George Soros: Conference at Bretton Woods

[bamacre]

What's inflation again? Yeah, exactly.

Uhh, what?

Do you want the original definition? Or the "modern" one? Shouldn't you know both?

High oil prices have nothing to do with a weak dollar, that's Libya, speculation, and strong demand from a roaring U.S. comeback the last 4-6 months.

That's complete bullshit and you know it. Well, maybe you don't. You can't continue to fool people...
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704893604576199113452719274.html

Food prices been be flat for 2+ years, literally 0 or slightly less, so inflation was expected by everyone. It won't last. Gold is a bubble so that'll be easy to see pop.

Yeahhh, when do you expect this gold bubble to pop? People have been saying this for 6 years or so. It will eventually be a bubble, and it'll pop, I'm sure, but do you have any month or year you want to throw out there?

 

[bamacre]

You'll only find supporters for Soros here.

I'm not so sure of that. According to a few folks here, our monetary system is just fine. It hasn't caused any problems whatsoever. Not sure why Soros thinks we need a new monetary system. :whiste:

 

[boomerang]

I'm not so sure of that. According to a few folks here, our monetary system is just fine. It hasn't caused any problems whatsoever. Not sure why Soros thinks we need a new monetary system. :whiste:

Yeah, I'm unfortunately too often prone to hyperbole. 'You'll find a bevy of supporters for Soros here.' would have been better.

Ran across this.


Two George Soros Events Aim to Remake the Financial Order and the Media -- So Where's the Reporting?

 

[matt0611]

Uhh, what?

Do you want the original definition? Or the "modern" one? Shouldn't you know both?



That's complete bullshit and you know it. Well, maybe you don't. You can't continue to fool people...
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704893604576199113452719274.html

...

Maybe inflation has not hit the US consumer hard yet, but I think its coming, and soon.

-Walmart CEO expects inflation:
http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/retail/2011-03-30-wal-mart-ceo-expects-inflation_N.htm

-Chinas inflation rate is approaching 10% trying to keep up with our increase in the dollar supply.

-The ECB is starting to raise its rate because of inflation fears.

-Almost every commodity on the planet has been going up in price.
GCC commodity index:

-Stocks going up as well
S&P 500

-The 10 year note has been slowly increasing yields even with the fed purchasing a lot of bonds.

The Fed is gonna have to try to balance between inflation and severely hurting our economy through higher interest rates.

Will be interesting to see what happens...

 

[First]

Uhh, what?

Do you want the original definition? Or the "modern" one? Shouldn't you know both?

I was asking what inflation was, the rate, not the definition. It's not out of control so you've still been wrong going on 4+ years now.

That's complete bullshit and you know it. Well, maybe you don't. You can't continue to fool people...
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704893604576199113452719274.html

You'll have to explain what part of that article is supposed to call me on this supposed BS you speak of because you haven't actually made an argument; you've posted a link, much the same way conspiracy theorists post Youtube videos "proving" their hackery.

Yeahhh, when do you expect this gold bubble to pop? People have been saying this for 6 years or so. It will eventually be a bubble, and it'll pop, I'm sure, but do you have any month or year you want to throw out there?

Sure, here's my prediction. I bet that it'll pop so badly that it will yield a negative real return over a 30 year period. So, let's start from an absolute bottom, say the year 2000. So between 2000 and 2030 I predict that, despite it's superb return for these last 11 years, it'll blow chunks when you aggregate those real returns with the next 19 years.

So now that I've made my prediction, you gonna man up and make yours?

 

[bamacre]

I was asking what inflation was, the rate, not the definition. It's not out of control so you've still been wrong going on 4+ years now.

I'd like to know what I said in April 2007 in reference to what inflation would be like in April 2011. I'm sure you would, too. But I doubt you do.

You'll have to explain what part of that article is supposed to call me on this supposed BS you speak of because you haven't actually made an argument; you've posted a link, much the same way conspiracy theorists post Youtube videos "proving" their hackery.

I didn't post the link in an attempt to prove anything other than how out of touch people like yourself are. People like us aren't poor, we don't spend a large percentage of our income on food, gas, and other necessities. So while you and LegendKiller "cheer on Bernanke," poor people here in the USA, and across the globe, certainly are not cheering him on. And as these prices continue to climb, more and more will be upset, and rightfully so. For you to say oil is up because of the altercation in Libya is completely ludicrous. If gold, silver, cotton, soybean, corn, and almost every other commodity under the sun were flat while oil increased in price, you would then have some credibility. But the rest of us live in a place called reality, where your credibility is somewhere between low and none.

