German exchange student killed in Montana by home owner.

[spidey07]

I didn't clarify extremely well, the state does have them, but they don't seem as hilariously open ended to gunning down strangers as much as spidey wishes.



None of those are "spray yoru shotgun into your garage with a raging erection." Unlike say, Texas.

That's very weak castle doctrine. Even so, it applies in this case as unlawful entry was made and the thug was attempting to enter the home. Any reasonable person would presume they were attempting to enter the occupied dwelling to cause harm.

Most other states with Castle Doctrine, the unlawful entry presumes the victim to have fear of life or great bodily harm.

 

[Orignal Earl]

But yet you just know your paranoid is well-founded?

That must be what I'm typing, because that's the way you see it

 

[cyclohexane]

Don't conflate the law or issue at hand.

Did the neighbor's kid cross the threshold into your occupied dwelling which includes your garage?

How did he come into your house to retrieve said ball in your yard and at what time was it? How did he gain entry to your house if was retrieving a ball from the yard? Your post makes no sense.

Climbed over the fence to get the ball in my backyard. Thought I wasn't home. Answer the question, would you have shot him? If not, why not?

 

[Svnla]

Before my youngest took off on his American tour, I showed him this board and made sure he seen that things are very different down there. He never thought that so many people were waiting to shoot him at any given chance, for things that just wouldn't occur to him.
I insisted he leave his hoodie home for example
He made it back just fine, had a great time, made lot's of American friends.

Again, answer the question. Did the guy in the story enter the garage WITHOUT permission/approval? Yes or No.

LOL @ your bolded/underlined sentence. Any given chance? Funny how I never got shot. Why is that? LOL. (hint, see my previous post above).

 

[spidey07]

Climbed over the fence to get the ball in my backyard. Thought I wasn't home. Answer the question, would you have shot him? If not, why not?

No, because it would have been illegal. Didn't cross the threshold of the dwelling.

 

[nehalem256]

Climbed over the fence to get the ball in my backyard. Thought I wasn't home. Answer the question, would you have shot him? If not, why not?

Wouldn't have shot him because unlike you I am not afraid of 6 year olds.:sneaky:

 

[Orignal Earl]

Again, answer the question. Did the guy in the story enter the garage WITHOUT permission/approval? Yes or No.

Yes

LOL @ your bolded/underlined sentence. Any given chance? Funny how I never got shot. Why is that? LOL. (hint, see my previous post above).

I swear I had read a few times that wearing a hoodie is a sign of someone trying to hide here.
You must of missed those posts

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Then that's what I don't get?

thug enters garage (occupied dwelling), thug gets dead. What's the story?

Oh, I know....mah baby didn do nuffin.

Stay classy, Grand Dragon. I appreciate that you never disappoint in using Ebonics, lest anyone forget who they're dealing with.

I think talking about this case in binary terms (i.e., did the Dede enter the garage or not) misses the point. There is ample evidence that this was a premeditated killing, and essentially no evidence that Kaarma would have been reasonably justified in believing that he or his girlfriend were in danger. Based on the evidence as it now stands, this is a fairly strong case, though of course it's quite possible a jury will see it the way you do and he will walk.

 

[Svnla]

Yes



I swear I had read a few times that wearing a hoodie is a sign of someone trying to hide here.
You must of missed those posts

Thank you for answer the question.

Since by your own statement, he DID enter the garage WITHOUT permission, therefore, he was behaving ILLEGALLY ==> suffered consequences. I am NOT saying getting shot and killed was ok. What I am saying is if he did NOT enter the garage, he would be still alive now.


I don't know that the heck you are rambling about hoodie. I think you are confused me with other poster(s).

 

[Orignal Earl]

Thank you for answer the question.

Since by your own statement, he DID enter the garage WITHOUT permission, therefore, he was behaving ILLEGALLY ==> suffered consequences. I am NOT saying getting shot and killed was ok. What I am saying is if he did NOT enter the garage, he would be still alive now.


I don't know that the heck you are rambling about hoodie. I think you are confused me with other poster(s).

