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General Motors to be bought by Nissan/Renault?

techs

techs

Lifer
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060630/ap_on_bi_ge/tracinda_gm_alliance

WASHINGTON - Kirk Kerkorian, the billionaire mogul and major shareholder in General Motors Corp., said Friday that automakers Renault SA and Nissan Motor Co. are interested in purchasing a significant stake in GM and including the Detroit automaker in their alliance.
Kerkorian's investment company, Tracinda Corp., told GM Chairman and CEO Rick Wagoner in a letter that Renault and Nissan are receptive to the idea of including General Motors in their partnership and purchasing "a significant minority interest" in the automaker.

Shares of GM soared $2.45, or 8.9 percent, to close at $29.89 on the New York Stock Exchange.


a significant minority interest
Yeah, like Chrysler and Mercedes were merging. Only it turns out Mercedes was buying Chrysler.

What a sad day for America.
 
Originally posted by: conjur
GM hasn't made decent vehicle in decades. Should have happened sooner.
Click to expand...

Sales don't aree with your statement. For example when the GM and Chevy half ton truck numbers are combined they sell 1.8M making it the most popular vehicle in the US maybe the world.

I'd take a Yukon or Denali over any other SUV too.

Real Americans drive trucks but there are lots of good GM cars too like the GTO, Solstice, STS, Deville, Corvette and so on.

 
Sales <> good quality or good design


AOL has a large number of users.
American Idol pulls in huge ratings.
McDonalds has massive revenues.
 
Originally posted by: conjur
Sales <> good quality or good design


AOL has a large number of users.
American Idol pulls in huge ratings.
McDonalds has massive revenues.
Click to expand...

What do you drive?

And I'd normally agree with you but we're talking work trucks here.. people who use and abuse them day in and day out and keep on buying them so they must think the quality is there or they would'nt.
 
Originally posted by: conjur
GM hasn't made decent vehicle in decades. Should have happened sooner.
Click to expand...

What an incredibly ignorant and biased statement. Pontiac Solstace/Saturn Sky, the entire SAAB product line, all of the new Cadillacs, Pontiac Torrent, Pontiac Vibe, Corvette, and all the trucks and SUV's are all very nice vehicles. The next generation Camaro is an incredibly nice looking vehicle, too.

OP, the proposed deal is to allow for a significant minority interest in GM, not a controlling interest. It would be an alliance between GM, Renault, and Nissan. That would be an incredible team providing they could recognize and then leverage each other's strengths.
 
Originally posted by: UptheMiddle
Originally posted by: conjur
GM hasn't made decent vehicle in decades. Should have happened sooner.
Click to expand...

What an incredibly ignorant and biased statement. Pontiac Solstace/Saturn Sky, the entire SAAB product line, all of the new Cadillacs, Pontiac Torrent, Pontiac Vibe, Corvette, and all the trucks and SUV's are all very nice vehicles. The next generation Camaro is an incredibly nice looking vehicle, too.

OP, the proposed deal is to allow for a significant minority interest in GM, not a controlling interest. It would be an alliance between GM, Renault, and Nissan. That would be an incredible team providing they could recognize and then leverage each other's strengths.
Click to expand...

I have no idea how this "alliance" would play out in the real world. They will compete with each other, so what will they share? I would think a lot of technologies would be offlimits.
 
The automotive industry is incredibly complex. Even something as seemingly simple as logistics improvements can make significant efficiency improvements. So, technology may not be readily shared, but perhaps best operating principles could be.
 
Originally posted by: UptheMiddle
The automotive industry is incredibly complex. Even something as seemingly simple as logistics improvements can make significant efficiency improvements. So, technology may not be readily shared, but perhaps best operating principles could be.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but I if it includes an upgrade to that 4-speed auto GM insists on using in just about every vehicle, I won't complain 😉
 
Originally posted by: UptheMiddle
Originally posted by: conjur
GM hasn't made decent vehicle in decades. Should have happened sooner.
Click to expand...

What an incredibly ignorant and biased statement. Pontiac Solstace/Saturn Sky, the entire SAAB product line, all of the new Cadillacs, Pontiac Torrent, Pontiac Vibe, Corvette, and all the trucks and SUV's are all very nice vehicles. The next generation Camaro is an incredibly nice looking vehicle, too.

