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General VR discussion thread

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Subyman

Moderator <br> VC&G Forum
Mar 18, 2005
7,876
32
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I doubt VR will ever compare to a real HT setup. There is more to sound than pumping waves directly into your ears. You don't "feel" sound in your chest with headphones.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
46,024
3,125
126
HTC's Vive will cost $799, ship in early April:

http://www.engadget.com/2016/02/21/htc-vive-price-release/

* Redesigned ergonomics to make it more comfortable to wear
* $799
* Pre-orders begin February 29th
* Orders will start shipping early April
* Includes two wireless controllers with haptic feedback & dual-stage triggers
* Includes front-facing camera built into the headset
* Includes two Lighthouse room-scale trackers
* Includes two games (Job Simulator: The 2050 Archives by Owlchemy Labs and Fantastic Contraption by Northway Games)
* New feature: Vive Phone Services, which lets you send and receive calls, text messages, and check on your calendar without taking off the VR headset

Dang, $200 more than the Oculus...granted, it comes with a pair of controllers, a pair of Lighthouse room-scale sensors, and a front-facing camera, but still, $800 - ouch!

 

Sabrewings

Golden Member
Jun 27, 2015
1,942
35
51
I'm in. I'll be pre-ordering this next week. A proper VR device and not just a chair simulator.
 

Subyman

Moderator <br> VC&G Forum
Mar 18, 2005
7,876
32
86
I'll take the chair simulator. I kind of have room for the light sensors, but I don't want to change my room around to accommodate them. I'll wait to see how that stuff works out. I play games to relax and to chat with friends, I'm not quite sure how walking around a room will make that better.

VR by itself is a huge leap. Add motion controllers AND walking around, and I think it is too much, too soon for developers to figure out.
 

BSim500

Golden Member
Jun 5, 2013
1,480
214
106
VR by itself is a huge leap. Add motion controllers AND walking around, and I think it is too much, too soon for developers to figure out.
I think they're still figuring out ergonomics too. Eg, why has there been a rise of "living room PC's" and controllers on PC? Because people like to just flop out on the couch and say they find merely sitting up in a chair at a desk with a mouse is too much effort... :D
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,013
647
126
I'm tempted to pre-order it as well. $800 is pretty much what I was expecting the price to be since I used the Rift's headset-only $600 price tag as the base and tacked on $60 for each controller and $40 for each Lighthouse unit.

What I found interesting is that one of my coworkers surprised me by actually asking about the Vive. She was rather interested in the idea of being able to move around rather than having to be seated.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,793
826
126
The Vive's 'moving around' isn't going to be practical in most cases. And while the controllers are wireless it doesn't seem that the headset is? Or am I missing that....because if it isn't wireless...moving around will be pretty limited.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
46,024
3,125
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What I found interesting is that one of my coworkers surprised me by actually asking about the Vive. She was rather interested in the idea of being able to move around rather than having to be seated.
Nearly everyone who used my Gear VR wanted to get up & walk around. Natural instinct. I think HTC is nailing it on the head here.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
46,024
3,125
126
The Vive's 'moving around' isn't going to be practical in most cases. And while the controllers are wireless it doesn't seem that the headset is? Or am I missing that....because if it isn't wireless...moving around will be pretty limited.
If you have 5 minutes, watch this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NixHENChoQ4

In the case of Hover Junkers, they adapt the spaceship platform to your room size. Yes, the headset is wired, which is a limitation, but you can get a long cable for power & data. There is a company working on high-speed wireless (remember, this is a combined 2160x1200 resolution with 110-degree FOV @ 90hz, so that'd be pushing an awful lot of data through the air), but you also have to factor in batteries & weight, so I don't imagine that we'll see that for another couple of years. You either get a high-powered desktop-driven setup like the Rift or Vive, or you go wireless with a Gear VR.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
46,024
3,125
126
I'll take the chair simulator. I kind of have room for the light sensors, but I don't want to change my room around to accommodate them. I'll wait to see how that stuff works out. I play games to relax and to chat with friends, I'm not quite sure how walking around a room will make that better.

