the master machine. Also read up on how to integrate lots of different drivers into a single image.

Aside from that, no issues.
 
But shouldn't it be trouble-free when using a payed professional program like Norton Ghost?
 
Originally posted by: b4u
But shouldn't it be trouble-free when using a payed professional program like Norton Ghost?
Click to expand...

I don't know what a payed program is, but if you want to ghost among different hardware platforms and you want the drivers to auto-install, you want to use something like Sysprep plus Ghost.
 
...except that won't help with drivers. Sysprep handles all that very neatly. Just use Sysprep + Ghost and it will handle everything.
 
Originally posted by: KB
The only issue is that I believe if the PCs have different HALs, then you can't use this method.
Click to expand...

What you mean by that? Different HALs?
 
Originally posted by: b4u
What you mean by that? Different HALs?
Click to expand...

Hardware Abstraction Layer.

E.g. if you (during setup) turn off ACPI support, you'll get the old-school HAL which do not support ACPI. There's also a seperate HAL that supports dual-processors (although that one is probably merged into the standard HAL by now?). The latter also supports APIC (roughly twice the IRQs compared to the old interrupt controller) which for the past couple of years have finally become standard on uni-proc motherboards too.

OEMs can provide their own HALs if need be. (Used to be somewhat common in the NT 3.1 - 3.5 era I think -- I have not seen any custom HALs for years now)
 
Originally posted by: b4u
Originally posted by: KB
The only issue is that I believe if the PCs have different HALs, then you can't use this method.
Click to expand...

What you mean by that? Different HALs?
Click to expand...

Different hardware abstraction layers. You can Google for a full definition, but basically, if the text in Device Manager under "Computer" is different between the models, you won't be able to get the image working on the different HAL. There's more to it than that, but that's the gist of it.
 
Shouldn't Windows XP detect different hardware and work with it? I'm planning to do some cloning in 4 equal PCs, but a big company will have many different PCs around ... how do they clone successfully?
 
Let me post another question ...

Sysprep will clean my hardware info and SID, then it will just shut-down my PC at some point, right?

So if I clone at that point, I'll have a image with all the software, but the OS has no SID nor hardware info ... and when I boot a PC with that image, it will create all (SID and hardware info) from scratch, right? And will detect new hardware, asking for drivers if needed right?
 
Originally posted by: b4u
Shouldn't Windows XP detect different hardware and work with it? I'm planning to do some cloning in 4 equal PCs, but a big company will have many different PCs around ... how do they clone successfully?
Click to expand...

Q1: Yes.
Q2: They use Ghost and Sysprep (speaking of cloning) or unattend.txt/RIS/RIPrep for unattended rollouts.
 
Originally posted by: b4u
Let me post another question ...

Sysprep will clean my hardware info and SID, then it will just shut-down my PC at some point, right?

So if I clone at that point, I'll have a image with all the software, but the OS has no SID nor hardware info ... and when I boot a PC with that image, it will create all (SID and hardware info) from scratch, right? And will detect new hardware, asking for drivers if needed right?
Click to expand...

Q1: Yes. You still need to use the sysprep .inf file to put the right drivers for all of your hardware in the right place. (Assuming, of course, that you care.)

Q2: Yes. Far more elegant to use Sysprep to put the drivers into the image already, though, so you aren't prompted for anything, no? 🙂
 
Thanks for the answers 🙂

Now about sysprep, I know I can download "Windows XP Service Pack 1 Deployment Tools" from microsoft's download site, and so I assume it will work fine in SP2, am I correct?

I have a slipstreamed version of Windows XP SP2, will it be better to search for the tool on the CD? I mean, if I slipstreamed SP2, and the tool was outdated, it surelly was broght to-date with SP2 ...
 
Originally posted by: b4u
Thanks for the answers 🙂

Now about sysprep, I know I can download "Windows XP Service Pack 1 Deployment Tools" from microsoft's download site, and so I assume it will work fine in SP2, am I correct?

I have a slipstreamed version of Windows XP SP2, will it be better to search for the tool on the CD? I mean, if I slipstreamed SP2, and the tool was outdated, it surelly was broght to-date with SP2 ...
Click to expand...

Obviously, you want deployment tools for SP2, not SP1. It's on MS's site.
 
Originally posted by: KB
Before you clone the image run sysprep (http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;302577&sd=tech), which is a Microsoft tool that strips the SID and hardware information. Then when the new PC boots up with the image it will redetect the hardware. The only issue is that I believe if the PCs have different HALs, then you can't use this method.
Click to expand...