Sure, here's my prediction. I bet that it'll pop so badly that it will yield a negative real return over a 30 year period. So, let's start from an absolute bottom, say the year 2000. So between 2000 and 2030 I predict that, despite it's superb return for these last 11 years, it'll blow chunks when you aggregate those real returns with the next 19 years.

So now that I've made my prediction, you gonna man up and make yours?

I'll predict the gold bubble will pop when real interest rates are on par with real growth. If you're more intelligent than I imagine, and I cannot "man up" enough to predict this is the case, you'll understand that both of us are making some very long-term calls.

 

[yllus]

It would be really nice if there were a single, agreed upon system that all nations used so that there would be less manipulation and less ability for corporations to go "labor shopping" and screw our own population in their quest for profits at any cost.

They'd still manipulate and institute ridiculous labour/taxation policies. All a single currency would do is facilitate a bailout by others in the system. See: Ireland, Greece, Portugal.

 

[LegendKiller]

I'd like to know what I said in April 2007 in reference to what inflation would be like in April 2011. I'm sure you would, too. But I doubt you do.



I didn't post the link in an attempt to prove anything other than how out of touch people like yourself are. People like us aren't poor, we don't spend a large percentage of our income on food, gas, and other necessities. So while you and LegendKiller "cheer on Bernanke," poor people here in the USA, and across the globe, certainly are not cheering him on. And as these prices continue to climb, more and more will be upset, and rightfully so. For you to say oil is up because of the altercation in Libya is completely ludicrous. If gold, silver, cotton, soybean, corn, and almost every other commodity under the sun were flat while oil increased in price, you would then have some credibility. But the rest of us live in a place called reality, where your credibility is somewhere between low and none.



I'll predict the gold bubble will pop when real interest rates are on par with real growth. If you're more intelligent than I imagine, and I cannot "man up" enough to predict this is the case, you'll understand that both of us are making some very long-term calls.

What would there be to cheer if jobs kept getting sucked out of this country by China as a result of their manipulation of currency to pump up their manufacturing sector?

People like bemoan the loss of manufacturing and jobs yet fail to realize the single biggest contributor to that.

That's why I call you a checkers player, you can only think about the next year. I'm thinking about the next decade or 3.

The Chinese are playing chess and your "Good Guy" (TM) bullshit is losing. This isn't a fair world and they ARE playing the game better. That is, until Bernanke decided to fight back.

A little short-term pain is far better than long-term pain. However, most libertopians can't figure this shit out. It doesn't come through YouTube that well.

 

[bamacre]

What would there be to cheer if jobs kept getting sucked out of this country by China as a result of their manipulation of currency to pump up their manufacturing sector?

People like bemoan the loss of manufacturing and jobs yet fail to realize the single biggest contributor to that.

You and I both know that QE and devaluing the dollar is NOT the only way to deal with China.

That's why I call you a checkers player, you can only think about the next year. I'm thinking about the next decade or 3.

All the while, some people are trying hard just to put food on their table tomorrow.

The Chinese are playing chess and your "Good Guy" (TM) bullshit is losing. This isn't a fair world and they ARE playing the game better. That is, until Bernanke decided to fight back.

A little short-term pain is far better than long-term pain. However, most libertopians can't figure this shit out. It doesn't come through YouTube that well.

More straw man and empty rhetoric, LK. You're better than this.

 

[Anarchist420]

This is why legal tender sucks and one of many reasons as to why the Articles of Confederation is better. Currency should be as decentralized as possible.

The bancor is my worst nightmare. It will destroy the few remnants of anti-federalism that the world still has.

Having a million different currencies is a lot better than one, not only because value is subjective, but also because there is a chance that at least a few currencies out of the million available will be strong.

 

[LegendKiller]

This is why legal tender sucks and one of many reasons as to why the Articles of Confederation is better. Currency should be as decentralized as possible.

The bancor is my worst nightmare. It will destroy the few remnants of anti-federalism that the world still has.

Having a million different currencies is a lot better than one, not only because value is subjective, but also because there is a chance that at least a few currencies out of the million available will be strong.

And transactional inefficiencies will bring any modern economy to its knees. Really, kid, don't play in the space, you'll get hurt.

 

[LegendKiller]

You and I both know that QE and devaluing the dollar is NOT the only way to deal with China.



All the while, some people are trying hard just to put food on their table tomorrow.



