Andrew:
Less than one-third didn't support the American Revolution. You aren't counting the true Americans.
Anyway, that's an entirely different issue.
I agree we need more people to vote. Democracy ain't democracy if we don't have voter participation. It becomes little more than an oligarchy of entreched interests. We are almost there.
Less than one-third didn't support the American Revolution. You aren't counting the true Americans.
Anyway, that's an entirely different issue.
I agree we need more people to vote. Democracy ain't democracy if we don't have voter participation. It becomes little more than an oligarchy of entreched interests. We are almost there.
Chess - As I stated before, we don't think counting votes is unamerican (but in doing so, you are somewhat saying that a characteristic of a republican is unamerican {jmo}). We think the law should prevail. However, Gore wants to change the law after the people casted their votes. If thats allowed then I guess it's ok, for the republicans to ask for a recount of the whole state even though its past the required deadline. If one side can alter a law then I guess both sides can.
Military votes - if Federal law mandates that they should be counted then we should follow that since its a federal election.
Skoorb - LOL...bang!!!
Military votes - if Federal law mandates that they should be counted then we should follow that since its a federal election.
Skoorb - LOL...bang!!!
FWIW--this is one is going to come down to whether or not "pregnant chads" can be counted as votes. I'm guessing that question goes to the US Supreme Court where they will rule on the precedent set in Roe v. State of Alabama--which says that states cannot effectively change the process of counting votes after an election. I expect that will be the deciding factor, but when? Now that's a good question.
FettsBabe:
This is the first I've heard of your support of Clinton.
Unfortunately, your ideals aren't the views of most Republicans. In a recent poll, 60% of Republicans said they would not view the Gore presidency as legitimate if he won. I think you underestimate the degree of antipathy the Republicans have for the Democrats. Hastert and Gebhardt haven't spoken in 6 months. I hope things get better because I agree with your underlying premise that we should support our leader regardless of who he is. But I doubt it.
This is the first I've heard of your support of Clinton.
Unfortunately, your ideals aren't the views of most Republicans. In a recent poll, 60% of Republicans said they would not view the Gore presidency as legitimate if he won. I think you underestimate the degree of antipathy the Republicans have for the Democrats. Hastert and Gebhardt haven't spoken in 6 months. I hope things get better because I agree with your underlying premise that we should support our leader regardless of who he is. But I doubt it.
FettsBabe:
Obviously, Republicans are from Mars and Democrats are from Venus.
Your arguments, like almost all of the Republican arguments, make no sense to me. My arguments make no sense to you.
And I thought understanding women was hard.
Obviously, Republicans are from Mars and Democrats are from Venus.
Your arguments, like almost all of the Republican arguments, make no sense to me. My arguments make no sense to you.
And I thought understanding women was hard.
<< In a recent poll, 60% of Republicans said they would not view the Gore presidency as legitimate if he won. >>
I wouldn't think his election to President was legitimate, but I would support him, and I think the republican party would agree. The poll is kinda tricky in that aspect..."legitimate President"...Thats a play on words and can be altered to defend your or my side depending on who's stating the argument.
Corn
Diamond Member
- Nov 12, 1999
- 6,390
- 29
- 91
chess9 said:
<< ...I was saying the Republicans think counting votes is un-American. Big difference. >>
I don't think there is one Republican alive that thinks that counting votes is un-American. The real issues is that they belive that manufacturing votes is un-American.
Determining "voter intent" (especially in areas where the election commission is woefully partisan in favor of their candidate) is the real crux of the Republican's argument. Even setting aside the bag full of chads which have fallen to the floor in the hand recount (strange, I thought those ballots were sturdy and could be run thousands of times through the machines--but somehow their little chads abandon ship when touched by Democrats) where does someone come off determing what the voter intended to vote? Maybe the voter was going to vote, then changed their mind and decided, ehh, I really can't stand anyone...? How would we possibly know? We can't--and therefore we should only count the ballots which are decidedly clear--ballots which have been punched thourgh.
I'll take bets that the overwhelming majority of these ballots which exhibit "dimples" only exhibit "dimples" on the presidential section (clearly showing voter indecisiveness--not intention) while the rest of the ballot shows clear and decisive votes. How many of these "vote psychics (err, I mean "judges"" will take how the rest of the ballot looks when considering their decision. C'mon now, the presidential ballot was the first section to vote, where did these "frail old folks" get the energy to punch completely through the rest of the ballot when they didn't have the strength to punch through their very first vote?
[edited to finish incomplete sentences..... ]
<< ...I was saying the Republicans think counting votes is un-American. Big difference. >>
I don't think there is one Republican alive that thinks that counting votes is un-American. The real issues is that they belive that manufacturing votes is un-American.
Determining "voter intent" (especially in areas where the election commission is woefully partisan in favor of their candidate) is the real crux of the Republican's argument. Even setting aside the bag full of chads which have fallen to the floor in the hand recount (strange, I thought those ballots were sturdy and could be run thousands of times through the machines--but somehow their little chads abandon ship when touched by Democrats) where does someone come off determing what the voter intended to vote? Maybe the voter was going to vote, then changed their mind and decided, ehh, I really can't stand anyone...? How would we possibly know? We can't--and therefore we should only count the ballots which are decidedly clear--ballots which have been punched thourgh.
I'll take bets that the overwhelming majority of these ballots which exhibit "dimples" only exhibit "dimples" on the presidential section (clearly showing voter indecisiveness--not intention) while the rest of the ballot shows clear and decisive votes. How many of these "vote psychics (err, I mean "judges"
" will take how the rest of the ballot looks when considering their decision. C'mon now, the presidential ballot was the first section to vote, where did these "frail old folks" get the energy to punch completely through the rest of the ballot when they didn't have the strength to punch through their very first vote? [edited to finish incomplete sentences.....
