thanks for everyones input, i'm still kind of tied up, i *do* know i like games like tactics ogre, as i have put a few hundred hours into final fantasy tactics in the past (obsessively trying to get *everything*..man...exhausting but rewarding), then again i've played the final fantasies and other straight rpg games and i like those alot too.
how is the story in golden sun? i dont mind kiddish stuff (most of the games i used to play were that way and they are classics imo

), but there has to be a good story i can dig my teeth into, and characters that are likeable and not annoying. for example ff4, ff6, chrono trigger, xenogears, and some other games, had great stories and great characters, but ff8 and ff9 had AWFUL characters who i at best - did not like much or at worst - downright hated, and the stories were just bland and generic.
i am asking for this for christmas, so its basically like, if one is definitely better than the other, i'll ask for that specifically, if its undecided, i will just ask for either and let myself be surprised.