General Zinni sums it up nicely

[StormRider]

General Zinni

 

[conjur]

Already here:

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=52&threadid=1303919&highlight_key=y&keyword1=chal

But, like LDir said, this deserves its own thread.

 

[chess9]

I'm not sure he's got it quite right. I don't think the current situation is salvageable under any rational and believable scenario. The conventional thinking that by staying there we are somehow going to make the lives of Iraqis better in the long run is nonsense. Furthermore, how does doing so help American lives?

No, I'm now in favor of withdrawal and quickly. After June 30 we should pull out 25,000 troops a month and just back them out through Kuwait. If the U.N. wants to come in and help stabilize the country, then great. But these people don't want us there, they don't seem to appreciate what we've done, and they are going to keep killing our soldiers. Why? Why should our boys die in this war?

-Robert

 

[Phokus]

Excellent article.

 

[Harvey]

This is serious stuff from a seriously credible source. For the link impared:

Gen. Zinni: 'They've Screwed Up'

(CBS) Accusing top Pentagon officials of "dereliction of duty," retired Marine Gen. Anthony Zinni says staying the course in Iraq isn't a reasonable option.

"The course is headed over Niagara Falls. I think it's time to change course a little bit or at least hold somebody responsible for putting you on this course," he tells CBS News Correspondent Steve Kroft in an interview to be broadcast on 60 Minutes, Sunday, May 23, at 7 p.m. ET/PT.

The current situation in Iraq was destined to happen, says Zinni, because planning for the war and its aftermath has been flawed all along.

"There has been poor strategic thinking in this...poor operational planning and execution on the ground," says Zinni, who served as commander-in-chief of the U.S. Central Command from 1997 to 2000.

Zinni blames the poor planning on the civilian policymakers in the administration, known as neo-conservatives, who saw the invasion as a way to stabilize the region and support Israel. He believes these people, who include Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz and Douglas Feith, the undersecretary of defense, have hijacked U.S. foreign policy.

"They promoted it and pushed [the war]... even to the point of creating their own intelligence to match their needs. Then they should bear the responsibility," Zinni tells Kroft.

In his upcoming book, "Battle Ready," written with Tom Clancy, Zinni writes of the poor planning in harsh terms. "In the lead-up to the Iraq war and its later conduct, I saw, at minimum, true dereliction, negligence and irresponsibility; at worst, lying, incompetence and corruption," he writes.

Zinni explains to Kroft, "I think there was dereliction in insufficient forces being put on the ground and [in not] fully understanding the military dimensions of the plan."

He still believes the situation is salvageable if the United States can communicate more effectively with the Iraqi people and demonstrate a better image to them.

The enlistment of the U.N. and other countries to participate in the mission is also crucial, he says. Without these things, says Zinni, "We are going to be looking for quick exits. I don't believe we're there now, and I wouldn't want to see us fail here."

Also central to success in Iraq is more troops, from the United States and especially other countries, to control violence and patrol borders, he says.

Zinni feels that undertaking the war with the minimum of troops paved the way for the security problems the U.S. faces there now, the violence Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld recently admitted he hadn't anticipated.

"He should not have been surprised," says Zinni. "There were a number of people who before we even engaged in this conflict felt strongly that we underestimated...the scope of the problems we would have in [Iraq]."

The fact that no one in the administration has paid for the blunder irks Zinni. "But regardless of whose responsibility [it is]...it should be evident to everybody that they've screwed up, and whose heads are rolling on this?"

© MMIV, CBS Worldwide Inc. All Rights Reserved.

 

[HamSupLo]

that Gen. Zinni, must be a damn democrat to want to criticize the war

 

[Format C:]

Wow, another book peddler with an agenda on 60 minutes. I am so shocked.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Format C:
Wow, another book peddler with an agenda on 60 minutes. I am so shocked.

LOL, the standard Neocon reply about anyone of credibility who criticises the Dub and his minions!!

 

[Format C:]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Format C:
Wow, another book peddler with an agenda on 60 minutes. I am so shocked.

LOL, the standard Neocon reply about anyone of credibility who criticises the Dub and his minions!!

Yes, we should all have great confidence in the assertions of a RETIRED officer. I'm quite certain he's still right in that old loop.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Format C:

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Format C:
Wow, another book peddler with an agenda on 60 minutes. I am so shocked.

LOL, the standard Neocon reply about anyone of credibility who criticises the Dub and his minions!!

Yes, we should all have great confidence in the assertions of a RETIRED officer. I'm quite certain he's still right in that old loop.

More so than a bunch of Chickenhawks who have never commanded an Army, let alone served in one.

 

[Format C:]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Format C:

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Format C:
Wow, another book peddler with an agenda on 60 minutes. I am so shocked.

LOL, the standard Neocon reply about anyone of credibility who criticises the Dub and his minions!!

Yes, we should all have great confidence in the assertions of a RETIRED officer. I'm quite certain he's still right in that old loop.

More so than a bunch of Chickenhawks who have never commanded an Army, let alone served in one.

Have you worked out the details of the release date and 60 Minutes exclusive interview for your bombshell book yet?

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Format C:

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Format C:

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Format C:
Wow, another book peddler with an agenda on 60 minutes. I am so shocked.

LOL, the standard Neocon reply about anyone of credibility who criticises the Dub and his minions!!

Yes, we should all have great confidence in the assertions of a RETIRED officer. I'm quite certain he's still right in that old loop.

More so than a bunch of Chickenhawks who have never commanded an Army, let alone served in one.

Have you worked out the details of the release date and 60 Minutes exclusive interview for your bombshell book yet?