Ya, I'm not arguing good shot or not
These people set their trap, got a bite, and executed a person
Now I guess your courts will decide if that's cool or not

I have no idea if you are one of the hoodie posters or not
Just saying they are here

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Thank you for answer the question.

Since by your own statement, he DID enter the garage WITHOUT permission, therefore, he was behaving ILLEGALLY ==> suffered consequences. I am NOT saying getting shot and killed was ok. What I am saying is if he did NOT enter the garage, he would be still alive now.


I don't know that the heck you are rambling about hoodie. I think you are confused me with other poster(s).

I would most definitely agree that Dede broke the law by entering the garage. It is unclear whether he did so with any malicious intent, though. I could easily imagine someone innocently entering the garage to secure it or make sure everything was OK. Even if Dede entered with the specific intent of stealing the purse, I would be very troubled by what Kaarma did, since the purse in that situation becomes, in effect, bait, and leaving it in plain view might induce someone who would otherwise never have committed a crime to do so.

 

[werepossum]

I would most definitely agree that Dede broke the law by entering the garage. It is unclear whether he did so with any malicious intent, though. I could easily imagine someone innocently entering the garage to secure it or make sure everything was OK. Even if Dede entered with the specific intent of stealing the purse, I would be very troubled by what Kaarma did, since the purse in that situation becomes, in effect, bait, and leaving it in plain view might induce someone who would otherwise never have committed a crime to do so.

Your imagination is clearly better than mine if you can imagine a stranger innocently entering a garage of someone he didn't even know without any malicious intent, but I agree with your conclusion. I don't generally have a problem with thieves being shot in the commission of their crimes, but this seems too cold-blooded to be allowed to stand. Assuming the BBC is telling it straight, or course.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Your imagination is clearly better than mine if you can imagine a stranger innocently entering a garage of someone he didn't even know without any malicious intent, but I agree with your conclusion. I don't generally have a problem with thieves being shot in the commission of their crimes, but this seems too cold-blooded to be allowed to stand. Assuming the BBC is telling it straight, or course.

I really can imagine that. I am not postulating that it's particularly likely under these facts, but I could easily imagine either of my elderly parents doing this, and particularly if there were something valuable in plain sight, in order to secure it for its owner. They were raised in a small town in the 40s and 50s, however. I would not personally do this, but I was raised in the city, in a more violent era. I have no idea what would be common in Germany, where Dede was raised. My sense is that Ze Germans are generally not in the habit of leaving their garages unsecured.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Your imagination is clearly better than mine if you can imagine a stranger innocently entering a garage of someone he didn't even know without any malicious intent,

If the guy was born and raised in America, then that's understandable
Unless he was a Native American who had never been off the reserve, and ignorant of the world around him
He might be used to be able to walk into anyone's garage and trade a pencil for your shovel

 

[Svnla]

I would most definitely agree that Dede broke the law by entering the garage. It is unclear whether he did so with any malicious intent, though. I could easily imagine someone innocently entering the garage to secure it or make sure everything was OK. Even if Dede entered with the specific intent of stealing the purse, I would be very troubled by what Kaarma did, since the purse in that situation becomes, in effect, bait, and leaving it in plain view might induce someone who would otherwise never have committed a crime to do so.

As I said before, I don't think it was ok to shot and kill him (after all the facts we know NOW about this case) but he did enter the establishment without permission, therefore, he suffered the consequences. Hind sight = 20/20 now . But hard to tell when he did enter that garage whether he was just a curious person or a serial rapist/murderer.

About whether it was a bait or not, he did NOT have to take it but he did. For example, I love sport car but if I see a brand new 2014 Vette with the key inside, unlock at a gas station, I would NOT jump in and take it for a spin without the owner permission for sure. I believe some police departmens did have some kind of bait car programs to catch crooks.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

As I said before, I don't think it was ok to shot and kill him (after all the facts we know NOW about this case) but he did enter the establishment without permission, therefore, he suffered the consequences. Hind sight = 20/20.

