Generally curious question about military

[Proprioceptive]

You'd be AMAZED at how easy it is to push-button (promotion out of step). I entered as an E1 in February. In April I was an E2. At the end of June I was an E3. In July I was an E4. I separated out after 20 months, but had I stayed in another couple months I already had my points and rubber stamp to E5. While not many people go quite that crazy there were a lot of us that that received 1-2 promotions just in boot camp and our first school.

Field promotions and commissions are another method, and what the OP was speculating on. One downside to those is that they're often rescinded at the end of the operation.

Something for the OP to consider: never confuse rank with authority. You can have ENORMOUS responsibility and authority at a relatively low rank, and you can hold a respectfully high rank having never really been in charge of anything, or doing much that was special.

Wow, that is pretty quick. Honestly, I haven't been around many who had that happen. Nobody I knew at BCT received any kind of promotion and the soldiers in my company have been held pretty strictly to "time in grade" requirements. Hell, I've been a PFC since I enlisted (Summery '07) but that's mostly because my admin guys are idiots and I've had OCS in the mix as well.

 

[Dr. Detroit]

Advancing in rank for enlisted guys is based more on work, for officer's it's all political.

From my experience with the US Army, O1 - O4 are pretty easy to obtain and are based more on time & merit. Good luck getting past O4 without pulling some political strings.

Nice thing is you can retire an O4.

 

[Alone]

It blows my mind when I think of how promotions and medals are just handed out in the US military. Maybe I just don't understand, but it seems like it takes a lot of the pride and recognition out of it.

 

[Proprioceptive]

From my experience with the US Army, O1 - O4 are pretty easy to obtain and are based more on time & merit. Good luck getting past O4 without pulling some political strings.

Nice thing is you can retire an O4.

This couldn't be more true. Most of my officer friends and acquaintances would attest to this. When you want to become a Colonel or Lt Colonel, you better know some people up high. It tends to be a little easier on the National Guard side, from what I've seen, though.

 

[Proprioceptive]

It blows my mind when I think of how promotions and medals are just handed out in the US military. Maybe I just don't understand, but it seems like it takes a lot of the pride and recognition out of it.

EVERY unit is different. You will find units who take tremendous pride in their advancements and others that don't care and hand them out like candy. It's unfortunate, but a fact.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Thank you all for very helpful and expert insight.

I'm surprised the thread didn't troll out this long.

[edit] One LAST question:
How do special bureaucracies work? FBI/CIA/etc. I reckon you go to same military schools (i.e. West Point) then just apply for those branches instead of Army/Navy/etc?

I don't think you can just enlist to be in FBI.

No, government employment is a civil service job, totally separate from the military. They have training schools, but they're not military. You can apply for them directly, though most are now requiring degrees or special training.

http://www.fbi.gov/employment/employ.htm

About the only crossover is that one looks good for the other. You often get points for the application process for civil service if you have military on your record, and I imagine a service agent would get some special considerations at promotion time in the military.

 

[Alone]

EVERY unit is different. You will find units who take tremendous pride in their advancements and others that don't care and hand them out like candy. It's unfortunate, but a fact.

In Canada, you're pretty much only getting a medal if you deploy or serve 12 years. And there's no way in hell to get any sort of promotions in boot camp, let alone any ribbons or other recognition of that sort (though there are trophys, but they don't go on your records).

Maybe we're just lame. Fuck it.

 

[Proprioceptive]

In Canada, you're pretty much only getting a medal if you deploy or serve 12 years. And there's no way in hell to get any sort of promotions in boot camp, let alone any ribbons or other recognition of that sort (though there are trophys, but they don't go on your records).

Maybe we're just lame. Fuck it.

It's Canada... it's unavoidable

But no, I know a few guys in the Canadian special forces, and they're seriously badass. I have a lot of respect for Canadian soldiers. They've been deployed everywhere.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Wow, that is pretty quick. Honestly, I haven't been around many who had that happen. Nobody I knew at BCT received any kind of promotion and the soldiers in my company have been held pretty strictly to "time in grade" requirements. Hell, I've been a PFC since I enlisted (Summery '07) but that's mostly because my admin guys are idiots and I've had OCS in the mix as well.

I'm not saying it was free candy, just that it's doable if you have some brains/ability. Score perfect (or at least the highest) on every test in your school, you'll likely get some promotion attention. Exhibit exceptional communication and leadership skills, get more attention. Cross-rate yourself a bunch of times, there you go again. Network with dedication to accomplishment, people will take notice. Of course, what really helps the most is getting yourself attached to some flag officers early so that they're the ones that sign your evals.

 

[Proprioceptive]

I'm not saying it was free candy, just that it's doable if you have some brains/ability. Score perfect (or at least the highest) on every test in your school, you'll likely get some promotion attention. Exhibit exceptional communication and leadership skills, get more attention. Cross-rate yourself a bunch of times, there you go again. Network with dedication to accomplishment, people will take notice. Of course, what really helps the most is getting yourself attached to some flag officers early so that they're the ones that sign your evals.