OP, the proposed deal is to allow for a significant minority interest in GM, not a controlling interest. It would be an alliance between GM, Renault, and Nissan. That would be an incredible team providing they could recognize and then leverage each other's strengths.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't put Saab in there so fast. GM ruined them by taking out the quirkiness and putting their cars on Subaru/Chevy Malibu platforms.
 
Chevy Doesnt have the Best Car Designs, But Man Do I know how to Work on the 3800 engine.

That is probely the best engine every made by a car manufacturer ever

So, Yes, I usually purchase one of my vehicles based on this.
 
Originally posted by: Zebo
Originally posted by: conjur
Sales <> good quality or good design


AOL has a large number of users.
American Idol pulls in huge ratings.
McDonalds has massive revenues.
Click to expand...
What do you drive?

And I'd normally agree with you but we're talking work trucks here.. people who use and abuse them day in and day out and keep on buying them so they must think the quality is there or they would'nt.
Click to expand...
Mazda 6i.

I will never own an American-made car again. I've had Ford, Chrysler, Dodge, Mercury but no cars were better than the Corolla my ex had and the Mazda I have now. I've rented many a GM vehicle on business and personal trips in the past and every one of them has sucked. Well, had a Cadillac once about 4-5 years ago and it at least had some ergonomic design behind it but it was still way too floaty of a vehicle (but not as bad as a Mercury Marquis or a new Buick Century). Jeeez...I feared for my safety in those POS.

GM cars still have that cheap plastic look in the interiors (faded grey plastic looks like crap) and the turn signal stalks from my dad's '81 Buick LeSabre wagon). Pontiacs have so much plastic body cladding that Michael Jackson would be jealous.
 
Originally posted by: 5150Joker
GM=junk. I'll stick to superior Japanese cars and trucks. The US is only good at making bombs.
Click to expand...

American Bombs are crap too. Sure, they'll last forever in storage, but use them and they fall apart in minutes if that long!! :| 😉
 
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: Zebo
Originally posted by: conjur
Sales <> good quality or good design


AOL has a large number of users.
American Idol pulls in huge ratings.
McDonalds has massive revenues.
Click to expand...
What do you drive?

And I'd normally agree with you but we're talking work trucks here.. people who use and abuse them day in and day out and keep on buying them so they must think the quality is there or they would'nt.
Click to expand...
Mazda 6i.

I will never own an American-made car again. I've had Ford, Chrysler, Dodge, Mercury but no cars were better than the Corolla my ex had and the Mazda I have now. I've rented many a GM vehicle on business and personal trips in the past and every one of them has sucked. Well, had a Cadillac once about 4-5 years ago and it at least had some ergonomic design behind it but it was still way too floaty of a vehicle (but not as bad as a Mercury Marquis or a new Buick Century). Jeeez...I feared for my safety in those POS.

GM cars still have that cheap plastic look in the interiors (faded grey plastic looks like crap) and the turn signal stalks from my dad's '81 Buick LeSabre wagon). Pontiacs have so much plastic body cladding that Michael Jackson would be jealous.
Click to expand...

The Mazda 3i uses a Ford platform and is built in America. It has a Mazda designed the engine though.
 
I don't have a 3i, though.


But, btw, that 3i platform is doing well for Mazda and Volvo and was developed by Volvo, not Ford
But Mazda, now linked by corporate ties to Ford Motor Company and Volvo of Sweden, borrows a new global platform developed by Volvo to underpin new compact-class vehicles. The series commenced in 2004 with Mazda3s 4-Door sedan but was soon followed by a Mazda3s 5-Door hatch.
Click to expand...

There is no Ford sold in the US based on that platform.
 
The 6 is built at a plant that Mazda bought from Ford and then Ford later bought back 50% of. It's a joint venture and follows Mazda QA guidelines.

Ford's quality guidelines pale compared to foreign makes. Back a few years when I was involved in setting up quality control software for paint depts at Ford plants around the world, the Mazda B pickup and the Nissan Villager minivan underwent more rigorous quality control tests and standards than their Ford counterparts.
 