No, I'm still working on getting your Psychiatrist to release your Medical Records.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: Format C:

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Format C:
Wow, another book peddler with an agenda on 60 minutes. I am so shocked.

LOL, the standard Neocon reply about anyone of credibility who criticises the Dub and his minions!!

Yes, we should all have great confidence in the assertions of a RETIRED officer. I'm quite certain he's still right in that old loop.

Officers in service can't say what they think. They don't have that freedom. I know many privately think this is screwed.

Zinni does have credibility. More than the NeoCons if you look at their records. What the hell does his being retired have to do with that? He doesn't need a friggin roadmap to see what is going on, and if anyone thinks a retired general of his stature doesn't have more inside info than you or I, then they are hopelessly naive.

For heavens sake, Bill Kristol says Bush screw the pooch on this one and he is THE NeoCon.

 

[Format C:]

Yes, like all those credible retired officers the networks had on every night during the invasion with their constant doom and gloom of mass casualties and assured failure. Its not their inside track that leads to their opinions but rather their glaringly obvious political ideologies. They don't want the effort to succeed because they don't want Bush to succeed. End of story.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: Format C:
Yes, like all those credible retired officers the networks had on every night during the invasion with their constant doom and gloom of mass casualties and assured failure. Its not their inside track that leads to their opinions but rather their glaringly obvious political ideologies. They don't want the effort to succeed because they don't want Bush to succeed. End of story.

What about Kristol?

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith

Originally posted by: Format C:
Yes, like all those credible retired officers the networks had on every night during the invasion with their constant doom and gloom of mass casualties and assured failure. Its not their inside track that leads to their opinions but rather their glaringly obvious political ideologies. They don't want the effort to succeed because they don't want Bush to succeed. End of story.

What about Kristol?

And Robert Kagan? He's a key member of the PNAC and he's criticizing Bush now, too.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith

Originally posted by: Format C:
Yes, like all those credible retired officers the networks had on every night during the invasion with their constant doom and gloom of mass casualties and assured failure. Its not their inside track that leads to their opinions but rather their glaringly obvious political ideologies. They don't want the effort to succeed because they don't want Bush to succeed. End of story.

What about Kristol?

And Robert Kagan? He's a key member of the PNAC and he's criticizing Bush now, too.

[Bush Apologists] They too must have upcoming book deals [/Bush Apologists]

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith

Originally posted by: Format C:
Yes, like all those credible retired officers the networks had on every night during the invasion with their constant doom and gloom of mass casualties and assured failure. Its not their inside track that leads to their opinions but rather their glaringly obvious political ideologies. They don't want the effort to succeed because they don't want Bush to succeed. End of story.

What about Kristol?

And Robert Kagan? He's a key member of the PNAC and he's criticizing Bush now, too.

[Bush Apologists] They too must have upcoming book deals [/Bush Apologists]

Well, they largely ignored the thread I created about 10 days ago. I'll post some key portions here.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A13027-2004May9.html

By Dana Milbank and Jonathan Weisman
Washington Post Staff Writers

Monday, May 10, 2004; Page A01

...Last Tuesday, columnist George F. Will sharply criticized the administration's Iraq policy, writing: "This administration cannot be trusted to govern if it cannot be counted on to think and, having thought, to have second thoughts." Two days earlier, Robert Kagan, a neoconservative supporter of the Iraq war, wrote: "All but the most blindly devoted Bush supporters can see that Bush administration officials have no clue about what to do in Iraq tomorrow, much less a month from now."

Conservative columnist George Will:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A54900-2004Apr29.html

By George F. Will
Friday, April 30, 2004; Page A29

...military commanders in Iraq face agonizing choices entailed by those antiseptic political locutions "regime change" and "nation building." The commander in chief seems not to fathom the depth of the difficulties when he describes the insurgent cleric Moqtada Sadr as a person who will not "allow democracy to flourish." Allow? If some bad people would just behave, democracy would sprout like tulips?

 

[chess9]

At least we know that intelligence and wit have not been completely eviscerated among conservatives by the Bush Spin Machine. Nice post, Conjur.

-Robert

 

[conjur]

:beer:

 

[arsbanned]

Staaaaaaayyyyyyyy the course...Staaaaaaayyyyyyyy the course...Staaaaaaayyyyyyyy the course....:disgust:

 

[Zephyr106]

General Zinni is an anti-semite because he used the "NC" word. How dare a retired military officer question the military planning of the Pentagon.

Zephyr

 

[conjur]

Ya know what's interesting? We don't really hear from people really applauding the administration's handling of Iraq and going into a positive analysis of the war on Iraq.

Wonder why?

 

[dmcowen674]

From Dave Winer:

He calls for the resignation of the civilians in the Pentagon, all the way up to Rumsfeld. I wonder why he stops there. The President is the one who led us to this disastrous war. At this point I wonder how any American can feel this war was worth it. Every justification we've heard was a lie.

From NPR:

8-23-2002 General Zinni speech before the War in Iraq

We could end up with collateral damage.

You could inherit the country of Iraq, if you're willing to do it -- if our economy is so great that you're willing to put billions of dollars into reforming Iraq. If you want to put soldiers that are already stretched so thin all around the world and add them into a security force there forever, like we see in places like the Sinai.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The NeoCons have destroyed so much of this Country in such a short time, incredible.

I wonder once they are gone could we get much of it back?

I wonder if we are not able to knock of this pedestal that Rush, Hannity, the Bush Admin, The NeoCons in power and CAD & Co are on at all and the Country goes down in the History books as another Germany/Roman Empire.

Beyond Sad, beyond words.

 

[conjur]

Nice find there, Dave.