Hi, just reviving this thread for a simple question ... if this method doesn't properly work on different computers (with different HALs), then how come it seems to work on my company's computers? I mean they have thousands of computers, and they have a couple of images around, but mainly for different software, ie, one winXP+office2003, one winXP and no Office, ...

So in a network of thousands of computers, I believe it's hard to find computers with the same HAL, or I find it difficult for them to make such distinctions on installing an image ...

What's their trick?
 
If your just gonna use Ghost, it should come with a tool called Ghstwalk. When you run it, it will show you the current SID and will go thru the hard drive and registry and change the SID. It has something like a 1 in 50 billion chance of re-using the same SID. Not sure what the program uses for a random number seed, but it's very impressive.

The only issue you'd really have with having the same SID is if you are on a windows domain. The Active Directory stores info that is based on SID and it can have some minor problems with DNS, DHCP, LDAP listings in the entries.

I'm not sure what kind of hardware you have in the computers but depending on the hard drive controller certain brands have issues with IRQs being taken up where they shouldn't be used. So when you Ghost many modern PCs, you have to use the switch ghost -fne. The same switch needs to be used when you run Ghstwalk, i.e. ghstwalk -fne otherwise it will just freeze and you'll have to reboot and start the ghstwalk program again.

If the image you are using is from a computer that is already on a windows domain, DO NOT RUN GHSTWALK, chances are, you will ruin the domain-made registries and windows will never be able to find a domain controller again when you try to login.

Hope this helps.
 
Originally posted by: SlickRoenick
If your just gonna use Ghost, it should come with a tool called Ghstwalk. When you run it, it will show you the current SID and will go thru the hard drive and registry and change the SID. It has something like a 1 in 50 billion chance of re-using the same SID. Not sure what the program uses for a random number seed, but it's very impressive.

The only issue you'd really have with having the same SID is if you are on a windows domain. The Active Directory stores info that is based on SID and it can have some minor problems with DNS, DHCP, LDAP listings in the entries.

I'm not sure what kind of hardware you have in the computers but depending on the hard drive controller certain brands have issues with IRQs being taken up where they shouldn't be used. So when you Ghost many modern PCs, you have to use the switch ghost -fne. The same switch needs to be used when you run Ghstwalk, i.e. ghstwalk -fne otherwise it will just freeze and you'll have to reboot and start the ghstwalk program again.

If the image you are using is from a computer that is already on a windows domain, DO NOT RUN GHSTWALK, chances are, you will ruin the domain-made registries and windows will never be able to find a domain controller again when you try to login.

Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

SIDs and HALs aren't related.
 
Originally posted by: b4u
Originally posted by: KB
Before you clone the image run sysprep (http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;302577&sd=tech), which is a Microsoft tool that strips the SID and hardware information. Then when the new PC boots up with the image it will redetect the hardware. The only issue is that I believe if the PCs have different HALs, then you can't use this method.
Click to expand...

Hi, just reviving this thread for a simple question ... if this method doesn't properly work on different computers (with different HALs), then how come it seems to work on my company's computers? I mean they have thousands of computers, and they have a couple of images around, but mainly for different software, ie, one winXP+office2003, one winXP and no Office, ...

So in a network of thousands of computers, I believe it's hard to find computers with the same HAL, or I find it difficult for them to make such distinctions on installing an image ...

What's their trick?
Click to expand...

Well, to answer that I'd need to know how your company deploys images.

If it's Ghost + Sysprep, the machines have the same/compatible HAL.
 
Originally posted by: dclive
Originally posted by: b4u
Originally posted by: KB
Before you clone the image run sysprep (http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;302577&sd=tech), which is a Microsoft tool that strips the SID and hardware information. Then when the new PC boots up with the image it will redetect the hardware. The only issue is that I believe if the PCs have different HALs, then you can't use this method.
Click to expand...

Hi, just reviving this thread for a simple question ... if this method doesn't properly work on different computers (with different HALs), then how come it seems to work on my company's computers? I mean they have thousands of computers, and they have a couple of images around, but mainly for different software, ie, one winXP+office2003, one winXP and no Office, ...

So in a network of thousands of computers, I believe it's hard to find computers with the same HAL, or I find it difficult for them to make such distinctions on installing an image ...

What's their trick?
Click to expand...

Well, to answer that I'd need to know how your company deploys images.

If it's Ghost + Sysprep, the machines have the same/compatible HAL.
Click to expand...