Originally posted by: conjur
The 6 is built at a plant that Mazda bought from Ford and then Ford later bought back 50% of. It's a joint venture and follows Mazda QA guidelines.

Ford's quality guidelines pale compared to foreign makes. Back a few years when I was involved in setting up quality control software for paint depts at Ford plants around the world, the Mazda B pickup and the Nissan Villager minivan underwent more rigorous quality control tests and standards than their Ford counterparts.
Click to expand...



I dont see many mazda 6i's on the road. The car must be a model perferred by a small majority of the population.

Now Chevy trucks, I see them everywhere. 😉
 
All this talk of "I see more of this than that on the road..." etc. is moot in my opinion because just from casual observations I have noticed great variance on types of vehicles on the road in different parts of the country, even different parts of individual states.

Basically, in more rural areas, and "Red States", a much higher percentage of American brand vehicles and trucks. In more urban areas much higher proportion of imports. In more affluent areas, many more German "luxury" cars than in other places. I could go on and on, but does someone have any statistics or hard numbers to back up my observations? I don't know how to use Google.
 
Lol, I remember a Pontiac radio commercial I heard a few weeks ago...it's tagline was something like...
"The best domestic, 2 door, mid-sized Sedan, under $20,000 in it's class."
 
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: Zebo
Originally posted by: conjur
Sales <> good quality or good design


AOL has a large number of users.
American Idol pulls in huge ratings.
McDonalds has massive revenues.
Click to expand...
What do you drive?

And I'd normally agree with you but we're talking work trucks here.. people who use and abuse them day in and day out and keep on buying them so they must think the quality is there or they would'nt.
Click to expand...
Mazda 6i.

I will never own an American-made car again. I've had Ford, Chrysler, Dodge, Mercury but no cars were better than the Corolla my ex had and the Mazda I have now. I've rented many a GM vehicle on business and personal trips in the past and every one of them has sucked. Well, had a Cadillac once about 4-5 years ago and it at least had some ergonomic design behind it but it was still way too floaty of a vehicle (but not as bad as a Mercury Marquis or a new Buick Century). Jeeez...I feared for my safety in those POS.

GM cars still have that cheap plastic look in the interiors (faded grey plastic looks like crap) and the turn signal stalks from my dad's '81 Buick LeSabre wagon). Pontiacs have so much plastic body cladding that Michael Jackson would be jealous.
Click to expand...

You're gonna have to excuse Conjob, he's stuck in 2002 somewhere.........which currently produced Pontiacs are plastic clad? Oh, and I don't remember seeing a Century being sold by Buick for over 2 years now........

GM makes several vehicles that compete nicely against their foreign counterparts. Only the ignorant don't acknowledge that fact. That does not mean their entire lineup competes well.....because GM falls short in several key segments.

While Conjob is busy daydreaming of "new Buick Century"'s that don't exist, GM has manufactured several worthy vehicles:

Cadillac CTS, STS, SRX.
Buick Lucerne
Pontiac G6, Solstice
Chevrolet Tahoe, Cobalt, Corvette, Colorado, Silverado
Saab 9-3/Sportcombi, 9-5

This year will also bring several new competitors to the market that should stack up very well, like the Buick Enclave, Saturn Aura and Outlook.

 
Originally posted by: bctbct
Originally posted by: conjur
The 6 is built at a plant that Mazda bought from Ford and then Ford later bought back 50% of. It's a joint venture and follows Mazda QA guidelines.

Ford's quality guidelines pale compared to foreign makes. Back a few years when I was involved in setting up quality control software for paint depts at Ford plants around the world, the Mazda B pickup and the Nissan Villager minivan underwent more rigorous quality control tests and standards than their Ford counterparts.
Click to expand...
I dont see many mazda 6i's on the road. The car must be a model perferred by a small majority of the population.

Now Chevy trucks, I see them everywhere. 😉
Click to expand...
Might want to consider a trip to the optometrist. I see Mazda 6's all over the place.

And, I've said before in this thread, sales volume <> good quality/good design.
 
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