Haha... sorry, I didn't mean to make your promotions sound like a hand out. I just know some quick promotions I've seen definitely were handouts. I totally agree that hard work reaps its benefits. I, however, haven't seen much of anything even though I graduated top of my class at AIT, graduated BCT with iron man and 39/40 on the range, constantly take leadership positions at drills, blah blah blah... but whatever. I was only enlisted for 2 years before I decided to hit up OCS. I just hope my good military record will benefit my officer promotions.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Haha... sorry, I didn't mean to make your promotions sound like a hand out. I just know some quick promotions I've seen definitely were handouts. I totally agree that hard work reaps its benefits. I, however, haven't seen much of anything even though I graduated top of my class at AIT, graduated BCT with iron man and 39/40 on the range, constantly take leadership positions at drills, blah blah blah... but whatever. I was only enlisted for 2 years before I decided to hit up OCS. I just hope my good military record will benefit my officer promotions.

Oh not at all...they were totally hand outs. Only mitigating factor is that I carefully researched how to get them and then specifically exploited the system to obtain them.

If the available billets out of school hadn't included a handful of flag staff positions I never would have made the last two promotions, so it had an element of luck as well.

 

[Proprioceptive]

Oh not at all...they were totally hand outs. Only mitigating factor is that I carefully researched how to get them and then specifically exploited the system to obtain them.

:thumbsup:

 

[MarkXIX]

I got a Direct Commission from being a Staff Sergeant with little more than my stellar performance and a packet of paperwork that I turned in. Skipped all the bullshit associated with OCS, etc.

Now I'm the commander of an MP Company! Look at me now!

 

[JEDI]

You can enlist as an E-4 (Specialist) if you already have a bachelor's degree

wait.. i thought bachelor's degree automatically gets you 2nd lieutenant? (ie: officier?)

 

[Dr. Detroit]

wait.. i thought bachelor's degree automatically gets you 2nd lieutenant? (ie: officier?)

Oh hell no!

You must attend military college courses and go through officer training to become an officer. Lots of fresh college graduates with shitty GPA's enlist because they can not find jobs and the Armed Services will pay off like $40K+ in you student loans for enlisting.

 

[Dr. Detroit]

It blows my mind when I think of how promotions and medals are just handed out in the US military. Maybe I just don't understand, but it seems like it takes a lot of the pride and recognition out of it.

Promotions in specific units often happen because each job specific MOS often have more promotion spots allocated to it. If a MOS has the ability to promote they do. Its based on your job specific MOS not the people pushing paper.

Awards like AAM's are handed out routinely as atta boys. If you have good writing skills you can really push the awards.

 

[brblx]

wait.. i thought bachelor's degree automatically gets you 2nd lieutenant? (ie: officier?)

you're thinking of ROTC. go to college, complete your bachelors with four years of ROTC, and i believe you can enlist as a butterbar.

that's part of the reason 2LT's are so often disrespected- many people assume you're just a college educated private (where some 2LT's may have spent long amounts of time enlisted).

us military rank is weird in that you may have a sergeant major with twenty years of service that has to salute someone who just finished their initial training.

edit: also, i think someone briefly mentioned it, but MOS is HUGE in determining how fast you are promoted. i've always generally understood that combat MOS's (infantry, combat engineer, scout, tanker, ect) always move faster.

 

[Key West]

us military rank is weird in that you may have a sergeant major with twenty years of service that has to salute someone who just finished their initial training.

I guess that's similar to a 20-year factory worker reporting to a college-educated manager. Can't blame the kid for going to school.

 

[brblx]

sort of, but more complicated, as a lieutenant typically leads a platoon (~40 men), whereas a high ranking enlisted man may serve under a major or colonel in command of a much larger group.

 

[Sea Moose]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_military_ranks

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

In the air force you can't really get past e6 without the ccaf (community college of the air force) degree, but it's a joke to get. I think for e8 and e9; it helps a lot to have degrees since that's when they start giving promotions in a less formal manner (based on review boards instead of a points system like e7 and below).

 

[Q]

us military rank is weird in that you may have a sergeant major with twenty years of service that has to salute someone who just finished their initial training.

I know this is an odd question, but what would happen if you told the guy not to salute you (believing that it's stupid that he 'has' to, and that he should have the more respect)?

 

[Alone]

I know this is an odd question, but what would happen if you told the guy not to salute you (believing that it's stupid that he 'has' to, and that he should have the more respect)?

You're saluting the rank, the appointment, and not the person. If someone asked that, well, I'm not really sure what would happen. But the other would salute regardless.

 

[jhu]

you're thinking of ROTC. go to college, complete your bachelors with four years of ROTC, and i believe you can enlist as a butterbar.

that's part of the reason 2LT's are so often disrespected- many people assume you're just a college educated private (where some 2LT's may have spent long amounts of time enlisted).

us military rank is weird in that you may have a sergeant major with twenty years of service that has to salute someone who just finished their initial training.

edit: also, i think someone briefly mentioned it, but MOS is HUGE in determining how fast you are promoted. i've always generally understood that combat MOS's (infantry, combat engineer, scout, tanker, ect) always move faster.

It's like a seasoned nurse taking orders from an intern.

 

[chusteczka]

It's like an NFL linebacker getting bent over by an ATOT nerd.