More straw man and empty rhetoric, LK. You're better than this.

What other way is there to deal with them? I would agree there is, but most are worse alternatives. Personally, I favor huge tariffs to bring their goods back to parity. Not to mention reciprocity for trade laws. Try to get that through Congress.

Again, what food will there be if they keep fucking us over long-term? Think long-term.

Sorry, but it isn't strawman or empty, it's the truth. You just can't wrap your head around the inevitable outcome of China's unchecked growth.

 

[bamacre]

What other way is there to deal with them? I would agree there is, but most are worse alternatives. Personally, I favor huge tariffs to bring their goods back to parity. Not to mention reciprocity for trade laws. Try to get that through Congress.

That's where we agree, and that's exactly what I'm talking about. Just because that may be politically unpopular doesn't mean it's not right. So instead of "cheering Bernanke on" and making things worse for the poor, many of whom are unemployed as is, perhaps you should be here educating people on a better way of doing things. And honestly, I think most Americans would be happy to hear about fixing tariffs and making trade more fair so jobs can come back to the US. It should be easier to sell than quantitative easing. It just takes some leadership, and someone willing to stand up to corporate interests. Too bad we don't have this.

Again, what food will there be if they keep fucking us over long-term? Think long-term.

Sorry, but it isn't strawman or empty, it's the truth. You just can't wrap your head around the inevitable outcome of China's unchecked growth.

Sure it is, that's exactly what a straw man argument is. You suggested my argument was something it isn't, and then argued against the position I never had. You implied that my argument was that if we stopped playing games, the rest of the world would, too. That's NOT what I was suggesting at all, proven by my words above. It sounds like we're in agreement as to what to do about the problem, I'm just not accepting the "lesser evil" choice, as you seem to be. That's where we disagree.

 

[Jhhnn]

This is an old article, but I doubt Soros has changed much in the meanwhile-

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C07E3DA1E3BF935A35751C1A96E958260&pagewanted=1

''We have to distinguish between playing by the rules and making the rules,'' Mr. Soros said. ''Playing by the rules, one does the best one can, irrespective of the social consequences. Whereas in making the rules, people ought to be concerned with the social consequences and not with their personal interests -- in other words, not to bend the rules to their benefit or their advantage. This is a principle which I have certainly observed.''

Too bad that the Koch Bros don't see it the same way.

 

[First]

I'd like to know what I said in April 2007 in reference to what inflation would be like in April 2011. I'm sure you would, too. But I doubt you do.

Please. You've been quoting and agreeing with Ron Paul nuttery for years, more recently with inflation. http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?p=24725854&highlight=inflation#post24725854

I didn't post the link in an attempt to prove anything other than how out of touch people like yourself are. People like us aren't poor, we don't spend a large percentage of our income on food, gas, and other necessities. So while you and LegendKiller "cheer on Bernanke," poor people here in the USA, and across the globe, certainly are not cheering him on. And as these prices continue to climb, more and more will be upset, and rightfully so. For you to say oil is up because of the altercation in Libya is completely ludicrous.

Except that's not what I said, if you read what I wrote at all. It's statistically verifiable if you believe in forward moving time continuums that oil didn't skyrocket and become unstable until Libya and general ME revolution and unrest started getting out of control. That's in addition to higher oil demand as the economy continues to strengthen (increased asset and commodity prices are a very common trend in a healthy economy).

If gold, silver, cotton, soybean, corn, and almost every other commodity under the sun were flat while oil increased in price, you would then have some credibility. But the rest of us live in a place called reality, where your credibility is somewhere between low and none.

WTF do those commodities prices have to do with U.S. dollar inflation caused by the Fed? You're not even attempting to draw a specific, rational conclusion.

I'll predict the gold bubble will pop when real interest rates are on par with real growth. If you're more intelligent than I imagine, and I cannot "man up" enough to predict this is the case, you'll understand that both of us are making some very long-term calls.

You're not making any call here, actually, you are yet again wimping out of making a prediction with actual numbers and figures. Saying real interest rates must be on par with real growth is a thin statement that frankly means nothing and makes no sense. It's vague and very Schiff/Paul-like.

 

[bamacre]

Please. You've been quoting and agreeing with Ron Paul nuttery for years, more recently with inflation.

Which is relevant to your claim how? Oh, it's not.

Except that's not what I said, if you read what I wrote at all. It's statistically verifiable if you believe in forward moving time continuums that oil didn't skyrocket and become unstable until Libya and general ME revolution and unrest started getting out of control.

