Germany versus Republicans

[techs]

While I am not a big fan of the German people since that whole WW2 thing, I still wonder how the German economic model compares to the Republican model.

Germany has strong financial controls on its banks and did not have a housing bubble like we did, yet their banks continued to prosper.

Germany has universal health care that is remarkably efficient, and at least as high a quality as the US. Yet it doesn't bust their budget.

German unions have far more power than in the US. Yet the German unions and the corporations work together to keep jobs in Germany and keep costs down.

German CEO's make far less money than US CEO's yet they still run efficient and productive companies. And still create jobs.

Germany provides a social safety net that puts the US to shame. And yet it has a balanced budget.

Germany has the strictest environmental laws of almost any country, yet they also manage to keep their factories going.

Germany pours money into its educational system and turns out world class engineers by bushel. While having the strongest educational unions in Europe.

So, how do you explain how Germany can pretty much do the opposite of what Republicans say is necessary for the US and still succeed?

 

[bfdd]

Because even though nationalism is a dirty word in Germany, they are still very proud of their nation and their nationalism.

PS they've been planning economic and political takeover of Europe since the formation of the EU. It's neat to see the other power countries struggling to come to terms with this. Just feel bad for the peasants over in England. They wanted nothing to do with the EU, but their leaders joined up anyways.

 

[NikolaeVarius]

You're not a big fan of people who have nothing to do with what happened 70 years ago?

 

[techs]

You're not a big fan of people who have nothing to do with what happened 70 years ago?

Well, its hard to get over them killing your grandparent.

 

[marincounty]

They don't spend a large percentage of their gdp on the military? They haven't cut taxes to the point the govt can't pay it's bills?

 

[techs]

They don't spend a large percentage of their gdp on the military? They haven't cut taxes to the point the govt can't pay it's bills?

Oh, good point. Germany has higher taxes.

 

[the DRIZZLE]

They have 30% lower gdp per capita. They are also on the other side of the imbalances that caused the Euro debt crisis. They made a lot of money selling the their European neighbors on credit. The only problem is their neighbors can't pay them back.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

[zanejohnson]

Oh, good point. Germany has higher taxes.

rofl nice

 

[_Rick_]

Oh, good point. Germany has higher taxes.

And specifically: Germany has more complex taxes.

The problem with Germany is still the same as for the other developed countries.
There are no resources left, and any country with resources can buy their know-how and production capacity - only once all has been bought, there will be nothing left to sell.

Anyway, Germany is still one of the most liberal places in the EU. Most other countries, possibly UK excluded, are way more socialist. They're still mostly faring well. Clearly the Republican system is not the only one that works, but it would hurt them so badly to admit that...

The advantage of social policies, is that the average person is better cared for, which leads to higher productivity. Something that Republicans probably believe market magic will sort out eventually. Of course, as long as your employees are easily replaced commodities, then no employer will ever worry about them.

 

[techs]

They have 30% lower gdp per capita.

Be honest. You just made that up right?
U.S. GDP per wiki: $48,386
German GDP per wiki: $43,741

Especially good when you consider Germany absorbed East Germany less than 20 years ago and East Germany was a basket case.

 

[Anarchist420]

One thing to consider is not only the fact that Germany's taxes higher, but that the poor pay them. In addition, Germany's population is also largely homogenous and the average IQ of all Germans is higher than that of all Americans... which leads me to believe that if Germans were free, it wouldn't change which ones could live comfortably.

That said, if the American citizenry of today became free tommorrow, then wealth inequalities among them would go down a little bit. However, it would be far from enough for most liberals to be happy.

 

[MovingTarget]

We have a lot to learn from modern-day Germany. Not everything they do is applicable to us due to demographic and cultural differences though. But no, we ignore any lessons we might learn because of "omgsocialism!" or misguided "we're the best at everything EVAR!" type nationalism.

 

[the DRIZZLE]

Be honest. You just made that up right?
U.S. GDP per wiki: $48,386
German GDP per wiki: $43,741

Especially good when you consider Germany absorbed East Germany less than 20 years ago and East Germany was a basket case.

It was off the top of my head, I posted from my phone. But you are going to have to link to a source, because I'm getting 22% based on the IMF numbers.

 

[zanejohnson]

It was off the top of my head, I posted from my phone. But you are going to have to link to a source, because I'm getting 22% based on the IMF numbers.

rofl off the top of your head

 

[the DRIZZLE]

We have a lot to learn from modern-day Germany. Not everything they do is applicable to us due to demographic and cultural differences though. But no, we ignore any lessons we might learn because of "omgsocialism!" or misguided "we're the best at everything EVAR!" type nationalism.