About whether it was a bait or not, he did NOT have to take it but he did. For example, I love sport car but if I see a brand new 2014 Vette with the key inside, unlock at a gas station, I would NOT jump in and take it for a spin without the owner permission for sure.

I would not either, but if someone else did, I would consider the owner partially responsible for the theft/joyride. The more apt analogy would be if the owner left the keys in his convertible (in my example, I will make it a 911, because that's more my speed ), parked it, and waited behind a bush with a shotgun to kill anyone who appeared to be walking toward the car with the intention of getting in the driver's seat.

 

[TerryMathews]

That must be what I'm typing, because that's the way you see it

So how am I misrepresenting what you said?

 

[Orignal Earl]

So how am I misrepresenting what you said?

Ya,..I already know where this goes

You LOL CANADA, then you accuse me of spinning, then you spin, then you LOL CANADA again and repeat

There, we are done

 

[CitizenKain]

Since by your own statement, he DID enter the garage WITHOUT permission, therefore, he was behaving ILLEGALLY ==> suffered consequences. I am NOT saying getting shot and killed was ok.

Yes you are.

The punishment for being in someone's garage is not being murdered, no matter how much people like you think it should be.

Any reasonable person would presume they were attempting to enter the occupied dwelling to cause harm.

Again you are confusing reasonable person with coward. Considering the murderer could see that the victim.

 

[TerryMathews]

Ya,..I already know where this goes

You LOL CANADA, then you accuse me of spinning, then you spin, then you LOL CANADA again and repeat

There, we are done

So, by your post can we all assume that my post was in fact an accurate representation of what you said?

 

[Svnla]

Yes you are.

The punishment for being in someone's garage is not being murdered, no matter how much people like you think it should be.

Stop putting your own words in my mouth.

I said he did enter the establishment WITHOUT permission/approval => suffered the consequences (whatever that could be). If he DID NOT do that, he would be still fine today. Funny how you "forgot" the "without permission/approval" in your "being in someone's garage" sentence above.

Very simple to understand.

I would not either, but if someone else did, I would consider the owner partially responsible for the theft/joyride. The more apt analogy would be if the owner left the keys in his convertible (in my example, I will make it a 911, because that's more my speed ), parked it, and waited behind a bush with a shotgun to kill anyone who appeared to be walking toward the car with the intention of getting in the driver's seat.

I think walking toward the car is not true. The guy did enter the garage, he did not just walk toward the garage when he was being shot. Very big difference.

 

[OCGuy]

Yes you are.
The punishment for being in someone's garage is not being murdered, no matter how much people like you think it should be.

Is that based on law or just how you feel the world should work?

If you are in someone's garage and they feel like they need to stop a forcible felony or bodily harm, it is justifiable homicide.

The only reason this is making news is because it is a foreign young person, and there are suggestions of pre-meditation because the owner is an asshat.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Stop putting your own words in my mouth.

I said he did enter the establishment WITHOUT permission/approval => suffered the consequences (whatever that could be). If he DID NOT do that, he would be still fine today.

Very simple to understand.

I think walking toward the car is not true. The guy did enter the garage, he did not just walk toward the garage when he was being shot. Very big difference.

True, but as far as we know he never actually touched the purse (which I would think of as more akin to getting into the driver's seat). Regardless, in your hypothetical, just as in the actual case, I would blame the car owner, at least in part, for leaving his car unsecured with the keys in the ignition, in broad daylight (particularly if, as in this case, he did so intentionally, with the intention of shooting anyone who made any move toward taking the car).

 

[Orignal Earl]

So, by your post can we all assume that my post was in fact an accurate representation of what you said?

There is some kind of glitch that occurs when I try to communicate with you
To me, it's like when I try to type to Incor, except with you it takes 10 more posts
So I just have to concede the argument, and try and be a better poster

 

[werepossum]

Yes you are.

The punishment for being in someone's garage is not being murdered, no matter how much people like you think it should be.

Again you are confusing reasonable person with coward. Considering the murderer could see that the victim.

Pointing out that the deceased brought on the consequences is not saying the consequences are just or reasonable, it's merely pointing out that the consequences were completely avoidable.