VR by itself is a huge leap. Add motion controllers AND walking around, and I think it is too much, too soon for developers to figure out.
To me, the omni treadmills like the Virtuix makes more sense. But there's so much development going on, we're just going to have to see what sticks over time. My VR exercise bike shows up in a couple of months & I'm excited to do fitness in VR, because I think it will distract me from the actual work of doing cardio haha.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,013
647
126
If you have 5 minutes, watch this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NixHENChoQ4

In the case of Hover Junkers, they adapt the spaceship platform to your room size. Yes, the headset is wired, which is a limitation, but you can get a long cable for power & data. There is a company working on high-speed wireless (remember, this is a combined 2160x1200 resolution with 110-degree FOV @ 90hz, so that'd be pushing an awful lot of data through the air), but you also have to factor in batteries & weight, so I don't imagine that we'll see that for another couple of years. You either get a high-powered desktop-driven setup like the Rift or Vive, or you go wireless with a Gear VR.
To note, FOV only affects rendering power and has no effect on transmission bandwidth requirements.

I'd probably get around the whole cable problem by having them strung up on a mount on the ceiling, which would allow them to swivel around as I move... or something similar to that. The only thing that worries me about that method is that I would have to be careful when it comes to cable length. I saw that the Vive supposedly uses HDMI 1.3, which would be fine as long as you use higher quality cables. However, I'm not so sure about the USB 3 that it supposedly has. A good example of how finicky USB 3 can be is with Microsoft's Kinect 2. AV enthusiasts have gone to great costs just to get the Kinect 2 to work in long-distance setups -- it literally costs about $200 for an optic cable just to handle a distance greater than about 15 feet.

Now, that may or may not be a problem depending on the setup, but it's worth considering. Although, there are also the laptop backpacks that companies were showing off at CES. With those, there's no worries about wires as you're carrying everything.
 

DarkKnightDude

Senior member
Mar 10, 2011
981
44
91


Also, there's a VR benchmark on steam if you want to check if your PC can handle it.

Try this link: steam://run/323910
Copy that into your browser and open it. If not, send it to a friend in steam and it should be clickable there.


For example:
 

xantub

Senior member
Feb 12, 2014
717
1
46
As a gamer I'm more interested in the Rift (i.e. seated experience). The room experience has a more 'Wow' factor, something to show your house guests to impress them for a few minutes, but not for playing games seriously, where I usually go for 2-4 hour sessions (or longer, in the case of MMOs).
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
13,372
3,059
136
As a gamer I'm more interested in the Rift (i.e. seated experience). The room experience has a more 'Wow' factor, something to show your house guests to impress them for a few minutes, but not for playing games seriously, where I usually go for 2-4 hour sessions (or longer, in the case of MMOs).
I agree. I don't think I, or society, is ready for the full on walk around VR experience. For now lets get people hooked on the idea of the immersive experience that can be had from wrap-around video, and get the headsets cheaper and into the hands of more people. Once they are nearly ubiquitous it will be time to advance them to the next stage. Overreaching now could kill the whole VR notion for another generation.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,793
826
126
I ran the Steam VR test a few times and it says mine should handle it no problem. I do not know how 'general' this test is though and why is it that applications STILL don't know how to check if a CPU is overclocked?

2500k @ 4.2 - 8GB - 290x
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,013
647
126
I'm not worried about my desktop being able to handle VR, but I was curious how my laptop would do. It's certainly no slouch with the i7-4710HQ and a GTX 980M, which I recall barely meeting Oculus's recommended specifications, but wow... it was BAD. It only scored a "Medium" with a 3.6 rating in the benchmark. Obviously, the GPU was the bottleneck, but until Pascal comes out, there won't be an upgrade avenue for my laptop. MSI has promised two generations of upgrades, but since I bought it prior to G-Sync being available, I don't even think it's worth spending the premium as the GPU upgrades are around $800.

EDIT:

To add, I just ran it on my desktop (i7-6700k + GTX 980 Ti (factory overclocked model)), and it got a 10.7.
 
Last edited:

QuantumPion

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2005
6,010
1
76
I think they're still figuring out ergonomics too. Eg, why has there been a rise of "living room PC's" and controllers on PC? Because people like to just flop out on the couch and say they find merely sitting up in a chair at a desk with a mouse is too much effort... :D
I think the rise of living room PC's and PC controllers is due to console gamers wanting console-style games for cheap steam sale prices.
 

