German armed forces ban Microsoft software

[gtd2000]

emjem,
What sort of half assed statement it is this?


<< Woooooo, their secrets are soooo important to our success. Just don't see how we're going to live without them >>



You make Americans look extremely foolish by saying things like that - I'm British - and if you must know if it was not for the technology supplied by German Scientists you would never have had the first man on the moon or even a space program to think about taking the Russians on with - yes the rocket technology was all German.

Einstein who helped develop the Nuclear Bomb (which essentially ended WWII) was German (maybe Austrian - which was part of Germany originally - Grosse Deutscheland) also if I remember correctly and many of the scientists involved were also German - he is also considered to be the most important human of the 20th Century.

All &quot;allied&quot; powers spy on each other - if you don't buy that - have a game of poker with your friends - do you think they'll let you know what cards they have in their hands?

Now I've had my rant
The Spanish Artillery used Commodore Amigas for artillery fire purposes in the past too

 

[Mingon]

GTD 2000, the nuclear weapon was first tested and built in the uk, although I must admit some of the recent technologies are based on german idea's eg. EM guns which the usa want to use to launch satelites

 

[rahvin]

<<But if they're so convinced that MS has put &quot;NSA Backdoors&quot; into their software, why not demonstrate such tactics? Do they have any evidence? If they did, it would be a HUGE coup. As of right now, it seems like a silly ploy to slander Microsoft and the US Gov't.>>

If you can't seriously entertain the idea that the NSA does have the power and manipulation to influence microsoft into providing backdoor for them then you are seriously naive. The NSA has a HUGE budget and very influential. You do realize that they record every worldwide communication that crosses through america, austriallia or the UK on landlines, by wireless or satalite? It's called project &quot;Echelon&quot;, and given their ability to record, process and filter based on keyword I wouldn't find it improbable that they have caused microsoft to include NSA backdoors into their software. MS's only way to prove otherwise is to open source their software to foreign governments.

<<GTD 2000, the nuclear weapon was first tested and built in the uk, although I must admit some of the recent technologies are based on german idea's eg. EM guns which the usa want to use to launch satelites>>

What? Check your facts. The first nuclear reactor was in the UK (by about a month), the first weapon based on that theory was developed and tested as part of the Trinity project that resulted in the dropping of the Bomb on Japan. The project was so top secret that the President didn't even know about it till 24 hours before the test drop. Had allied forces not been bombing the heavy water factories in Norway, London would be a smoking Pit from the Nuke that Hitler would have used, he was 6months from a test weapon when he canceled the development of the weapon because of the costs. Those same scientists after the liberation of Germany by the Russians developed the Nuke for Stalin under threat of death. (he shipped all the scientists back to siberia after taking berlin)

 

[Mingon]

sorry Rahvin would have to disagree, I have worked in the building where it was developed so I believe i can comment.

 

[rahvin]

Ok smart guy, show me the evidence of the &quot;test&quot; before the trinity test. Where did they set this nuclear weapon off? eh?

&quot;July 16 - At 5:29:45 a.m. Gadget was detonated in the first atomic explosion in history. The explosive yield was 20-22 Kt (initially estimated at 18.9 Kt), vaporizing the steel tower.&quot;

http://www.enviroweb.org/issues/nuketesting/hew/Usa/Med/Med.html

 

[Mingon]

Ok rahvin no need to be sarcastic, testing of a nuclear weapon does not have to include the demolition of a small french island. dont believe everything you read, I wont go into it much further All i will say is that yes the first detonation of a nuclear weapon was done by the us but the uk designed and tested the first nuclear weapon. If you wish for further information I can provide it, but dont start petty name-calling its not clever.

 

[rahvin]

Ok buddy boy, provide your evidence, here is mine:

http://www.enviroweb.org/issues/nuketesting/hew/Uk/index.html

&quot;Immediately after World War II, in August 1945, the new Labor government in Britain organized a secret Cabinet committee to establish nuclear policy. On 8 January 1947 this committee of six Ministers (headed by P.M. Attlee) decided to proceed with development and acquisition of atomic weapons, a fact that was not disclosed at all until 12 May 1948, when an oblique reference was made to atomic weapon development in parliamentary discussions.&quot;

&quot;The &quot;Oppenheimer&quot; of Britain was physicist William G. Penney. He was part of the &quot;British Mission&quot; sent to Los Alamos during the war to assist in the development of the first atomic bomb. After the war he returned to the UK and was eventually asked to set up Britain's own nuclear weapon program. The picture below shows him as he was at Los Alamos. He did not learn of the british decision to build an atomic bomb unitl May 1947 when he was asked to lead the development effort. The following month he began assembling a team to work on it.&quot;

&quot;00:00 03 October 1952 (GMT)
This was the first British nuclear test. The device tested was a plutonium implosion bomb similar to the Fat Man, but improved by using a levitated pit. The bomb used plutonium produced at Windscale (now Sellafield) with a low Pu-240 content since hurried production led to short irradiation times. In fact Windscale could not quite meet the August 1 deadline for manufacturing the core and the device also used some Canadian-supplied plutonium.&quot;

The British built the first Nuclear reactor (graphite model) and had one of the pre-eminent scientists that developed the theory. (he in fact pattented fission) But that doesn't change the fact that unless you have classified information to present, history says the americans developed it first.

