Germans fight back against anti-smoking campaigns

[Schadenfroh]

http://www.npr.org/2011/07/05/137617824/german-smokers-want-health-mafia-to-butt-out

Looks like Germany is a holdout in the anti-smoking sentiment that is sweeping the developed world.

in Germany, anti-smoking activists are facing a tough battle even getting basic restrictions enforced
...
He says when it comes to lighting up, "the health mafia should mind their own business."
...
"We don't need politicians taking over, and we don't need health fanatics taking over, because I don't do yoga, and I won't," he adds.
...
today many restaurants and bars, regardless of size, openly ignore the smoking restrictions.
...
In a recent study, the German Cancer Research Center found patrons smoking freely in four out of five bars in Germany.

It is alarming that laws are being ignored, as it is a dangerous slope. But, I do not understand the hate towards smoking in bars. It is not like excessive drinking will harm your body or anything like smoking...

"Germany needs a clear, uniform law to protect nonsmokers, one that applies to all bars and pubs, to prevent waiting staff and nonsmoking patrons from being subjected to secondhand smoke," Potschke-Langer says.

I think working as a bartender incurs certain occupational hazards, one of which would be exposure to 2nd hand smoke. If the employee smokes or is told upfront when they are hired that they will be exposed to tobacco, I do not see the problem anymore so than a coal miner being exposed to coal dust. Maybe they could issue masks to the bartenders / waitresses that find it uncomfortable?

This is odd, apparently Germans allow others to ignore the law because they do not want to be seen as intolerant? Tolerance to smokers is something that we lack here in the states, but I am willing to be intolerant to those breaking the law...

Dieter Reischinger, with the anti-smoking group Fresh Air for Berlin, says too many Berliners don't want to be seen as intolerant, so they tolerate people blowing smoke in their faces and do nothing about it.

Non-smokers are upset about not being able to set outside due to smokers:

"It's almost impossible now to sit in an outside cafe because all the smokers are there," Reischinger says.

Seems that taking your kid to the playground and having a few puffs outside is raising eyebrows as well:

The city's post-reunification ethos of tolerance at all costs even extends to children's playgrounds, where some parents puff away while their kids play in the sandbox.

One thing that I find shocking is that children are eating cigarette butts and it is one of the leading causes of poisoning in Berlin, do people not watch their kids? Back home, there were issues with children eating wild mushrooms from playgrounds of daycare centers. D:

Dr. Johannes Spatz, director of Fresh Air for Berlin, calls that absurd, considering that swallowing cigarette butts is one of the top causes of poisoning in children in Berlin.

"It's poisoning them," Spatz says. "Sometimes it's very severe, the poisoning, and therefore you have to forbid it. But the politicians are hesitating."

But, at the end of the day, if you like to smoke in public, Berlin looks to be the place to be:

While the politicians stall, the hard-core smokers in Berlin — and there are many — are rejoicing that the city remains so smoker-friendly

Here in America, I have no problem with smokers as long as they have their own isolated areas in restaurants or hotels or if they smoke outside. It is their body, if they want to mess it up, fine, as long as you do it in the approved areas. I am against total public smoking bans and the like. I think a bigger problem here is that people are eating themselves to death.

But, it does sicken me when I see mothers at the grocery store buying food for themselves and their kids with foodstamps and then buying smokes with cash. Cannot wait for a cashless society to help crackdown on people living off the taxpayer, yet having enough money to buy smokes and booze.

For the record, I do not smoke.

 

[piasabird]

There are no isolated areas for smoking in most places. Last I checked smoke tends to blow around. Unless there is an airlock and a glass enclosed yellow encrusted smoking room, I dont believe it.

 

[tommo123]

if they were serious about banning smoking they'd just fine the restaurants/whatever that turn a blind eye. e.g each infraction and it's 5% of the last 12 months income as a fine.

 

[Lithium381]

don't they have smoke / non smoke sections?

But, it does sicken me when I see mothers at the grocery store buying food for themselves and their kids with food-stamps and then buying smokes with cash. Cannot wait for a cashless society to help crackdown on people living off the taxpayer, yet having enough money to buy smokes and booze.

i hear that.... the foodstamp / ebt system is very abused

 

[RisenZealot]

There was a comedian who had a rant about people who didn't want smoking in the bars. His whole premise was the idea that if you're in a bar you can't really claim to be 100% worried about your health. The story goes something similar to this..

A man is sitting at the bar throwing back shots and talking to this hot girl. He seems to be getting upset so he looks to the bartender and he says "Sir, I'm trying to get shit faced drunk and talk this girl I've never met before into letting me drive her home (even though he is drunk) and have unprotected sex with her but this fucker over here is screwing up my vibe with all this second hand smoke I can't help but worry about my lungs"

Now that's not as funny when read but the point still remains.

 

[Murloc]

germany is full of turks.
Turks are the hardcore smokers of Europe.
=> germans are resistant to anti-smoke laws

 

[Throckmorton]

OSHA regulations and the equivalent in other countries need to apply to bars.

 

[ichy]

I'm not a smoker and I think cigarettes are nasty, but even I've come to believe that our anti-smoking jihad has gone too far in the US. For god's sake, let people enjoy their vices. Glad to see that Germany hasn't gone as overboard as we have.

 

[zsdersw]

OSHA regulations and the equivalent in other countries need to apply to bars.

No they don't. Whether you're a patron or an employee at a bar or restaurant.. you chose to be there. You weren't forced to do anything. Go find a place to eat/drink/work that is non-smoking.