I don't disagree. There a number of good things about the German model. My issue is when people praise it as the end-all-be-all when it performs far worse at the first measure of economic performance, GDP per capita. My other issue is that it's sort of cherry picking since there are many other democratic socialist countries in Europe and it's not really fair to use only the most successful one as an example and pretend the others don't exist.

It would be like citing the GDP per capita of NY as an example of capitalism and ignoring the other US states.

 

[Lemon law]

They don't spend a large percentage of their gdp on the military? They haven't cut taxes to the point the govt can't pay it's bills?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ding ding ding, I think we have another thread winner. As ole Marin has put the finger on the problem.

Maybe we in the USA could affors it in the late 1940's and early 1950's as we told everyone in the so called "free world" , that you don't need to spend a dime on your military because the USA will spend some obscene and unsustainable fraction of the USA's gross domestic product to protect Germany and give them a free ride.

What a deal, what a deal for Japan and Germany, as they discovered they could undercut us in the world economy, because we paid for their protection while they did not have to pay for an expensive military that ruins the US economic competitiveness.

And when the USA wanted USA help in Afghanistan and Iraq, Germany became the anti- Henny Penny, as they said fuck the USA.

And now we wonder why the USA is not competitive in the world economy.

 

[Phokus]

Germany's unions get half 50% representation on the board of directors at medium and large firms (33% at small firms). Not only do they have much higher income taxes, they have VAT taxes on top of that, so they get taxed out the wazoo. They also impose capital controls on their banking system.

Germany is certainly anti-rightwing in terms of how they run their country and it's a very efficient system. They do not believe in shareholder capitalism, but embrace stakeholder capitalism. For stakeholder capitalism to work though, you need the force of government to force companies to comply with this model.

 

[Anarchist420]

What a deal, what a deal for Japan and Germany

Actually, Japan wants the U.S. gov to leave so it's not a deal for Japan; rather, it's like WWII never ended.

 

[Genx87]

One thing I do admire about Germany is their educational system. They dont waste resources educating people who dont want to be educated. Those people end up in vocational schools learning valuable trades. In the United States we force them to stay in school which costs money and disrupts instruction for the people who want to learn.

 

[Franz316]

They also have a forward looking energy policy, their solar systems have produced 14.7 terawatt hours in the last 6 months which covers 10-50% of peak demand every day. Granted it's heavily subsidized but it will have strong paybacks as energy costs continue to rise.

 

[techs]

One thing I do admire about Germany is their educational system. They dont waste resources educating people who dont want to be educated. Those people end up in vocational schools learning valuable trades. In the United States we force them to stay in school which costs money and disrupts instruction for the people who want to learn.

I have been saying for years that if you don't go to college after grade 12 you don't graduate unless you can prove you have a trade or skill like car repair, barber, musician, etc. Otherwise you go to a two year trade school.
This way kids who are talented, or who have taught themselves or learned a trade from their parents, etc can still go out into the world at age 18 and those who can't get two years of trade school.
That way almost everyone has at least some skill and can be employed.

 

[techs]

It was off the top of my head, I posted from my phone. But you are going to have to link to a source, because I'm getting 22% based on the IMF numbers.

It depends on how you look at it. The PPP which is supposed to take into account differences in purchasing power makes the difference in GDP bigger, but it doesn't take into account things like government provided health care.
So the actual number for Germany is about 20 percent less if you use the number that doesn't include the differences in social welfare between the countries. Its pretty close though, when you use actual dollars and deustchmarks.

In other words, you pay vat, etc in Germany so that makes your purchases cost more, but you recieve health care, etc from the greater prices you pay.

 

[Wreckem]

It was off the top of my head, I posted from my phone. But you are going to have to link to a source, because I'm getting 22% based on the IMF numbers.

Its around 20-22% different. According to legit(non wiki) sources.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

I guess ze German austerity measures which they enacted do work after all, right OP?

In regards to German's thriving manufacturing sector.

The Germans have for while positioned themselves to benefit from the debt crisis in Europe and their manufacturing sector is reaping the rewards from the devaluation of the euro by and at the expense of the PIIGS. So their economic gains have been at the expense of the PIIGS.

In addition their debt-to-GDP ratio is far lower then the US, sitting at 81.20% vs our current new high of 101% because they took measures to control their debt spending.

 

[cybrsage]

While I am not a big fan of the German people since that whole WW2 thing, I still wonder how the German economic model compares to the Republican model.

Germany IS a republic. They follow the republican model.

conventional long form: Federal Republic of Germany
Government type: federal republic

https://cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/gm.html