Wrong.

That's in addition to higher oil demand as the economy continues to strengthen (increased asset and commodity prices are a very common trend in a healthy economy).

LOL, yeah the economy is really booming. :whiste:

Prices should fall in a healthy economy. That's what makes an economy good, people who want to work, work, incomes gradually increase, and prices gradually decrease, standard of living increases. Of course you probably don't understand what a good economy means, we haven't had one in ages. Every "good" economy we've had recently was unsustainable. All we have are big booms which only lead to big busts. A middle class that has been shrinking for decades is not the result of a healthy economy.

WTF do those commodities prices have to do with U.S. dollar inflation caused by the Fed? You're not even attempting to draw a specific, rational conclusion.

It's common sense. The central banks of the world print money in mad fashion and prices go up. Again, oil is not alone at all when it comes to higher prices. The entire commodity market has been in a bull run for 11+ years, and the recent monetary inflation is pumping prices up yet again. You keep looking only at oil, you need to look at the bigger picture.

You're not making any call here, actually, you are yet again wimping out of making a prediction with actual numbers and figures. Saying real interest rates must be on par with real growth is a thin statement that frankly means nothing and makes no sense. It's vague and very Schiff/Paul-like.

As opposed to your own prediction which was drawn out to the year 2030? If I'm still hanging around here in the year 2030, yapping with momo's like you, someone shoot me.

 

[Anarchist420]

That's where we agree, and that's exactly what I'm talking about. Just because that may be politically unpopular doesn't mean it's not right. So instead of "cheering Bernanke on" and making things worse for the poor, many of whom are unemployed as is, perhaps you should be here educating people on a better way of doing things. And honestly, I think most Americans would be happy to hear about fixing tariffs and making trade more fair so jobs can come back to the US. It should be easier to sell than quantitative easing. It just takes some leadership, and someone willing to stand up to corporate interests. Too bad we don't have this.

I thought you were Rothbardian.

Also, what's to stop the CEOs from reaping in all the money from tariffs?

How do we know that American made goods are going to be any better than China made goods?

 

[First]

Which is relevant to your claim how? Oh, it's not.

How is you pimping inflation-crazed Ron Paul rhetoric not relevant? Don't be a tool.

Wrong.

You just posted a chart showing oil started skyrocketing when Egypt/Bahrain/Libya/ME unrest starting occurring months ago. Thanks I guess, lol?

LOL, yeah the economy is really booming. :whiste:

Hate to break it to you, but employment, profits and GDP says it really is. But you know you're fighting a losing battle with me when it comes to you getting specific numbers.

Prices should fall in a healthy economy.

Um, no. lol.

That's what makes an economy good, people who want to work, work, incomes gradually increase, and prices gradually decrease, standard of living increases. Of course you probably don't understand what a good economy means, we haven't had one in ages. Every "good" economy we've had recently was unsustainable. All we have are big booms which only lead to big busts. A middle class that has been shrinking for decades is not the result of a healthy economy.

The middle class both as a % of the population and in terms of total numbers has been growing for decades, don't know what nuttery you're on about. Middle class income and totals aren't growing fast enough. That's what you should have said.

It's common sense. The central banks of the world print money in mad fashion and prices go up.

Except they didn't go up for 2+ years despite trillions in infusions. This is a fact and you've been spanked with it over and over. Now inflation is finally occurring (as I and others said it would), it's not actually anywhere near severe or even negative, and suddenly you attribute this to cash infusions from QE? QE2 is always a possible culprit but you'd have to be daft to think markets haven't already priced in those considerations. They price in everything months ahead of time and, sorry, there is zero evidence that TARP, TALF, general bailouts or QE/QE2 have caused any inflation since October 2008. As always I await your evidence.

Again, oil is not alone at all when it comes to higher prices. The entire commodity market has been in a bull run for 11+ years, and the recent monetary inflation is pumping prices up yet again. You keep looking only at oil, you need to look at the bigger picture.

I've only looked at oil in your imagination; in reality I'm well aware of food and commodities going up. You'd have to be pretty out to lunch to think that has anything to do with realized inflation; it's anticipation. Right now commodities are by and large likely be bought due to the fear of inflation, not it actually occurring. You'd have to be stupid not to invest in commodities over these last few years given what we know about gold being a nice hedge against inflation, cash infusions around the world and overheating economies in China. Doesn't mean it's not an awful long term investment though.