]<<In a recent poll, 60% of Republicans said they would not view the Gore presidency as legitimate if he won>>
...... and expect that number to climb significantly after the supreme court of Florida comprised of all democrats (4 of whom made significant contributions to the Gore ticket) tries to railroad Bush and make Gore president -- from a supposedly non-partisan judicial court.
I, along with most others, will not see Gore as the legitimate president if he does pull off the theft. Count 1, Gore lost. Count 2, Gore lost. Absentee Ballots, Gore lost. Bring in the legal teams, get some partisan judges, do some subjective vote counting, now Gore wins. And you expect any sane person to think that's legitimate??????
...... and expect that number to climb significantly after the supreme court of Florida comprised of all democrats (4 of whom made significant contributions to the Gore ticket) tries to railroad Bush and make Gore president -- from a supposedly non-partisan judicial court.
I, along with most others, will not see Gore as the legitimate president if he does pull off the theft. Count 1, Gore lost. Count 2, Gore lost. Absentee Ballots, Gore lost. Bring in the legal teams, get some partisan judges, do some subjective vote counting, now Gore wins. And you expect any sane person to think that's legitimate??????
Corn:
My understanding is that Palm Beach County is raising the same questions you raised. They seem extremely hesitant to count "dimples" unless the entire ballot shows evidence of dimples. If the rest of the ballot is punched, but the presidential race is merely dimpled, their current position is that it is impossible to discern voter intent. That is why Gore has picked up so few votes so far in Palm Beach County. If PBC stands it ground, claims of extreme partisanship in the PBC canvassing board would be hard to maintain.
EDIT - BTW, I lived in West Palm Beach for three years. Punch card ballots are lame. I am surprised they have lasted this long. One good thing that might come out of this mess: national standards for ballots that are simple, make sense, and emphasize voter responsibility to mark their ballot correctly.
My understanding is that Palm Beach County is raising the same questions you raised. They seem extremely hesitant to count "dimples" unless the entire ballot shows evidence of dimples. If the rest of the ballot is punched, but the presidential race is merely dimpled, their current position is that it is impossible to discern voter intent. That is why Gore has picked up so few votes so far in Palm Beach County. If PBC stands it ground, claims of extreme partisanship in the PBC canvassing board would be hard to maintain.
EDIT - BTW, I lived in West Palm Beach for three years. Punch card ballots are lame. I am surprised they have lasted this long. One good thing that might come out of this mess: national standards for ballots that are simple, make sense, and emphasize voter responsibility to mark their ballot correctly.
<< national standards >>
Illegal under the Constitution -- the states are free to determine how to choose their electors and run their elections (in accordance with the Constitution, of course -- equal protection anyone?). However, I am sure that Florida, among other states who do not wish to share its fate, will update their election methods to discard this ballot form faster than a Democratic chad hitting the floor after being counted by a Democratic election worker.
<< However, Gore wants to change the law after the people casted their votes >>
Gore hasn't asked for a change in law. There were two laws that were conflicting. The rather arbitrary seven day time limit. And the right to have a manual recount in a close election. And the right to have the people's votes counted won.
<< If you can't even discuss an issue without all the derogatory comments then maybe its time for us all to just shut up and watch. >>
I'm about ready to leave. I'm tired of all the derogatory comments and the whining.
The folks in Florida (yeah both the Republicans and Democrats) are trying to do their jobs. Let them. This talk of stealing, mischief, dishonest judges.....well, is a bunch of talk.
See my post about Let Bush Have It.
Andrew:
I know the states are free under the Constitution to determine their own system. I tend to favor that approach. I've been reading the Constitution a lot lately
I am hoping that the states will agree to national standards, not that they will be mandated at the federal level. I know it is probably overly optimistic.
I know the states are free under the Constitution to determine their own system. I tend to favor that approach. I've been reading the Constitution a lot lately
I am hoping that the states will agree to national standards, not that they will be mandated at the federal level. I know it is probably overly optimistic.
Ride:
Don't give up now. !!!
I don't want to be the only sane one reading and responding to their insults and banal commentary on politics.
This game is not for the meek, or weak of heart. And playing rough can be fun.
Don't give up now. !!!
I don't want to be the only sane one reading and responding to their insults and banal commentary on politics.
This game is not for the meek, or weak of heart. And playing rough can be fun.
chess9 quote:
<< Don't give up now. !!!
I don't want to be the only sane one reading and responding to their insults and banal commentary on politics.
This game is not for the meek, or weak of heart. And playing rough can be fun. >>
True strength is found in responding to the insulting and the banal without becoming insulting and banal.
Unfortunately, that isn't as much fun
<< Don't give up now. !!!
I don't want to be the only sane one reading and responding to their insults and banal commentary on politics.
This game is not for the meek, or weak of heart. And playing rough can be fun. >>
True strength is found in responding to the insulting and the banal without becoming insulting and banal.
Unfortunately, that isn't as much fun
True strength is bench pressing 300 pounds.
We all don't want to be Casper Milquetoast or a religious zombie.
We all don't want to be Casper Milquetoast or a religious zombie.
<< Yep, they got their recount, and a manual recount, and again, and again. >>
AGAIN AND AGAIN?
One machine recount.
Four couties request manual recounts, legal by Florida (and other state's) law.
Count as many ballots as you can. Someone will emerge with the most votes.
chess9:
Strength exists to serve other people.
BTW, My current maximum bench is 332, free weights. I am 35 years old, 6'1" and 185 lbs.
Strength exists to serve other people.
BTW, My current maximum bench is 332, free weights. I am 35 years old, 6'1" and 185 lbs.
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