QuantumPion

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2005
6,010
1
76
Also regarding Rift vs Vive - you guys know the Rift can do standing/moving around too! The Vive may be better at full scale room movement. Which is nice for trade shows and demos. But most people are limited to a small room at home, which the rift can do just fine. Also the rift will be getting motion controllers and add-on tracking sensors in the future. The rift seems better to me for now, it is lighter, more ergonomic, and has better game support out the door. But we'll see once both are out how things play out.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
13,372
3,059
136
I think the rise of living room PC's and PC controllers is due to console gamers wanting console-style games for cheap steam sale prices.
Maybe some, but I think that the time that we had a ubiquitous home computer is just here. The reason we don't have one is because MPAA, RIAA et all have fought to keep the technology that would make it all work easy from coming together.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
46,024
3,125
126
I'm not worried about my desktop being able to handle VR, but I was curious how my laptop would do. It's certainly no slouch with the i7-4710HQ and a GTX 980M, which I recall barely meeting Oculus's recommended specifications, but wow... it was BAD. It only scored a "Medium" with a 3.6 rating in the benchmark. Obviously, the GPU was the bottleneck, but until Pascal comes out, there won't be an upgrade avenue for my laptop. MSI has promised two generations of upgrades, but since I bought it prior to G-Sync being available, I don't even think it's worth spending the premium as the GPU upgrades are around $800.

EDIT:

To add, I just ran it on my desktop (i7-6700k + GTX 980 Ti (factory overclocked model)), and it got a 10.7.
Supposedly the GP100 is supposed to be out in June. If that's the case, I'll leave my Oculus in the box for a month & wait on my PC build. A 16GB Pascal GPU should have a pretty dang long shelf life. Hoping they give some ship dates soon so we know one way or the other...
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
46,024
3,125
126
Also regarding Rift vs Vive - you guys know the Rift can do standing/moving around too! The Vive may be better at full scale room movement. Which is nice for trade shows and demos. But most people are limited to a small room at home, which the rift can do just fine. Also the rift will be getting motion controllers and add-on tracking sensors in the future. The rift seems better to me for now, it is lighter, more ergonomic, and has better game support out the door. But we'll see once both are out how things play out.
Despite the Vive being technically better, I think the Oculus will win (1) for the lower initial price, and (2) for having more games supported. I don't remember the exact numbers, but Oculus has already shipped like 130k dev units out, whereas Vive had like 15k. So developers have had years to develop stuff & get prepped for the official release. I'm sure there will be dual compatibility & whatnot down the road, but out of the gate, I'm thinking the Oculus is going to have a pretty good head start.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,013
647
126
Supposedly the GP100 is supposed to be out in June. If that's the case, I'll leave my Oculus in the box for a month & wait on my PC build. A 16GB Pascal GPU should have a pretty dang long shelf life. Hoping they give some ship dates soon so we know one way or the other...
I usually consider upgrading if the benefit is high enough. I usually look for about a ~40% upgrade, and I'd like to be able to at least sell my old card to help offset the costs. The Pascal rumors are saying that it's nearly twice as powerful. I'm always a bit wary of rumors, but we are getting a newer process (less power = less heat) and we've seen decent gains even at the same process node. So, there's certainly a chance that Big Pascal (GP100) could be quite a monster.

We can only hope! ():)

Despite the Vive being technically better, I think the Oculus will win (1) for the lower initial price, and (2) for having more games supported. I don't remember the exact numbers, but Oculus has already shipped like 130k dev units out, whereas Vive had like 15k. So developers have had years to develop stuff & get prepped for the official release. I'm sure there will be dual compatibility & whatnot down the road, but out of the gate, I'm thinking the Oculus is going to have a pretty good head start.
I would imagine that most VR developers would try to make their games work on either headset for a good install base if possible. So, if a game is designed for sitdown play, then there's no reason why it wouldn't work on either headset as just because the Vive has tracking doesn't mean that you need to use it.
 

sxr7171

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2002
5,079
40
91
I'm not worried about my desktop being able to handle VR, but I was curious how my laptop would do. It's certainly no slouch with the i7-4710HQ and a GTX 980M, which I recall barely meeting Oculus's recommended specifications, but wow... it was BAD. It only scored a "Medium" with a 3.6 rating in the benchmark. Obviously, the GPU was the bottleneck, but until Pascal comes out, there won't be an upgrade avenue for my laptop. MSI has promised two generations of upgrades, but since I bought it prior to G-Sync being available, I don't even think it's worth spending the premium as the GPU upgrades are around $800.

EDIT:

To add, I just ran it on my desktop (i7-6700k + GTX 980 Ti (factory overclocked model)), and it got a 10.7.
Not worth it. You're better off getting a new laptop with external GPU support. That's the future of laptop gaming.
 

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