As opposed to your own prediction which was drawn out to the year 2030? If I'm still hanging around here in the year 2030, yapping with momo's like you, someone shoot me.

But you're a wimp, dude.

 

[bfdd]

love all the soros lovers. the dude is not different than those they despise, but because he talks about such "pretty" things, they fall for it. Morons. Fuck George Soros.

 

[Jhhnn]

love all the soros lovers. the dude is not different than those they despise, but because he talks about such "pretty" things, they fall for it. Morons. Fuck George Soros.

Do you think that has something vaguely resembling "content"?

 

[Zebo]

WTF do those commodities prices have to do with U.S. dollar inflation caused by the Fed? You're not even attempting to draw a specific, rational conclusion.

Money follows supply and demand curves like anything else. All money is is a representation of value. When you dilute that value without matching production the market will correct.

If not why not just print up 1 million and give it out to every man woman and child? Well because a dozen eggs would cost 1,000,003 next day. Or thereabouts...

Mathematically speaking when changing a denominator of a fraction what each unit of the numerator is worth changes in lockstep.

 

[Zebo]

Which is relevant to your claim how? Oh, it's not.




Wrong.

LOL, yeah the economy is really booming. :whiste:

Prices should fall in a healthy economy. That's what makes an economy good, people who want to work, work, incomes gradually increase, and prices gradually decrease, standard of living increases. Of course you probably don't understand what a good economy means, we haven't had one in ages. Every "good" economy we've had recently was unsustainable. All we have are big booms which only lead to big busts. A middle class that has been shrinking for decades is not the result of a healthy economy.




It's common sense. The central banks of the world print money in mad fashion and prices go up. Again, oil is not alone at all when it comes to higher prices. The entire commodity market has been in a bull run for 11+ years, and the recent monetary inflation is pumping prices up yet again. You keep looking only at oil, you need to look at the bigger picture.



As opposed to your own prediction which was drawn out to the year 2030? If I'm still hanging around here in the year 2030, yapping with momo's like you, someone shoot me.

Yup more dollars chasing same goods. I don't know what's so hard to understand about this.


Picture a navy ship docking in Philippines/ What were $5 head jobs became $20

 

[NoStateofMind]

Soros states the U.S. dollar is essentially not the world reserve currency. Reserve is 2/3 U.S. dollar and 1/3 Euro. Soros says that the Euro central banks only have to focus on inflation while the FED has to balance between inflation regulation and job creation. He also speaks on how China was largely "immune" to the financial crisis experienced by the western world because of regulations that exist against leveraging etc.

 

[LegendKiller]

Soros states the U.S. dollar is essentially not the world reserve currency. Reserve is 2/3 U.S. dollar and 1/3 Euro. Soros says that the Euro central banks only have to focus on inflation while the FED has to balance between inflation regulation and job creation. He also speaks on how China was largely "immune" to the financial crisis experienced by the western world because of regulations that exist against leveraging etc.

So he misses on all 3 points.

1. The dollar is the reserve currency, it doesn't matter if the Euro has 1/3.

2. The Euros have to worry about keeping the Euro together, meaning that without huge structural deficit changes the currency union is unviable, especially considering that the ECB can't control jobs at the country level. Their task is immensely more complex than the Fed.

3. China was "immune" because they could throw unlimited amounts of money and tell the economy to "GO GO GO GO GO GO GO GO". That's how command economies work. Have you seen the ghost cities? When 70% of your GDP is just from construction (much smaller for the US which is less than 10%), and the demand for that construction isn't there, you have problems.


PCS - Do you just look at something and not think about it? I really wonder how much thought you put into this stuff.

 

[fskimospy]

So he misses on all 3 points.

1. The dollar is the reserve currency, it doesn't matter if the Euro has 1/3.

2. The Euros have to worry about keeping the Euro together, meaning that without huge structural deficit changes the currency union is unviable, especially considering that the ECB can't control jobs at the country level. Their task is immensely more complex than the Fed.

3. China was "immune" because they could throw unlimited amounts of money and tell the economy to "GO GO GO GO GO GO GO GO". That's how command economies work. Have you seen the ghost cities? When 70% of your GDP is just from construction (much smaller for the US which is less than 10%), and the demand for that construction isn't there, you have problems.


PCS - Do you just look at something and not think about it? I really wonder how much thought you put into this stuff.

The ghost cities are very interesting. A former roommate of mine works in Beijing now, and when he was home for the holidays he was talking about how China is ripe for a crash, there's just huge piles of complete empty buildings, and they just keep building more.