And I'm a non-smoker.

 

[alphatarget1]

Have some bars that allow smoking and some bars that prohibit smoking. Problem solved.

Germans smoke a lot though... Every time I got back from the bars my clothes would smell like 2nd hand smoke.

 

[zsdersw]

Have some bars that allow smoking and some bars that prohibit smoking. Problem solved.

Well, that's what would happen if the government would stop trying to regulate it.

 

[TechBoyJK]

smoking is fucking disgusting and will be seen as a terrible man made plague once humans get smart and stop it.

might as well be huffing on car exhaust fumes. looks just as stupid to me.

 

[Doboji]

It's a dangerous road we're on as a society. As we move towards socialization of healthcare, health choices that people make are seen as a societal issue, rather than personal freedom. Today it's smoking, tomorrow it'll be our choice in foods, forced exercise? Posture? Where does it end.

 

[TheSlamma]

It's a dangerous road we're on as a society. As we move towards socialization of healthcare, health choices that people make are seen as a societal issue, rather than personal freedom. Today it's smoking, tomorrow it'll be our choice in foods, forced exercise? Posture? Where does it end.

You eating a pulled pork sandwich doesn't go airborne and end up in everyone's lungs around you. Sorry but it's not the slippery slope you think it is.

 

[Schadenfroh]

smoking is fucking disgusting and will be seen as a terrible man made plague once humans get smart and stop it.

See how easily we return to the path of prohibition...

Alcohol is fucking disgusting and will be seen as a terrible man made plague once humans get smart and stop it.

When are we going to ban tobacco? I do not think we even need an amendment these days.

You eating a pulled pork sandwich doesn't go airborne and end up in everyone's lungs around you.

Yes, but that lack of exercise and unhealthy diet end up costing us (taxpayers) money because of complications later in life when one is on medicare (or now if they are on medicaid). When one starts negatively impacting others due to one's lifestyle, there is a problem.

 

[alphatarget1]

Well, that's what would happen if the government would stop trying to regulate it.

Actually, most bars will probably still allow smoking because the bar owners wouldn't want to lose business.

Many German restaurants I've been to have smokers and non-smokers sections, but you can kinda still smell 2nd hand smoke in the non-smoker section...

 

[God Mode]

Good. Let the owners decide what they want.

 

[actuarial]

Good. Let the owners decide what they want.

They should be able to, right up until the moment that they hire an employee.

At that point, they have to give them a safe working environment.

 

[Schadenfroh]

They should be able to, right up until the moment that they hire an employee.

At that point, they have to give them a safe working environment.

Occupational hazard inherent to the job, the employees know what they are getting into when they signup to work in a bar that allows smoking, just like a coal miner knows what to expect when he is hired to go down into the mines. They have two options if they do not like tobacco, one is to work in another bar that prohibits smoking, the other is to wear some kind of filter / mask.

 

[CPA]

You are not forced to work anywhere and you are not forced to eat or socialize in any particular spot, so bans on restaurant smoking are ridiculous.

<---non-smoker

 

[CPA]

Yes, but that lack of exercise and unhealthy diet end up costing us (taxpayers) money because of complications later in life when one is on medicare (or now if they are on medicaid). When one starts negatively impacting others due to one's lifestyle, there is a problem.

easy solution, get rid of socialized medicine.

 

[Genx87]

You eating a pulled pork sandwich doesn't go airborne and end up in everyone's lungs around you. Sorry but it's not the slippery slope you think it is.

You missed his point. Which was when medicine becomes socialized, that puts the public into your personal decisions that affect your health. Because the public is paying for your healthcare. Eating a pulled pork sandwich will contribute to heart disease. A socialized health care system will need laws to keep its cost down. Meaning the slippery slope could be the govt bans the consumption of a pull pork sandwich.

 

[zsdersw]

Actually, most bars will probably still allow smoking because the bar owners wouldn't want to lose business.

See, that's only because non-smokers who are so whiny about smoking aren't putting their money where their mouths are by refusing to go to places that allow smoking. If they did refuse, businesses would try to cater to them by going non-smoking.

 

[cubby1223]

They should be able to, right up until the moment that they hire an employee.

At that point, they have to give them a safe working environment.

Okay. And while we're at it, we should ban all cell phones and all computers from all workplaces because of the radiation they emit may cause cancer too.

It's an unsafe workplace.


Oh wait, it's NOT an unsafe workplace.

That's the problem with anti-smoking Nazi's (and for the record I don't smoke, never have, never will) - when you bitch and moan and plea for safe work conditions, you are lying to us, you are lying to yourself. Your gripe is not safety, it is that you personally find the environment annoying. For fuck's sake at least extend to those around you the courtesy of being honest. And is precisely why I don't like anti-smoking activists, they rarely are honest in their activism, which extends out to not being a trustworthy person in general. Believe that.

 

[matt0611]

Occupational hazard inherent to the job, the employees know what they are getting into when they signup to work in a bar that allows smoking, just like a coal miner knows what to expect when he is hired to go down into the mines. They have two options if they do not like tobacco, one is to work in another bar that prohibits smoking, the other is to wear some kind of filter / mask.

Exactly, its an occupational hazard that comes with the job.
There are plenty of jobs that are very dangerous, they get a premium wage because of it.

If there were one smoking bar and another non-smoking bar, all things being equal the smoking bar will come with a higher wage because of the hazard compared with the non-smoking one.