gruven
Member
- Jan 6, 2003
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Sorry for not answering sooner.
Actually, you would have to do an "emerge -e system && emerge -e system" to first optimize your toolchain, then the second time would be to recompile the toolchain with the optimized toolchain. Some people do an "emerge depclean" after it just to make sure any unneeded packages are removed.
I am no expert, I am just going on experience and what I have read.
And IMO, Portage is just about as easy as it gets. Yes, you have to compile from source, but you can include or exclude certain things that you want/don't want. Plus, you don't have to worry about different repositories.
Nothinman
Elite Member
- Sep 14, 2001
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Until you remove a package with 'emerge -C' only to realize that portage doesn't do any dependency checking on removal and you just broke half of your system.
And you don't have to worry about any different repositories with Debian either since virtually everything is packaged in Debian already. I have used a couple of non-official repositories but usually I find that I don't really need them. The only one that I keep around consistently is the one hosted by Marillat for mplayer and since he's a DD it's only semi-unofficial.
As for the USE flags, yes there will be some combiation that you'll be able to come up with that won't be possible with a binary distribution. But in the end it's irrelevant. The only thing you really save is some disk space and that's negated by the huge amount of development libraries and tools you need to keep installed on Gentoo. And most Debian packages are split up so that you only install the part that you want, the vlc package is a good example:
I don't like Gentoo very much. I feel like I'm going to break the damn thing every time I think about upgrading a package on the server I admin.
gruven
Member
- Jan 6, 2003
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Gentoo does take some getting used to, but an "emerge -C packagename" isn't that bad. You just do an "emerge -pv depclean" afterwards to see what it wants to remove, and then "emerge depclean" do remove any unwanted packages that the one you removed depended on.
I have been using Gentoo for about a year, and I haven't run into anything I couldn't fix yet. I run completely ~x86 (unstable, well, unstable ebuilds, not unstable packages).
I do agree though, if you don't enjoy using a source based distro, Debian is the way to go. If I were to use a binary distro, it would be Debian.
It is the same with most distros though, once you learn the directory structure and the package management that each one uses, nothing is really that hard. I like the hands on feel with Gentoo and Debian. Gentoo takes a while to learn, but once you do, it is so easy it is like any other distro. I am still learning on Gentoo, but I just like it. Plus, the forums are a big plus no matter what distro you use.
bersl2, if you feel that uncomfortable upgrading a package on Gentoo, you can use the quickpkg tool in "gentoolkit" to make a backup of the program you are upgrading before you upgrade. Then, if the upgrade doesn't work, just mask the upgrade, and emerge the package you made to revert back without having to recompile. If the package you want to upgrade can be slotted, then there is no reason to package it, just switch back to the previous version and remove the other because if it is slotted, it will install both alongside each other.
In the end it comes down to personal preference and what you are comfortable with. I am comfortable with Gentoo, you are comfortable with Debian. They both do essentially the same thing. It just wouldn't be right without choice.
I have been using Gentoo for about a year, and I haven't run into anything I couldn't fix yet. I run completely ~x86 (unstable, well, unstable ebuilds, not unstable packages).
I do agree though, if you don't enjoy using a source based distro, Debian is the way to go. If I were to use a binary distro, it would be Debian.
It is the same with most distros though, once you learn the directory structure and the package management that each one uses, nothing is really that hard. I like the hands on feel with Gentoo and Debian. Gentoo takes a while to learn, but once you do, it is so easy it is like any other distro. I am still learning on Gentoo, but I just like it. Plus, the forums are a big plus no matter what distro you use.
bersl2, if you feel that uncomfortable upgrading a package on Gentoo, you can use the quickpkg tool in "gentoolkit" to make a backup of the program you are upgrading before you upgrade. Then, if the upgrade doesn't work, just mask the upgrade, and emerge the package you made to revert back without having to recompile. If the package you want to upgrade can be slotted, then there is no reason to package it, just switch back to the previous version and remove the other because if it is slotted, it will install both alongside each other.
In the end it comes down to personal preference and what you are comfortable with. I am comfortable with Gentoo, you are comfortable with Debian. They both do essentially the same thing. It just wouldn't be right without choice.
gruven
Member
- Jan 6, 2003
- 39
- 0
- 0
That is why you always do an "emerge -pv depclean" before you actually do it. -pv is pretend and verbose, so you can see what you are actually removing. If you don't want to remove a package, you add it to your world file.
Also, if something else depends on that package, then it won't remove it, if you have done it correctly. The problem is, most people don't do it correctly (they don't do an "emerge -uDN world" after they change use flags), so things will get broken.
The thing about gentoo is, that it gives you plenty of rope to hang yourself with. It doesn't pretend to be noob friendly. Most problems in the stable brance of Gentoo are user created, as with any distro. When you run depclean, it even gives you a warning in big red letters, and gives you a chance to back out. If you read the documentation you shouldn't have a problem, and pretty much everything is documented well in Gentoo.
Also, if something else depends on that package, then it won't remove it, if you have done it correctly. The problem is, most people don't do it correctly (they don't do an "emerge -uDN world" after they change use flags), so things will get broken.
The thing about gentoo is, that it gives you plenty of rope to hang yourself with. It doesn't pretend to be noob friendly. Most problems in the stable brance of Gentoo are user created, as with any distro. When you run depclean, it even gives you a warning in big red letters, and gives you a chance to back out. If you read the documentation you shouldn't have a problem, and pretty much everything is documented well in Gentoo.
DasFox
Diamond Member
- Sep 4, 2003
- 4,668
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No I'm not I have a lot of Unix/Linux experience, I can run any Disrtro out there. I just happened to use Slack at the moment because of the simplicity. Who knows my thoughts on other distros could change in the future as other versions come out, but for now I'm using it, before that I was playing with Gentoo 2005.
Every once and awhile I try them when new versions come out to see what changes and improvements have been made.
Anyone doing a disservice to themselves is the person who lacks experience, who are those people that just want to run Linux like the Windows OS and who don't want to take the time to learn anything, thinking they'll run it the same way, who typically end up with the most problems all the time when things go wrong and I'm far from that.
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