Uhm ... I don't know what they do ... 🙁 I just know they use Ghost, since I saw it running when I was visiting the department that takes care of the network infrastructure ... but they must have some reliable way to do it ... they have lot's of computers throughout the company ... and that's the scenario I want to learn ... clone images for different computers.
 
Originally posted by: b4u
Originally posted by: dclive
Originally posted by: b4u
Originally posted by: KB
Before you clone the image run sysprep (http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;302577&sd=tech), which is a Microsoft tool that strips the SID and hardware information. Then when the new PC boots up with the image it will redetect the hardware. The only issue is that I believe if the PCs have different HALs, then you can't use this method.
Click to expand...

Hi, just reviving this thread for a simple question ... if this method doesn't properly work on different computers (with different HALs), then how come it seems to work on my company's computers? I mean they have thousands of computers, and they have a couple of images around, but mainly for different software, ie, one winXP+office2003, one winXP and no Office, ...

So in a network of thousands of computers, I believe it's hard to find computers with the same HAL, or I find it difficult for them to make such distinctions on installing an image ...

What's their trick?
Click to expand...

Well, to answer that I'd need to know how your company deploys images.

If it's Ghost + Sysprep, the machines have the same/compatible HAL.
Click to expand...

Uhm ... I don't know what they do ... 🙁 I just know they use Ghost, since I saw it running when I was visiting the department that takes care of the network infrastructure ... but they must have some reliable way to do it ... they have lot's of computers throughout the company ... and that's the scenario I want to learn ... clone images for different computers.
Click to expand...

You might ask them. They probably use Sysprep + Ghost, or else they just have a new Ghost image for every machine type (using Sysprep would make that soooo much easier.... and avoid that need). HAL issues are still with us.
 
IMHO....ghost is not nearly as flexible for large rollouts. Landesk or Altiris handle it much better. As far as different images...there are 3 methods. One is sysprep and image for each HAL (end up with between 3-10 "master" images), single image for each machine type (works for companies like mine, corp desktops are one model, with same H/W everywhere) or unattended PXE install (network install). Plug it in, boot it up, on the PXE menu select the option based on computer (or if they spend a little time, it can read info from and autoselect the boot image/image to use).

Before the ghost lovers flog me, I'll admit, I've only used ghost a few times, but when I did, I was multicasting to 4 machines, and it took forever. Same config on Altiris mutlicast was done on 150 in one hour.
 
Originally posted by: nweaver
IMHO....ghost is not nearly as flexible for large rollouts. Landesk or Altiris handle it much better. As far as different images...there are 3 methods. One is sysprep and image for each HAL (end up with between 3-10 "master" images), single image for each machine type (works for companies like mine, corp desktops are one model, with same H/W everywhere) or unattended PXE install (network install). Plug it in, boot it up, on the PXE menu select the option based on computer (or if they spend a little time, it can read info from and autoselect the boot image/image to use).

Before the ghost lovers flog me, I'll admit, I've only used ghost a few times, but when I did, I was multicasting to 4 machines, and it took forever. Same config on Altiris mutlicast was done on 150 in one hour.
Click to expand...

Three and TEN master images? For today's PCs, typically they're all going to be one of perhaps two or three HAL types; the rest are either compatible, or no longer used. For example, Compaq's and SGI's aren't used anymore. Two is the norm for HALs most orgs will see, perhaps three with multiple core PCs becoming the norm (soon).

RE: PXE: Server 2003 autoselects the correct boot image (HAL) with RIPREP. For RIS, of course, that isn't necessary as it is essentially a CD-based install.

Ghost Multicast isn't interently any faster or slower than Altiris - whether you have one client or 50, the speed is up to your network, not Ghost.

I wouldn't use Ghost for large rollouts - the upkeep on a CD-based medium is tremendous. To me it's far better to use RIS (not RIPREP) and then do all other updates via Group Policy or SMS. Why would you want to bundle something into the image that easily could change? It's best to have the image process -never- change, and then deploy updates/hotfixes/Office/etc. later, since those can then be easily changed if required, but the core image remains untouched, pristine, and safe.
 
Originally posted by: b4u
Shouldn't Windows XP detect different hardware and work with it? I'm planning to do some cloning in 4 equal PCs, but a big company will have many different PCs around ... how do they clone successfully?
Click to expand...

We use an unattended installation with built-in drivers, and then install all software and settings through Group Policy. Never had a glitch. Theoretically, should work without a glitch on any computer that will install Windows.

This page has not only some good info on the nightmare people call Disk Imaging, but also has an open source alternative to RIS. Personally though, I prefer creating a CD with the information from here.
 
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