 

[Mingon]

the last paragraph unfortunately is difficult for someone in my position to prove without risking my job. I dont understand quite why you are being so aggressive? unfortunately I can neither prove what I do or have a wish to. If you dont like the fact that the UK has a better defense organisation than the US fine, each to there own. Just dont beleive everything you read.

 

[EmperorNero]

<< I find it funny that the GERMANS are worried about national security in the first place. After all, we're supposed to be allies here... >>



yeah...and the soviet union was our allies during WWII too. like a few people with common sense have claimed, I think germany are not as stupid as arrogant people want them to be. if those people are so ignorant to the spying that goes on, try reading up on echelon (like someone earlier mentioned) and &quot;carnivore.&quot;

 

[Mingon]

Always found the german people I have dealt with to be intelligent and very with-holding, I wish the Uk would follow suit. Our IT system is terrible, people at my work still use p133's. Our technicians know less than the average Anadtech forum member.

 

[TravisBickle]

the germans are learning fractions by the time english speakers have stopped playing with their lickle fingy wingers, ah

 

[rahvin]

<<the last paragraph unfortunately is difficult for someone in my position to prove without risking my job. I dont understand quite why you are being so aggressive? unfortunately I can neither prove what I do or have a wish to. If you dont like the fact that the UK has a better defense organisation than the US fine, each to there own. Just dont beleive everything you read.>>

Ok so you worked in the building that the first nuclear weapon was developed in, so I'm assuming that you were at least 18 when this occured so in fact that would make you 74 years old (older if you are saying that the nuke was before 45). My my you get around, still worried about employment too.

And you claim they were testing nuclear weapons without actually exploding them, back in 1945. Ok how were they testing it? Asking it if it felt like exploding that day? Not like they were computer modeling explosions, hell till Trinity, they weren't sure a plutonium bomb would work. Oh, and where did they get the fissionable material? Production of fissionable matterial didn't begin in the british isles until after the war ended, in fact a bunch of the british scientists worked on the manhattan project as a joint effort.

Your story is full of something, and it stinks. Not only is it unsupported by history it is not supported by common sense. During WWII British millitary planning was better then the US's, but you didn't develop the bomb first so stop fantasizing that Britain is a world power anymore, the British empire fell a long time ago.

 

[Mingon]

Thats harsh, travisbickle Although the UK is put to shame by its bilingual neighbours We are not as bad as some. Dont know about elsewhere but in the UK indian families are step above most other nationalities, bad parenting is the problem overhere cause single/teenage mum's get such a good deal, I am just glad we Havent got guns over here that would see some bad problems.

 

[Mingon]

Rahvin I am not going to get into a slanging match with you, I would suggest you look up the difference between explosion and detonation it might help. I said I worked in the building where it was tested not on it, again subtle difference. I am not going to argue with you it is not sensible to start putting dates and information out over the net, if you dont understand this then fine ask a grown-up. Dont get me wrong I like the US but the have the wrong idea when it comes to defense spending i.e chuck money at the problem till its solved instead of getting to the root of the problem. Best example was when the Stealth fighter was detected on the radar at the UK farnboro air show, american response was 'we didnt turn it on'

 

[rahvin]

<<Rahvin I am not going to get into a slanging match with you, I would suggest you look up the difference between explosion and detonation it might help.>>

So the british were the first to detonate a nuclear weapon, but it didn't explode?

&quot;detonate verb
to (cause to) explode&quot;

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=detonate*1+0

<<I said I worked in the building where it was tested not on it, again subtle difference.>>

Ah so of course the little british nuclear bomb fairy told you that a bomb was developed and &quot;tested&quot; and &quot;detonated&quot; (prior to 1945) but it didn't explode. Uh huh.

<<I am not going to argue with you it is not sensible to start putting dates and information out over the net, if you dont understand this then fine ask a grown-up.>>

Yea not sensible to put dates to anything because it proves you are a LIAR. Right? (nice attempt at a slam though )

<<Dont get me wrong I like the US but the have the wrong idea when it comes to defense spending i.e chuck money at the problem till its solved instead of getting to the root of the problem.>>

Lol, you are a riot.

<<Best example was when the Stealth fighter was detected on the radar at the UK farnboro air show, american response was 'we didnt turn it on'>>

Contrary to what you may believe, the stealth fighter doesn't have a non-signature in radar. Belief that it did would indicate a complete lack of understanding of what stealth technology is.

I'm anxiously awaiting your response, I'm curious just how many feet you can get in your mouth.

 

[JorgeElPrimero]

Hey guys

I don't think its that far out of reach I mean how COOL would that be if you were GATES. The man can do BASICALLY anything he wants. He is testing his power with every microsoft release. Hey if I were him ... well first off I would give about 10 billion to starving people ... but other than that I would want to play with that kind of access. Who knows how the NSA got involved (if they did) but it would be cool.

 

[MadRat]

&quot;Best example was when the Stealth fighter was detected on the radar at the UK farnboro air show, american response was 'we didnt turn it on'&quot;

By definition the first stealth fighter by design was the Northrop F-20A Tigershark, because it had the radar signature the size of its cockpit. Stealth just means small radar signature. The F-117A is regularly detectable by conventional radar dishes at around 12 miles out. High-definition radar is a little better, at no less than 28 miles out, where it appears as a 600mph bird. (Pretty easy to tell the difference between a bird and a stealth.) Backscatter and certain phased array radars, which make up the bulk of long-range detection equipment, have fits trying to maintain contact with these birds.

What people don't know is that the Czechs designed a stealth radar as early as 1990, which uses a network of dishes. Stealth fighters have had a very limited role in hostile environments world-wide ever since the Czechs let the cat out of the bag. Even the Iraqis, under the UN arms embargo, have instituted an anti-stealth radar network. Serbia didn't bag that F-117 by shear accident.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

As far as the Germans go, they are probably the most disciplined and passionate people of Europe. They may not master languages as much as the peoples around them, but they are normally very intelligent people. No knock on them, but I just don't think they are very good &quot;neighbors&quot; considering the tolerance other Europeans have displayed to me on my travels. Even the French, as bad as their reputation is, were much friendlier. Only the Italians seemed to be grumpier on average, although that really varied by the parts of Italy I've been.

 

[emjem]

gtd 2000

No doubt many German people made significant contributions to our society. But that has nothing to do with the absurdity of the thought that the German military, in 2001, thinks, if indeed they do, that they have secrets that Americans must extract from them via MS product backdoors. It is equally absurd to think that any respectable military organization would use unprotected MS product to process their secrets.

I don't need your simplistic lectures on American history. All Americans, except for the Indians, started from somewhere else in the world. So we don't need your platitudes about how Americans would be failures without the influx of Germans.

Now go read another history book. Maybe you will see how foolish Americans, including my foolish ancestors, pulled your sophisticated Brit Empire arses from the German fires of two world wars.

 

[Zorba]

<< Now go read another history book. Maybe you will see how foolish Americans, including my foolish ancestors, pulled your sophisticated Brit Empire arses from the German fires of two world wars. >>



LMFAO!!!



<< All Americans, except for the Indians, started from somewhere else in the world. >>



Even the natives came from elsewhere.


I don't believe any nation would use MS products for any classifed information in the first place.

 

[extro]

Say what? The NSA is spying on England, Germany, France...etc?

GOOD!


If they're not using their own encryption software, they deserve what they get.

 

[gtd2000]

emjem



<< You make Americans look extremely foolish >>



I did not say that Americans were foolish - not in the least - I assume you have a grasp of the language &quot;English&quot; - also the language of the people who colonised my own country &quot;Scotland&quot;.
I said &quot;You&quot; - not Americans in general - very big difference.

I was not attempting to have a particular &quot;go-at-you&quot; with my comments but as you have mentioned all Americans who are not of North American Indian descent came from far reaching places on the globe.
I personally believe the Indians came from China/Eastern Russia - this is only my theory and will probably not be found in any text book.

If you take it that modern day Americans (predominantly white Europeans) came mainly from Europe then you may in fact realise that an enormous debt of your current economic superiority does in fact result from Germans.

Regarding WWII - the UK is still paying off the debt for the Americans coming in to &quot;save our asses&quot; to this day - don't think that it was a benevolent gesture!

War is a tradgedy and I hope none of us here have to endure such misery and unnecessary suffering.

 

[gtd2000]

Unfortunately while responding to the last post, the thread did not fully refesh and I could not refer to all your points.

You have a classic over-reaction to my post - where do I mention American failures?


<< So we don't need your platitudes about how Americans would be failures without the influx of Germans. >>



Regarding this


<< I don't need your simplistic lectures on American history >>


I'm not lecturing you on US history - but please remember - history is not always accurate or factual/truthful.

We generally have the idea that the Germans were a bunch of sausage eating Nazis - the truth is that the majority of Germans in WWII were the same as any human in any other country at that time.

Now consider the history of the &quot;Pioneers&quot; they were basically tough rugged types out to build &quot;America&quot; - hero types for us all to learn about.
The reality is that they were just &quot;thieves&quot; stealing all the land from the North American Indians.
In the history books you read did it tell you about that?

History is conveniently written to make the current &quot;top dog&quot; sound virtuous.

If the Germans had won WWII - we would have an entirely different view point of National Socialism, the British Empire and The USA

Anyway - keep an open mind - believe half what you hear and half what you see

 

[Mingon]

Rahvin, I understand how stealth technology and its small signature display works, what I dont understand is how the american response wa 'we didnt turn it on. The majority of stealth technlogy relies on the externals of the plane/boat for a country to turn around and say Their plane was detected was due to it not being turned on is plain stupid.

 

[gtd2000]

I'll tell u what was unbelievably &quot;stupid&quot; - that sub that sank the Japanese boat a few weeks ago - when you read about how much technology that is onboard those subs - it's incredulous that it happened

 

[BFG10K]

or even use LINUX??

LOL!

The Germans are scared that the US have MS's source code, so they switch to an OS where the source code is freely available to anyone who wants it?

LOL!